Dak Watch Thread...

[Smitty]

Calm down and breath.

I was merely stating that it was silly for anyone to think that Dak would settle for $20 million per year when the market trend showed that it was more likely that he'd get a deal closer to the $30 million mark.

I actually agree with you. I don't think he deserves to be the highest paid player in the sport, even if it is only for a year or two until the next QB deal is due. I've also pointed out how NFL owners have foolishly fallen into this idiotic pattern of over-paying QBs simply because their contracts "are next". Resume should trump timing when it comes to these deals. But owners have allowed themselves to be painted into a corner on this issue and short of a Kaepernick level of collusion, I don't know how they're going to break the cycle.

Although, if you look at MLB, the baseball owners have been flirting with that collusion line the past couple of years. Lots of All-Star caliber players weren't being signed until a week or so before spring training because teams were balking at signing the players to the high salaries that the players had grown accustomed to. And you can't tell me that it was a coincidence that 30 teams all decided at once to practice fiscal responsibility.

Maybe that's an option for NFL owners. Obviously it's illegal but I wouldn't put it past them.

This cannot happen without a work stoppage, but for as much as I rail against the max contract in the NBA because it eliminates the financial incentive of top players to sign with different teams, and instead creates incentive to make money via sponsorships through WINNING, which comes with taking small discounts in their NBA contracts to team up with other stars...

... I would be willing to see what a max-contract situation would look like in the NFL. I just hate that these players continue to push the envelope higher and higher every year. It's not that I don't think they are entitled to high compensation. What I hate is the cap-wrecking ramifications of AVERAGE to marginally ABOVE-AVERAGE players like Dak Prescott and their agents thinking they are failing unless each of them sets the market with their new contracts.

Dak, you're just not a top 5 QB. What is wrong with him taking top 10 QB money? It's still 28 million fucking dollars a year.

There needs to be a resolution to this.

 

[1bigfan13]

You do remember the purgatory we went through between Aikman and Romo, right? Finding a good QB is not nearly as easy as you are implying here. Teams swing and miss every year. Often with high draft picks and/or high dollars.

And don't forget that we accidentally fell into Romo and Dak.

We were hell bent on drafting guys like Paxton Lynch and Connor Cook and pretty much "settled" for Dak.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I also think smitty is assuming this news means Dak is going to get around 38/year, in all likelihood I think it's more around 35-36 and this "highest paid player in the league" is based on guaranteed money or that Wilson's extension, which averaged 35/year, was tacked on to his existing deal which suppressed the AAV.

Yeah I have no doubt the Cowboys can get this done at 35 mil a year over 4 years. No doubt in my mind at all. The problem is Dallas wants more than 4 years. And because that average will be low 4 years from now, Dallas is going to have to pay a premium for the extra years. Guys like Goff, Wentz and Wilson I believe all got 4 year deals. You want a 6 or 7 year deal it's just going to have a higher average. That's how life is with a cap going up every year.

 

[Stasheroo]

That's sort of where I'm at. This team isn't in cap trouble at all and is instead wasting tons of money on aging players who aren't any good. Yet we want to try and pinch pennies on Dak like it will make a difference. We are still going to hold on to the Crawfords of this world for 8 mil. And then people are going to bitch that we don't have an extra 5 mil because Dak didn't a lower amount. In the end the results will be the same for the Cowboys either way. The only person hurt is Jerry Jones who has to spend the extra 5 mil and maybe has to make a decision on a shitty old player like Crawford.

You have to love that Gerald McCoy is somehow making less than Crawford. Let that sink in for a minute.

It's asinine is what it is. And then these goofs will penny pinch left and right with any free agents that they do talk to! And to the best of my knowledge, they're still haggling over the Poe deal.

I give them credit for some things, like that aforementioned McCoy deal, but other deals, they have their heads lodged up their asses.

 

[Stasheroo]

Those are all dumb reasons - though they could very well be the reasons the team is doing this.

The Cowboys are never gonna become the Bengals or Cardinals. The brand is too popular and the pockets too deep.

Why everyone has this serial fear of tanking is beyond me.

This contract is bad for us. Better to lose Dak for nothing and rebuild again. It would be quick because all you really need is a good QB, there are pieces in place here.

But Jerry doesn't want to hit the pause button for 2 years cause he could die any time.

Talk about 'dumb reasons', this takes the cake.

 

[Smitty]

I forgot to respond to this point specifically.

QBs like Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, and Goff already had contracts that were well north of $30 million....so no, I didn't "just happen to think" that giving Dak a $30 million dollar contract would make him the highest paid QB in the league.



$30 million was a number that I thought would be fair based on his resume and comparable QBs.

Right, that's my point.

A year ago we were all saying much less than $30 should get the deal done. Then this year he has a pretty good year and his price obviously goes up.

The correct number, based on comps, should be $30m or so. My point is, you thought $30m was good based on other numbers. It wasn't your belief that he should be the highest paid QB and that $30m was what would make him highest paid. Your belief is he should be paid less than Rodgers and Wilson and that number should come in around $30m.

So when you made your initial projections, you say "and those ended up being wrong," I don't agree - I think those numbers are right. If Prescott was asking for $100m a season, that doesn't make those numbers any more wrong.

$30m or so is the correct number. Prescott asking for $40 is only relevant if Jerry is willing to give it to him.

 

[Stasheroo]

And don't forget that we accidentally fell into Romo and Dak.

We were hell bent on drafting guys like Paxton Lynch and Connor Cook and pretty much "settled" for Dak.

But some fans still think they just 'grow on trees'.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

This cannot happen without a work stoppage, but for as much as I rail against the max contract in the NBA because it eliminates the financial incentive of top players to sign with different teams, and instead creates incentive to make money via sponsorships through WINNING, which comes with taking small discounts in their NBA contracts to team up with other stars...

... I would be willing to see what a max-contract situation would look like in the NFL. I just hate that these players continue to push the envelope higher and higher every year. It's not that I don't think they are entitled to high compensation. What I hate is the cap-wrecking ramifications of AVERAGE to marginally ABOVE-AVERAGE players like Dak Prescott and their agents thinking they are failing unless each of them sets the market with their new contracts.

Dak, you're just not a top 5 QB. What is wrong with him taking top 10 QB money? It's still 28 million fucking dollars a year.

There needs to be a resolution to this.

A little off topic but has that really worked in the NBA? Sure seems like their top stars are jumping ship every year to another team. And it's all sort of made possible by the max contract. Afterall if three star players can pick a destination and all go there it's pretty simple to do. I actually think the NFL franchise tag does a much better job of alleviating star players from jumping ship. The way the NBA does it has kind of turned into garbage in my opinion. Creates too many super teams randomly when free agency hits.

 

[Smitty]

You do remember the purgatory we went through between Aikman and Romo, right? Finding a good QB is not nearly as easy as you are implying here. Teams swing and miss every year. Often with high draft picks and/or high dollars.

The purgatory we went through between Aikman and Romo was a grand total of 5 seasons and could have been less if Parcells didn't have an ancient veteran fetish, or if we had been aggressive and say, traded up for a QB like Brees instead of sitting put and being passive and then having to select Quincy Carter.

The purgatory you are locking yourselves into with Dak could be similar in length.

Point is, if you are aggressive in chasing a QB you identify as a good one, your chances of missing are real, but shouldn't be so great a risk as to scare you off.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Right, that's my point.

A year ago we were all saying much less than $30 should get the deal done. Then this year he has a pretty good year and his price obviously goes up.

Well than a year ago "we all" were idiots. Carson Wentz got 32 mil a year. And you thought he would take far less than 30? That wasn't realistic at all. Dak would have easily cost 30-32 last year but a lot of people here wanted to wait and show them more. He showed them more and the price went up. Now everyone wants to go back to the numbers before last year. That's just not how it works.

 

[Texas Ace]

Sounds like people are catching on that saving 3 million a year on Dak isn't going to change shit because ultimately it'll just result in another Olawale or two.

Yeah, I think had the Cowboys spent some big money on some big time players in this FA, then I would continue to be steadfast in my belief that the Cowboys should let him play this year under the tag.

But being as it I'm more convinced than ever that the Stephen Jones approach to FA is to find bargain prices for players who USED to be pro bowl talents, then it doesn't really matter to me anymore if they give Dak a few more million.

It's not going to keep them from doing what they want to do in regards to other contracts.

 

[1bigfan13]

Yeah I have no doubt the Cowboys can get this done at 35 mil a year over 4 years. No doubt in my mind at all. The problem is Dallas wants more than 4 years.

If I were in their shoes I'd settle for the 4 year deal and start looking for his replacement via the draft in year 3 of that deal.

Be open to using a 2nd or 3rd round pick on a QB in the 2022 draft.

I'd do my best to not put myself in a position of desperation where he's my one and only option at the QB position.

 

[Smitty]

A little off topic but has that really worked in the NBA? Sure seems like their top stars are jumping ship every year to another team. And it's all sort of made possible by the max contract. Afterall if three star players can pick a destination and all go there it's pretty simple to do. I actually think the NFL franchise tag does a much better job of alleviating star players from jumping ship. The way the NBA does it has kind of turned into garbage in my opinion. Creates too many super teams randomly when free agency hits.

Well, that's what I was saying. The max contract in the NBA incentivizes stars to team up with each other. If Chris Bosh can only be offered $30m a year from Toronto, Chicago, and Miami, well, hell, why wouldn't he just take $25m to go to Miami and play with Wade and Lebron?

But if there was no max contract, Toronto counters Miami's offer with $70m a year. That is enough to make Bosh stay.

But the NBA is susceptible to this problem because one player makes or breaks a team like no other sport.

The NFL, you could not have a team paying $120m a year of a $150m cap to one or two players. Too much other impact from too many other players. If you institute a max cap of $30m in the NFL, the most players who can team up at that max number are still just like.... two or three. Too little impact to create "superteams."

 

[Cowboysrock55]

If I were in their shoes I'd settle for the 4 year deal and start looking for his replacement via the draft in year 3 of that deal.

Be open to using a 2nd or 3rd round pick on a QB in the 2022 draft.

I'd do my best to not put myself in a position of desperation where he's my one and only option at the QB position.

And I think that's totally reasonable. Nothing wrong with drafting a strong backup and at worst having a chip to flip like a Jimmy Garrapolo.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Well, that's what I was saying. The max contract in the NBA incentivizes stars to team up with each other. If Chris Bosh can only be offered $30m a year from Toronto, Chicago, and Miami, well, hell, why wouldn't he just take $25m to go to Miami and play with Wade and Lebron?

But if there was no max contract, Toronto counters Miami's offer with $70m a year. That is enough to make Bosh stay.

But the NBA is susceptible to this problem because one player makes or breaks a team like no other sport.

The NFL, you could not have a team paying $120m a year of a $150m cap to one or two players. Too much other impact from too many other players. If you institute a max cap of $30m in the NFL, the most players who can team up at that max number are still just like.... two or three. Too little impact to create "superteams."

So you would rather an NFL where top players switch teams every year? I don't want to be anything like the NBA in that aspect.

 

[Texas Ace]

If I were in their shoes I'd settle for the 4 year deal and start looking for his replacement via the draft in year 3 of that deal.

Be open to using a 2nd or 3rd round pick on a QB in the 2022 draft.

I'd do my best to not put myself in a position of desperation where he's my one and only option at the QB position.

Agreed.

That is exactly what they should do. Hell, I would not be opposed to drafting a promising prospect in round 2 in any of the upcoming drafts.

 

[Smitty]

Well than a year ago "we all" were idiots. Carson Wentz got 32 mil a year. And you thought he would take far less than 30? That wasn't realistic at all. Dak would have easily cost 30-32 last year but a lot of people here wanted to wait and show them more. He showed them more and the price went up. Now everyone wants to go back to the numbers before last year. That's just not how it works.

The point isn't that we should offer $20m and tell him to take it or leave it. The point is that many people were saying they were ok with a contract extension that came in under market value.

Now everyone seems ok with making him the highest paid player in football.

I'm just not.

That's only "how it works" if a dumb team hands out a dumb contract.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

The point isn't that we should offer $20m and tell him to take it or leave it. The point is that many people were saying they were ok with a contract extension that came in under market value.

Now everyone seems ok with making him the highest paid player in football.

I'm just not.

That's only "how it works" if a dumb team hands out a dumb contract.

But if we handed him a contract extension last year you know we wouldn't have saved like 30 mil against the cap this past season right?

 

[NoDak]

The point isn't that we should offer $20m and tell him to take it or leave it. The point is that many people were saying they were ok with a contract extension that came in under market value.

Now everyone seems ok with making him the highest paid player in football.

I'm just not.

That's only "how it works" if a dumb team hands out a dumb contract.

Yeah, and if we had offered him 20 and told him to take it or leave it, he obviously leaves it and signs elsewhere. And the entire league, including our own players and future possible free agents see that and think "WTF are they doing?!? This team obviously cares more about saving money rather than winning."

And we begin our slide down into the dregs with the Skins.

 

[Smitty]

So you would rather an NFL where top players switch teams every year? I don't want to be anything like the NBA in that aspect.

No, of course not. I'm saying I don't think introducing a max contract would create the same jumping ship effect in the NFL as it has the NBA. I acknowledge in the NBA that happens because players have no incentive to stay (in fact, they have the incentive to team up because the money is the same), and the teams have the incentive to hand out max contracts like candy because they are aware that 1 or 2 players is all you need for a playoff or championship caliber team sometimes. Ie, Kawhi Leonard and Paul George, then fill in the roster around then with cheaper vets.

In the NFL, if a team hands out three max contracts they will still not have more talent than a lot of other teams, it's of no benefit to them. Therefore I'm willing to see how it would play out in the NFL... I don't think you'd see the same phenomenon as the NBA.