2023 Season | Divisional Round | Gameday Chatter Thread | 1/20-1/21/2024

[bbgun]

 

[Bill Shatner]

Remember when all those people said they were DONE WITH THE NFL!!!

 

[UncleMilti]

Of course. DCs know they have to stop (or limit) Mahomes, not Isiah Pacheko.

Pacheko has looked pretty damn good every time I’ve watched him. He carried twice to seal the game against Buffalo when everyone in the stadium knew he was getting the ball. I shudder to think if that’s the Cowboys Dak and Pollard in that position.

 

[data]

Can you add QBR?

Let me know if there's a better source than ESPN. They only provide per-game and per-season QBR. Formula's private, so can't provide a career postseason average.

MAHOMES PLAYOFF ESPN QBR
2018 (2 games) - 67.3
2019 (3) - 89.1
2020 (3) - 75.3
2021 (3) - 82.6
2022 (3) - 84.0
2023 (2) - 89.6

BRADY
2006 (3) - 83.0
2007 (3) - 72.6
2009 (1) - 9.1
2010 (1) - 16.2
2011 (3) - 80.8
2012 (2) - 70.5
2013 (1) - 69.4
2014 (3) - 83.3
2015 (2) - 70.7
2016 (3) - 75.8
2017 (3) - 85.9
2018 (3) - 66.9
2019 (1) - 40.8
2020 (4) - 74.2

RODGERS
2010 (4) - 85.2
2011 (1) - 65.4
2012 (2) - 76.6
2013 (1) - 66.9
2014 (2) - 67.8
2015 (2) - 74.6
2016 (3) - 83.2
2019 (2) - 63.1
2020 (2) - 75.2

BREES
2006 (2) - 68.7
2009 (3) - 87.9
2010 (1) - 70.5
2011 (2) - 84.5
2013 (2) - 50.4
2017 (2) - 81.9
2018 (2) - 57.6
2019 (1) - 49.3
2020 (2) - 37.5

PEYTON
2006 (4) - 71.9
2007 (1) - 90.3
2008 (1) - 55.7
2009 (3) - 90.4
2010 (1) - 70.0
2012 (1) - 56.1
2013 (3) - 79.0

 

[data]

Averaged playoff game over career prime:

MAHOMES, 16 games: 25/37 (67%) for 285 yards, 2.5 TD, 0.5 INT (106.7 QB Rating)

BREES, 15 games (2006-2019): 27/40 (67%) for 310 yards, 2.1 TD, 0.7 INT (99.5)

RODGERS, 17 games (2010-2019): 23/36 (64%) for 271 yards, 2.1 TB, 0.6 INT (98.5)

COLTS PEYTON, 17 games (2002-2010): 25/38 (65%) for 292 yards, 1.6 TD, 1.1 INT (90.4)

LATER PATRIOTS BRADY, 21 games (2011-2018): 28/43 (64%) for 322 yards, 2.0 TD, 0.9 INT (94.1)

 

[NoDak]

Again... These numbers for these players are nice, but compiled under completely different circumstances. Just look at the completion percentages from the different eras. Remember when Troy Aikman was completing 60% of his passes and people were lauding him for his accuracy? I do. And he did that in a downfield passing attack. Today that number is common place. If a QB doesn't at least get that, he's shit on.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Forecast looks like it's going to be in the 60s and sunny for several days before and after next Sunday.

Translation, Detroit has no chance.

Maybe maybe not. If Detroit follows the Green Bay approach they can win. Green Bay abandoned their game plan at the end of the game and allowed the Niners to use their system and that was a mistake.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Let me know if there's a better source than ESPN. They only provide per-game and per-season QBR. Formula's private, so can't provide a career postseason average.

MAHOMES PLAYOFF ESPN QBR
2018 (2 games) - 67.3
2019 (3) - 89.1
2020 (3) - 75.3
2021 (3) - 82.6
2022 (3) - 84.0
2023 (2) - 89.6

BRADY
2006 (3) - 83.0
2007 (3) - 72.6
2009 (1) - 9.1
2010 (1) - 16.2
2011 (3) - 80.8
2012 (2) - 70.5
2013 (1) - 69.4
2014 (3) - 83.3
2015 (2) - 70.7
2016 (3) - 75.8
2017 (3) - 85.9
2018 (3) - 66.9
2019 (1) - 40.8
2020 (4) - 74.2

RODGERS
2010 (4) - 85.2
2011 (1) - 65.4
2012 (2) - 76.6
2013 (1) - 66.9
2014 (2) - 67.8
2015 (2) - 74.6
2016 (3) - 83.2
2019 (2) - 63.1
2020 (2) - 75.2

BREES
2006 (2) - 68.7
2009 (3) - 87.9
2010 (1) - 70.5
2011 (2) - 84.5
2013 (2) - 50.4
2017 (2) - 81.9
2018 (2) - 57.6
2019 (1) - 49.3
2020 (2) - 37.5

PEYTON
2006 (4) - 71.9
2007 (1) - 90.3
2008 (1) - 55.7
2009 (3) - 90.4
2010 (1) - 70.0
2012 (1) - 56.1
2013 (3) - 79.0

I would say there is an additional factoring that needs to be recognized to this list and that is the games that the teams by passed by getting a bye. That should add something additional to the total games played in the playoffs. Kansas City would have had more playoff victories more than likely but they jumped in after first round. It’s pretty amazing what Andy Reed has done as a Coach with KC but his overall accomplishments surpass every one even Lombardy. Just my opinion.

 

[Smitty]

So glad you put Marino. I always thought he might be the best I ever saw, even though he didn't win it all. He was amazing.

Marino gets undersold these days.

 

[ravidubey]

Marino gets undersold these days.

He also gets oversold based on his early success, especially his 84 season. Looking back on it, I think folks realize now it was a bit of an aberration. Most defenses back then just weren’t built to stop a seriously loaded pass-first team where everyone went out in a pass pattern.

The WRs he had early on really made his rep, but as talented as he was, he never got to learn the full position— I.e. like when to run the ball, and how to rely on and benefit from a great defense.

He also wasn't the guy to scramble and keep a play alive and was better known for his fast release (for the time).

 

[data]

I would say there is an additional factoring that needs to be recognized to this list and that is the games that the teams by passed by getting a bye. That should add something additional to the total games played in the playoffs. Kansas City would have had more playoff victories more than likely but they jumped in after first round. It’s pretty amazing what Andy Reed has done as a Coach with KC but his overall accomplishments surpass every one even Lombardy. Just my opinion.

Andy Reid certainly is an all-timer considering his sustained success with two franchises. Only him and Shula?

Additionally, Reid had success with a third QB in Alex Smith, who, also four times failed reaching AFCC, may be the poster child for moving on from Dak Prescott.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Just for the smell of it, I heard Jimmy's buddy Pat Jones rank his top ten of all time. He's an older guy like Jimmy so he's seen everyone with his own eyes:

1. Staubach
2. Montana
3. Brady
4. Manning
5. Elway
6. Unitas
7. Young
8. Mahomes
9. Aikman
10. Lamar Jackson

I'm guessing Jimmy's experience with Marino soured him a bit on him, though he did say he personally favored mobile guys over statue types. Said Roger probably had the best intangibles of anyone on the list. The Jackson one doesn't make sense but the rest is pretty strong.

 

[ravidubey]

Just for the smell of it, I heard Jimmy's buddy Pat Jones rank his top ten of all time. He's an older guy like Jimmy so he's seen everyone with his own eyes:

1. Staubach
2. Montana
3. Brady
4. Manning
5. Elway
6. Unitas
7. Young
8. Mahomes
9. Aikman
10. Lamar Jackson

I'm guessing Jimmy's experience with Marino soured him a bit on him, though he did say he personally favored mobile guys over statue types. Said Roger probably had the best intangibles of anyone on the list. The Jackson one doesn't make sense but the rest is pretty strong.

Kind of biased, though. Bradshaw? Lamar over Rodgers and Brees? I guess any list like this is going to be biased

 

[data]

Again... These numbers for these players are nice, but compiled under completely different circumstances. Just look at the completion percentages from the different eras. Remember when Troy Aikman was completing 60% of his passes and people were lauding him for his accuracy? I do. And he did that in a downfield passing attack. Today that number is common place. If a QB doesn't at least get that, he's shit on.

Possibly lost in the DCC crash, but I remember doing a playoff comparison amongst the 80s and 90s QBs. Aikman, honed in on the five-year run, and late 80s Montana were in a tier by themselves. Distinguished from Elway, Marino, Favre, Kelly.

A quick look, Aikman’s numbers at least fit in with the 2010s QBs above, but as you said, stand out more because of era.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Kind of biased, though. Bradshaw? Lamar over Rodgers and Brees? I guess any list like this is going to be biased

Yep, he was a defensive coach and he's enamored with Jackson's incredible athleticism because it causes such problems.

I personally would never put Brees on a list like this. Rodgers, though... as weird and as big a d-bag as he is, I'd have to put him on there somewhere. In his prime he was unbelievable. I haven't seen many better than him when he was at his best.

 

[ravidubey]

One wonders how many of today’s QB’s would remain pros after taking a shot like Troy took in 1989.

I think that made it easier for him to get concussed throughout his career, especially in the 1993 NFCC.

Brady was great at avoiding punishment, but he rarely faced defenses the caliber of the Giants or Eagles that Troy and Montana faced. The Giants KO’d Montana twice in the playoffs. The Eagles DL broke Troy in 1990. They ended Joe Theismann’s career, and crushed his successor Jay Schroeder’s shoulder, reducing his effectiveness.

The 1970’s and 1980’s were particularly brutal. Staubach and Bradshaw were routinely knocked out of games.

Quarterbacks don’t fear defenses anymore, and that is a huge, huge difference that both Free Agency/Salary Cap and continuous rules changes have made.

 

[data]

One knock against Aikman if you’re nit-picking amongst the greats, is the shorter span of his prime, for lack of better word. Elway, Montana, Favre, Marino were all productive well into 30s.

 

[ravidubey]

One knock against Aikman if you’re nit-picking amongst the greats, is the shorter span of his prime, for lack of better word. Elway, Montana, Favre, Marino were all productive well into 30s.

I think Troy could have been had he had a better GM to better develop his defense and get him supporting and also not played on the hard Texas Stadium and NFC East artificial surfaces.

 

[data]

I personally would never put Brees on a list like this. Rodgers, though... as weird and as big a d-bag as he is, I'd have to put him on there somewhere. In his prime he was unbelievable. I haven't seen many better than him when he was at his best.

I don’t know how credible it is, but lots of Packers fans downgrade Rodgers post-Super Bowl as a playoff choker.

 

[data]

I think Troy could have been had he had a better GM to better develop his defense and get him supporting and also not played on the hard Texas Stadium and NFC East artificial surfaces.

Don’t open that can. Walking right by…