2023 Season | Divisional Round | Gameday Chatter Thread | 1/20-1/21/2024

[Chocolate Lab]

I don’t know how credible it is, but lots of Packers fans downgrade Rodgers post-Super Bowl as a playoff choker.

Maybe, but it seemed to me that in a lot of his playoff games he had the lesser talent on his team.

 

[data]

One wonders how many of today’s QB’s would remain pros after taking a shot like Troy took in 1989.

I think that made it easier for him to get concussed throughout his career, especially in the 1993 NFCC.

Brady was great at avoiding punishment, but he rarely faced defenses the caliber of the Giants or Eagles that Troy and Montana faced. The Giants KO’d Montana twice in the playoffs. The Eagles DL broke Troy in 1990. They ended Joe Theismann’s career, and crushed his successor Jay Schroeder’s shoulder, reducing his effectiveness.

The 1970’s and 1980’s were particularly brutal. Staubach and Bradshaw were routinely knocked out of games.

Quarterbacks don’t fear defenses anymore, and that is a huge, huge difference that both Free Agency/Salary Cap and continuous rules changes have made.

I agree with all that, but it’s not automatic that every single one of those older greats would translate to todays game. Sounds stupid, but there’s a lot more bullshit/distractions you have to deal with today. Also, the game is more cerebral today and some may not be able to handle it. With free agency, sustaining high performance with new teammates.

 

[NoDak]

I agree with all that, but it’s not automatic that every single one of those older greats would translate to todays game. Sounds stupid, but there’s a lot more bullshit/distractions you have to deal with today. Also, the game is more cerebral today and some may not be able to handle it.

How so? QBs used to call their own plays. Not sure how much more cerebral you'd need to be.

 

[data]

How so? QBs used to call their own plays. Not sure how much more cerebral you'd need to be.

Lot more cat & mouse at the LOS and post-snap that comes after a play is called. A slant isn't just a slant, but making post-snap route adjustments based on coverage. Playbooks are larger than ever. Defenses are more active at LOS, disguising coverages/schemes and adjusting to what offense shows. The game is faster today. During the draft, the concern for college-to-pros transition in this regard has increased over the decades.

 

[L.T. Fan]

One wonders how many of today’s QB’s would remain pros after taking a shot like Troy took in 1989.

I think that made it easier for him to get concussed throughout his career, especially in the 1993 NFCC.

Brady was great at avoiding punishment, but he rarely faced defenses the caliber of the Giants or Eagles that Troy and Montana faced. The Giants KO’d Montana twice in the playoffs. The Eagles DL broke Troy in 1990. They ended Joe Theismann’s career, and crushed his successor Jay Schroeder’s shoulder, reducing his effectiveness.

The 1970’s and 1980’s were particularly brutal. Staubach and Bradshaw were routinely knocked out of games.

Quarterbacks don’t fear defenses anymore, and that is a huge, huge difference that both Free Agency/Salary Cap and continuous rules changes have made.

I’m not sure the 70s and 80s were more brutal. Today’s defensive players are larger, faster and stronger moreso than ever. They are somewhat curtailed by penalization standards now but it doesn’t keep the QBs from being popped fairly often.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Just for the smell of it, I heard Jimmy's buddy Pat Jones rank his top ten of all time. He's an older guy like Jimmy so he's seen everyone with his own eyes:

1. Staubach
2. Montana
3. Brady
4. Manning
5. Elway
6. Unitas
7. Young
8. Mahomes
9. Aikman
10. Lamar Jackson

I'm guessing Jimmy's experience with Marino soured him a bit on him, though he did say he personally favored mobile guys over statue types. Said Roger probably had the best intangibles of anyone on the list. The Jackson one doesn't make sense but the rest is pretty strong.

I think Mahomes will have a lot more of a football career to possibly eclipse all of the above. His career is virtually a trip to the SB almost every year and as long as Andy Reid continues to coach there this will probably continhe.

 

[data]

I’m not sure the 70s and 80s were more brutal. Today’s defensive players are larger, faster and stronger moreso than ever. They are somewhat curtailed by penalization standards now but it doesn’t keep the QBs from being popped fairly often.

It's an interesting conversation. Medicine's better now. Safety equipment better today. Less practice, but more games. Players bigger now. Normal hits more forceful, but vicious hits legislated out.

Maybe the only credible measurement is comparing career longevity.

 

[data]

I think Mahomes will have a lot more of a football career to possibly eclipse all of the above. His career is virtually a trip to the SB almost every year and as long as Andy Reid continues to coach there this will probably continhe.

Josh Allen is an interesting case to see where his legacy ends up. All the stats to measure up, but he/team can't get over the hump.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I don't see how people can claim it isn't massively easier to play QB today. Not only is the QB pampered, the receivers are also.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I don't see how people can claim it isn't massively easier to play QB today. Not only is the QB pampered, the receivers are also.

It is massively easier. I don't even think that's a debatable issue. It's a lot easier for receivers which in turn makes it easier for QBs to put up the monster stats that they do. You just simply can't compare stats of the older era's to stats of todays QBs.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Josh Allen is an interesting case to see where his legacy ends up. All the stats to measure up, but he/team can't get over the hump.

As a rule it isn’t a good idea to try to measure a Quarterback as this or that because the performances are credited as a victory for the QB but the team support and performances are the actual game determination. QB analysis does and should rest with their statistical analysis. This best measures their contribution to the games outcome. This is because any play that is successful in the QB generated plays have most of their weight riding on the execution by them mainly in the passing game. Still the games success rests on the scoreboard which doesn’t measure running plays by themselves or passing plays by themselves rather by every aspect of the game in total including turn overs and field goals to name a few.

 

[Texas Ace]

I don’t know how credible it is, but lots of Packers fans downgrade Rodgers post-Super Bowl as a playoff choker.

Yup, that's right.

 

[Genghis Khan]

Just for the smell of it, I heard Jimmy's buddy Pat Jones rank his top ten of all time. He's an older guy like Jimmy so he's seen everyone with his own eyes:

1. Staubach
2. Montana
3. Brady
4. Manning
5. Elway
6. Unitas
7. Young
8. Mahomes
9. Aikman
10. Lamar Jackson

I'm guessing Jimmy's experience with Marino soured him a bit on him, though he did say he personally favored mobile guys over statue types. Said Roger probably had the best intangibles of anyone on the list. The Jackson one doesn't make sense but the rest is pretty strong.

Jackson top 10 all time is absurd.

I'm also not a fan of Young in the top 10.

 

[Genghis Khan]

Josh Allen is an interesting case to see where his legacy ends up. All the stats to measure up, but he/team can't get over the hump.

I wonder if he can crack the top 100.

I doubt it.

 

[NoDak]

I’m not sure the 70s and 80s were more brutal. Today’s defensive players are larger, faster and stronger moreso than ever. They are somewhat curtailed by penalization standards now but it doesn’t keep the QBs from being popped fairly often.

They are not being popped at all like they used to be. Go watch a clip of Lawrence Taylor or Randy White taking the head off of a QB with a blindside hit. Hell, the NFL used to make money off hits like that. NFL Greatest Hits was a must have video at the end of each year.

The game as a whole was a lot more brutal. WRs used to fear going over the middle because of guys like Ronnie Lott. Olinemen hated going up against guys like Deacon Jones because of his power and head slap. And there are numerous more examples of how the game used to be so much more violent.

The NFL didn't change the rules because they cared about these guys. They changed the rules because salaries got so high, and they didn't want to see their star QBs sitting on the sidelines with a blank stare on their faces.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Jackson top 10 all time is absurd.

I'm also not a fan of Young in the top 10.

Agree on both.

 

[NoDak]

I don't see how people can claim it isn't massively easier to play QB today. Not only is the QB pampered, the receivers are also.

Absolutely, 100% true.

 

[Cotton]

They are not being popped at all like they used to be. Go watch a clip of Lawrence Taylor or Randy White taking the head off of a QB with a blindside hit. Hell, the NFL used to make money off hits like that. NFL Greatest Hits was a must have video at the end of each year.

The game as a whole was a lot more brutal. WRs used to fear going over the middle because of guys like Ronnie Lott. Olinemen hated going up against guys like Deacon Jones because of his power and head slap. And there are numerous more examples of how the game used to be so much more violent.

The NFL didn't change the rules because they cared about these guys. They changed the rules because salaries got so high, and they didn't want to see their star QBs sitting on the sidelines with a blank stare on their faces.

Why do you do this to yourself?

 

[bbgun]

Back in the day, you could land on on Staubach or Bradshaw with your full body weight and then some. The weird thing is that despite this disadvantage, they seemed more durable back then. This past season, 60+ different qbs must’ve started games due to injuries at the position (or ineptitude). They’re protected like never before, but they have a hard time staying on the field.

 

[NoDak]

Why do you do this to yourself?

Glutton for punishment, I guess.