2021 NFL Draft Thread

[Cotton]

especially if we give JSmith his walking papers

You gonna take that, @jsmith6919?

 

[Rev]

 

[Cowboysrock55]

He will, QB's always do, although Parsons is a better prospect than Okudah and Thomas who both went top 5 last year, and probably on par with Derrick Brown and Isaiah Simmons, although given their positions Brown clearly would've been preferable.

He's a perfectly fine top 5 caliber prospect, just not at a position of extreme need, but LB is definitely a position that could use upgrading.

Yeah I think I need to watch more of Parsons. I don't know that he is the caliber of player Roquan was in college for example. That guy was sick. Of course Parsons is difficult because I have to watch last years games to see him play.

I think I've been swayed a bit by the fact that LBer really isn't that important of a position. Like RB they are plentiful and more a result of the play around them.

I may lean towards corner over LBer. Even though I know that will get gasps in here. There are legit corners in this draft with size and ball skills. Not even sure which is my favorite yet. Ideally I trade down to someone wanting the BYU QB though. Or the NDSU QB.

 

[Cotton]

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Looks big, strong and physical for a corner. A little too physical at times from what I could see. Seems like some of that stuff would be penalties in the NFL. I could see some concern over his quick twitch ability as a corner though. I'm not sure he really has that burst that you want to see. Seems like he would rather maul a receiver than to undercut a pass and pick it off.

I went and watched some of Farley's highlights. I really like the way the guy plays. He has some technique that looks a little goofy to me. He gets really low in his crouch when he starts plays. Seems like it's wrong and delays him a second but the results are excellent. He doesn't always look for the ball but the guy looks to play faster and more athletic. Also, not to be offensive but I was shocked that Farley almost looks like a white man playing corner. He isn't but it's not something one is used to seeing.

Anyway, both would be really good corners I think. Very physical guys. These aren't your typical 4.3 forty but 5'11" 190 pound corners. These are guys that you're going to want beating up on corners at the line of scrimmage. I think Surtain in off coverage would get beat on inside stuff too often just because he doesn't seem to have that quick break. I see more ability in Farley in that capacity. But Surtain isn't going to be bullied by any physical receivers either.

 

[Cotton]

Looks big, strong and physical for a corner. A little too physical at times from what I could see. Seems like some of that stuff would be penalties in the NFL. I could see some concern over his quick twitch ability as a corner though. I'm not sure he really has that burst that you want to see. Seems like he would rather maul a receiver than to undercut a pass and pick it off.

I said it once before and I will say it again, I don't think Surtain amounts to anything at the next level. I don't think he has the speed to keep up with NFL receivers.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I said it once before and I will say it again, I don't think Surtain amounts to anything at the next level. I don't think he has the speed to keep up with NFL receivers.

I think it depends where he goes. I think in the right system he could look excellent. But in the wrong system I think he could look like shit. Probably true of a lot of NFL players but I wouldn't want the guy playing off coverage much. Not sure that's what you want in a top 10 draft pick at corner.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

 

[bbgun]

 

[Simpleton]

Yeah I think I need to watch more of Parsons. I don't know that he is the caliber of player Roquan was in college for example. That guy was sick. Of course Parsons is difficult because I have to watch last years games to see him play.

I think I've been swayed a bit by the fact that LBer really isn't that important of a position. Like RB they are plentiful and more a result of the play around them.

I may lean towards corner over LBer. Even though I know that will get gasps in here. There are legit corners in this draft with size and ball skills. Not even sure which is my favorite yet. Ideally I trade down to someone wanting the BYU QB though. Or the NDSU QB.

As far as positional value, I'd much rather have the next Bobby Wagner or Luke Kuechly than Jalen Ramsey or Stephon Gilmore and in general I think the importance of off-ball LB's is a bit undervalued. The Seahawks chose to build their defense around Wagner/Wright when it came time to make the decision on guys like Sherman/Thomas, the best player on the Colts defense is Darius Leonard, the Steelers gave up big time draft capital to move up for Devin Bush and have mostly gone cheap at CB, Tampa's defense is largely built around Devin White/Lavonte David in the middle, the excellent Vikings defenses over the last few years have had Kendricks/Barr in the middle, and so forth.

Obviously DL is the number one priority when building a defense but if we're talking off-ball LB vs. CB vs. safety, I don't think it's clear one way or the other and if anything I might put an elite off-ball LB like a Wagner over an elite CB or safety like a Ramsey or Jamal Adams.

I haven't dug in real deep yet on Surtain and Farley so I don't have a fully formed opinion of them vs. Parsons, but first impressions are that Parsons is at least equal as a prospect and most likely better. I'm keeping an open mind on both but Surtain scares me if we're talking a top 5 pick, he doesn't seem to be the most explosive athlete and he got roasted for what should've been a 60-yard TD against Auburn where the WR was open by 5 yards but dropped a ball that hit him right in the hands.

And you definitely need to watch more of Parsons, he's for sure on Smith's level but about 15-20 lbs heavier and just as fast sideline to sideline. It just doesn't feel the same with these guys who opted out because we aren't seeing it play out live in real time right now.

 

[Simpleton]

Yea, I've been watching this guy a bit over the last week or so and if we somehow ended up winning the division he'd be one of my top targets at 19. Heck, even if we trade down into the 12-15 range I might still consider him heavily.

I watched their entire game against Oklahoma St. and he was really impressive, and the guy has 4 INT's at 6-3/6-4, 250-260 lbs with legit sideline to sideline speed.

I think the number one argument against taking Parsons at 4 or 5 or whatever is that there is some pretty solid depth at off-ball LB where we might be able to get a Nick Bolton or this guy at the top of the 2nd. Even if that's the case though I think you need to do everything you can to trade down instead of taking a CB at 4.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

As far as positional value, I'd much rather have the next Bobby Wagner or Luke Kuechly than Jalen Ramsey or Stephon Gilmore and in general I think the importance of off-ball LB's is a bit undervalued. The Seahawks chose to build their defense around Wagner/Wright when it came time to make the decision on guys like Sherman/Thomas, the best player on the Colts defense is Darius Leonard, the Steelers gave up big time draft capital to move up for Devin Bush and have mostly gone cheap at CB, Tampa's defense is largely built around Devin White/Lavonte David in the middle, the excellent Vikings defenses over the last few years have had Kendricks/Barr in the middle, and so forth.

I'm not sure the Seahawks are a great example as their defense has been utter shit without the secondary guys.

I wish I could find it but I was reading the other day that off the ball LBers have one of the lowest correlations to winning football games in the NFL. Would be interesting to see how they came up with a stat like that. But in general I just think off the ball LBers are easier to find and largely a product of the guys playing in front of them. They are the RB of the defense to me. Provide a great line in front of them (ala the Steelers) and they will look awesome. Provide them shit in front of them, and they will struggle.

I'm not sure I'd put LBer as a priority over corner. I'd take either one even though it's not really what I want. I think a great LBer isn't going to help our pass defense be any less shitty. Just like a corner isn't going to make our run defense any less shitty. Really to me it comes down to, can I get a better corner or linebacker with our pick. And what are the odds of getting a good player at the other position later in the draft. I just think it's easier to find exceptional LBers outside the first round and more difficult to find shutdown corners. Not really a hard and fast rule obviously.

Now Parsons may just be better than Farley for example. If that's the case it's not really a discussion for me. Take the better player and find a corner later. But I like what I have seen from Farley and probably need to watch more Parsons. I'll have a better opinion then.

 

[1bigfan13]

I think I've been swayed a bit by the fact that LBer really isn't that important of a position. Like RB they are plentiful and more a result of the play around them.

This is exactly why I'd be disappointed with taking Parsons in the top 5. I believe that he's going to be a good pro but the impact on wins and losses just isn't there to justify drafting him in the top 5.

 

[Simpleton]

I'm not sure the Seahawks are a great example as their defense has been utter shit without the secondary guys.

I wish I could find it but I was reading the other day that off the ball LBers have one of the lowest correlations to winning football games in the NFL. Would be interesting to see how they came up with a stat like that. But in general I just think off the ball LBers are easier to find and largely a product of the guys playing in front of them. They are the RB of the defense to me. Provide a great line in front of them (ala the Steelers) and they will look awesome. Provide them shit in front of them, and they will struggle.

I'm not sure I'd put LBer as a priority over corner. I'd take either one even though it's not really what I want. I think a great LBer isn't going to help our pass defense be any less shitty. Just like a corner isn't going to make our run defense any less shitty. Really to me it comes down to, can I get a better corner or linebacker with our pick. And what are the odds of getting a good player at the other position later in the draft. I just think it's easier to find exceptional LBers outside the first round and more difficult to find shutdown corners. Not really a hard and fast rule obviously.

Now Parsons may just be better than Farley for example. If that's the case it's not really a discussion for me. Take the better player and find a corner later. But I like what I have seen from Farley and probably need to watch more Parsons. I'll have a better opinion then.

Yea I'm going BPA no matter what, excluding the obvious positions. If that's a CB, fine, if it's LB, fine, although if we're picking 4 I'm sure I'll prefer to trade down almost no matter what's available.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Quick question, is there a Tuesday game or not. I can’tt seem to find an answer to the make up games.

 

[Cotton]

Quick question, is there a Tuesday game or not. I can’tt seem to find an answer to the make up games.

If you mean the Ravens/Steelers game, it's on Wednesday now... for now.

 

[jsmith6919]

Quick question, is there a Tuesday game or not. I can’tt seem to find an answer to the make up games.

Postponed until tomorrow

 

[Cotton]

Cowboys mock draft analysis: Take draft’s best defensive player or trade back?
By Jon Machota 34m ago

Considering where the three-win Cowboys are sitting with five games to go, a top-five pick seems likely. The New York Jets and Jacksonville Jaguars are bad enough that Dallas should forget about the top two. No. 3 overall could be on the line, however, when the Cowboys play the two-win Cincinnati Bengals in 11 days.

Dallas currently holds the NFL’s fourth-worst record, and that’s where Dane Brugler has them picking in his first mock draft.

There will be plenty of time to break down individual college stars between now and April, but why not take a look at a hypothetical scenario of what could go down in less than five months?

Brugler’s first three picks are two quarterbacks and an offensive tackle. No surprises there. What is somewhat surprising, though, is that one of the two quarterbacks is not Ohio State’s Justin Fields. That would be good news for the Cowboys.

Dallas isn’t expected to pick a quarterback at the top of the 2021 draft. Dak Prescott remains the most likely candidate to be the franchise’s quarterback next season and into the future. Some will say the Cowboys would have to kick the tires on the idea of drafting Fields if faced with this scenario. That can be debated at a later date. Either way, having Fields still available when the Cowboys are on the clock is intriguing because that’s the scenario that could lead to significant trade interest. Clemson’s Trevor Lawrence and BYU’s Zach Wilson are the quarterbacks Brugler had going with the first two picks. Oregon offensive tackle Penei Sewell went to the Bengals at No. 3.

That leaves Dallas with the ability to draft the top defensive player in this class. It seems like a great situation to be in, considering all of the help needed on that side of the ball. The problem is that the 2021 class doesn’t have an elite instant impact game-changer like Chase Young, Nick Bosa, Myles Garrett or Joey Bosa, edge rushers who have all gone in the top three the last five years.

In this scenario, the Cowboys might have to take the top cornerback. Brugler has them doing that, going with Virginia Tech’s Caleb Farley. He opted out of this year’s college football season because of COVID-19 concerns and to focus on preparing for the 2021 draft. Farley (6-2, 207) led the ACC with 16 passes defended last season to go along with four interceptions. Another option would be Alabama cornerback Patrick Surtain, whom Brugler has going to the Los Angeles Chargers fifth overall. Cornerback is arguably the Cowboys’ biggest need. Farley or Surtain could immediately step in as starters next season opposite of Trevon Diggs. In three of Mike McCarthy’s last four drafts in Green Bay, the Packers selected defensive backs with their first two picks.

Defensive tackle and safety will also be high on Dallas’ list of needs, but Brugler doesn’t have a player at either position going in the first round.

If things unfold how they did in this year’s draft, the Panthers could certainly land Fields without trading up. Brugler has Carolina getting Fields at No. 6. This past April, the Detroit Lions and New York Giants didn’t need quarterbacks at picks three and four, so Tua Tagovailoa and Justin Herbert were still there for the Miami Dolphins and Chargers at picks five and six. Why didn’t the Lions and Giants trade back with a team that needed a quarterback? Maybe they couldn’t find the right deal. Maybe there wasn’t as much interest to move up. It’s not like trading up to get a quarterback at the top of the draft has worked well lately.

The Jets sent the Indianapolis Colts the sixth overall pick and three second-round picks to move up three spots so they could take Sam Darnold third overall in 2018. Three years later, the Jets are expected to select a quarterback with the first overall pick. In 2017, the Chicago Bears sent the San Francisco 49ers the No. 3 overall pick, two third-rounders and a fourth to move up one spot to take Mitchell Trubisky second overall. He has not been the answer in Chicago, and it looks even worse considering Patrick Mahomes fell to No. 10 and Deshaun Watson to No. 12 in that draft.

You have to go back to 2004 to find the last time trading up to take a quarterback at the top of the draft has arguably worked out. That was the year Eli Manning was traded to the Giants after being picked No. 1 overall by the Chargers. The Giants gave up the fourth overall pick (Philip Rivers), a future first-rounder (Shawne Merriman), a third and a fifth. Despite his regular-season ups and downs, New York got a two-time Super Bowl MVP.

That’s not to say trading up for a quarterback is generally a bad idea. While Mahomes and Watson were not the first quarterbacks taken in their draft, they both necessitated trades up. Kansas City traded the 27th and 91st selections as well as a future first-round pick to Cleveland in order to take Mahomes 10th overall. Houston dealt the 25th pick and a future first-rounder to Philadelphia for the 12th pick, where they selected Watson. But the Cowboys would likely be dealing from a point higher up in the draft.

It shouldn’t be assumed that a team will be willing to part with a lot to move up a few more spots for a quarterback. Having Fields there would help, and trading back makes the most sense for the Cowboys.

Other top defensive prospects include Penn State linebacker Micah Parsons, Miami edge rusher Gregory Rousseau, Clemson cornerback Derion Kendrick, Michigan edge rusher Kwity Paye, South Carolina cornerback Jaycee Horn and Notre Dame linebacker Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah.

All would make some sense if the Cowboys were able to move back five to 10 spots, gain a future first-round pick or a couple of seconds, and start building up their defensive talent. But they also have to be prepared to take a player with their pick in case a trade partner doesn’t emerge.

 

[Simpleton]

Trade back, ideally.

I've been touting Parsons at 4 just because he's the guy I'd feel most comfortable gambling on at that spot, and feel that he's probably the best combination of upside/high floor as far as the defensive prospects in the draft, but it's certainly not cut and dry and being able to pick up 3 extra premium picks to move down 5-10 spots would be ideal.

At that point you just see what falls to you, including an OT/OG like Rashawn Slater potentially.

 

[mcnuttz]

If there's someone willing to trade down, you have to do it.

This team, particularly the defense, needs so much help that it would be silly not to.