Ezekiel Elliott probably gonna get in trouble....

[NoDak]

Yes that's totally the same

Ever notice how both him and Jiggy use this as their go to move?

"So if..." or "So what you're saying is..." followed by some completely moronic comparison or statement they think is clever.

 

[skidadl]

My point was that it was incredibly stupid because our star player is exposing himself and the team to potential consequences. Maybe not now but if he keeps it up ESPN the tabloid and the commissioner will eventually have their way.

 

[E_D_Guapo]

Yep, because she showed my doing it herself that she was okay with being exposed. It's not like Zeke grabbed her titty, he just did the exact same thing she had already done to herself.

Yes she was out there having a good time and exposing herself and that is probably why she didn't make a big deal of it. At least not yet. That could certainly change now with all the attention. But you honestly think that it is OK for Zeke to reach over and pull her shirt down because she exposed herself earlier? Because it isn't. She can do so if she chooses but that does not give random standersby free license to pull down her shirt without permission. Her choice, not Zeke's.

 

[townsend]

Yes she was out there having a good time and exposing herself and that is probably why she didn't make a big deal of it. At least not yet. That could certainly change now with all the attention. But you honestly think that it is OK for Zeke to reach over and pull her shirt down because she exposed herself earlier? Because it isn't. She can do so if she chooses but that does not give random standersby free license to pull down her shirt without permission. Her choice, not Zeke's.

There's a not so subtle "Sluts deserve whatever happens to them." vibe I get from the argument that it's okay since she already showed 'em.

 

[E_D_Guapo]

There's a not so subtle "Sluts deserve whatever happens to them." vibe I get from the argument that it's okay since she already showed 'em.

She had it coming, bro.

I am not trying to make a mountain of a mole hill here. It was a party situation and as has been said, basically ended up a "no harm, no foul" situation" (so far) but that does not justify what Zeke did. It was not his place at all. The mindset that is is somehow fine because she flashed her tits earlier is totally flawed.

 

[Angrymesscan]

Yep, because she showed my doing it herself that she was okay with being exposed. It's not like Zeke grabbed her titty, he just did the exact same thing she had already done to herself.

So let's say a board member expresses interest in prostate stimulation, would that make it ok for you to finger him?

 

[townsend]

She had it coming, bro.

I am not trying to make a mountain of a mole hill here. It was a party situation and as has been said, basically a "no harm, no foul" situation" (so far) but that does not justify what Zeke did. It was not his place at all. The mindset that is is somehow fine because she flashed her tits earlier is pretty ridiculous.

I like to think Zeke read the vibe, and did something he was pretty sure the girl would be okay with. Which is still risky, like Skid said.

 

[skidadl]

So let's say a board member expresses interest in prostate stimulation, would that make it ok for you to finger him?

Exactly!

 

[E_D_Guapo]

I like to think Zeke read the vibe, and did something he was pretty sure the girl would be okay with. Which is still risky, like Skid said.

Could be. Definitely still risky. At minimum he caught her off guard, as is evident by her reaction.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

She had it coming, bro.

I am not trying to make a mountain of a mole hill here. It was a party situation and as has been said, basically ended up a "no harm, no foul" situation" (so far) but that does not justify what Zeke did. It was not his place at all. The mindset that is is somehow fine because she flashed her tits earlier is totally flawed.

And the defense that she wanted him to do it is unacceptable to you why? In order for something to be assault he had to know that the touching would be unwanted. So while showing your tits before hand doesn't give everyone permission to pull your top down, it certainly is evidence that goes in that favor of Zeke not knowing that his touching would be unwanted. Add in her pointing at her boobs and then pointing at Zeke and it's pretty open and shut. Frankly, all the evidence points to it being a consensual event but people like Bipo want to make more of it then that.

Again, it was stupid. But certainly not offensive.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

There's a not so subtle "Sluts deserve whatever happens to them." vibe I get from the argument that it's okay since she already showed 'em.

Consent is such a tricky thing. Afterall, I seriously doubt we all get verbal consent before we touch a woman. And hell even after, at any point during the process of you touching a woman she can revoke consent (Technically works with both genders but socially speaking we don't even give credence to the concept that a man must give consent).

So before we touch/kiss/or do whatever with a woman we follow visual ques to determine consent. A girl showing her boobs doesn't mean she automatically gives consent to continuing to show her boobs but certainly it would be part of an indication that she consents to it.

 

[townsend]

And the defense that she wanted him to do it is unacceptable to you why? In order for something to be assault he had to know that the touching would be unwanted. So while showing your tits before hand doesn't give everyone permission to pull your top down, it certainly is evidence that goes in that favor of Zeke not knowing that his touching would be unwanted. Add in her pointing at her boobs and then pointing at Zeke and it's pretty open and shut. Frankly, all the evidence points to it being a consensual event but people like Bipo want to make more of it then that.

Again, it was stupid. But certainly not offensive.

There's a difference between saying "she wanted him to do it, so it's okay." vs "She did it, so it's okay for him to do it."

Even if she had never shown her breasts, if her body language etc showed that she wanted him to do that, it would have been just as okay.

Likewise if she had been walking around topless all day and had just put her shirt back on, it wouldn't have been okay for someone to pull her shirt down, if she didn't want them to.

 

[Bluestar71]

Zeke probably needs a trip to Goodell's office to have the law laid down for him like Suh received a couple of years ago. I'm sure the Cowboys have spoken to him given his previous off field indiscretions like the weed store visit but he clearly still doesn't get it.

I'm not sure this incident warrants any real punishment but an embarrassing trip to Principal Goodell's office might accelerate the kid's growing up process a little. He's establishing a pattern of questionable behavior that's inevitably going to bite him (and the team) right in the ass if he doesn't mature out of his fratboy BS that can be funny when it's just locker room pranks but not too cute when women's clothes are being ripped off.

 

[E_D_Guapo]

And the defense that she wanted him to do it is unacceptable to you why? In order for something to be assault he had to know that the touching would be unwanted. So while showing your tits before hand doesn't give everyone permission to pull your top down, it certainly is evidence that goes in that favor of Zeke not knowing that his touching would be unwanted. Add in her pointing at her boobs and then pointing at Zeke and it's pretty open and shut. Frankly, all the evidence points to it being a consensual event but people like Bipo want to make more of it then that.

Again, it was stupid. But certainly not offensive.

You a lawyer or something man? I mean, not sure if you have ever mentioned it.

If she told him to do it then that is obviously a whole other story. If she did not he crossed a line. Is it a huge deal? Ends up no, probably not. But I am not talking about it in terms of how you think it would play out in court in front of a jury but in general terms of someone saying it's fine for Zeke to expose her because she exposed herself earlier.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Yes she was out there having a good time and exposing herself and that is probably why she didn't make a big deal of it. At least not yet. That could certainly change now with all the attention. But you honestly think that it is OK for Zeke to reach over and pull her shirt down because she exposed herself earlier? Because it isn't. She can do so if she chooses but that does not give random standersby free license to pull down her shirt without permission. Her choice, not Zeke's.

Right.

 

[dallen]

Granted. But there a lot of gray here. We can say with certainty that there's a difference between someone choosing to expose themselves and being exposed by someone else.

Let's say someone is feeling good, is comfortable flashing, gets creeped out or uncomfortable (let's say the McPoyle brothers show up with glasses of milk), and doesn't want to do it any more. Has she lost right to her autonomy/privacy because she was flashing before hand?

The only thing that matters is whether or not she was okay with Zeke doing it or not, she was, so no harm no foul.

From a legal perspective this is true. From a PR perspective it is still stupid as fuck

 

[ravidubey]

That's a kind of no harm no foul situation, but she could press charges and have a case for fondling or forced touching or whatever that state terms it.

It's up to her, though, and from her perspective it would probably be pointless.

It might though add to the evidence against Elliott in the case the NFL is currently still evaluating. The video could be used as further proof that Zeke has less respect for women in general.

Zeke just doesn't seem to get that there are cameras everywhere.

 

[townsend]

Consent is such a tricky thing. Afterall, I seriously doubt we all get verbal consent before we touch a woman. And hell even after, at any point during the process of you touching a woman she can revoke consent (Technically works with both genders but socially speaking we don't even give credence to the concept that a man must give consent).

So before we touch/kiss/or do whatever with a woman we follow visual ques to determine consent. A girl showing her boobs doesn't mean she automatically gives consent to continuing to show her boobs but certainly it would be part of an indication that she consents to it.

I've been in a lot of "no means no" vs "yes means yes" debates and it's pretty tough to suss out a common language. Especially since like 90% of the population is uncomfortable just saying what they want.

A mismatch between the way two people see consent can at best be intensely frustrating and at worst can end in one party believing that they have consent when they don't.

This is why what Zeke did was risky, because it is definitely possible to misread cues.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

If she told him to do it then that is obviously a whole other story. If she did not he crossed a line. Is it a huge deal? Ends up no, probably not. But I am not talking about it in terms of how you think it would play out in court in front of a jury but in general terms of someone saying it's fine for Zeke to expose her because she exposed herself earlier.

I guess I'm talking about how you can see her in the video literally pointing at both her boobs back and fourth and then pointing at Zeke next to her. If a girl was flashing her boobs and then started doing that next to me, I'd probably have the impression that she wants me to show her boobs. That's all I'm really saying. You have to take all of the circumstances together. Any one of those things by themselves wouldn't necessarily give you that indication. It's the totality of the circumstances.

 

[E_D_Guapo]

I guess I'm talking about how you can see her in the video literally pointing at both her boobs back and fourth and then pointing at Zeke next to her. If a girl was flashing her boobs and then started doing that next to me, I'd probably have the impression that she wants me to show her boobs. That's all I'm really saying. You have to take all of the circumstances together. Any one of those things by themselves wouldn't necessarily give you that indication. It's the totality of the circumstances.

I hear you and I don't blame you for thinking like a lawyer because that is what you do. We also don't know what she said to him and that would make a big difference. He definitely caught her off guard though and I think everyone agrees that it was not a good decision by Zeke regardless. Let's just hope nothing more comes of it