2017 Draft Chatter Thread...

[boozeman]

No but it is hand timed. Its sort of like the unofficial times when you watch the combine. Just seems crazy to me he can go from a 4.56 to a sub 4.4. Regardless he is a top 10 pick.

He didn't. It is hometown bullshit.

 

[NoDak]

Who cares? It's not like it's going to suddenly improve his draft stock. He was already a top 5 pick.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Who cares? It's not like it's going to suddenly improve his draft stock. He was already a top 5 pick.

Pretty much. And frankly I'd still prefer Hooker if I had a chance at both.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

He didn't. It is hometown bullshit.

I've noticed NFL.com is now reporting it as a 4.45 forty. Again still impressive improvement but at least a little closer to the realm of possible.

 

[Cotton]

 

[ravidubey]

Call me a bit suspicious.

This is like every Ohio State player ever. Fast hometown tracks make a difference.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

McShay's tier rankings for 2017 NFL draft

Todd McShay
ESPN Senior Writer

As the 2017 NFL draft draws closer, it's time to run through our draft tier rankings, which uses our grades to separate prospects into different segments. This is helpful when comparing players who are close to each other in the rankings. It also helps in predicting where players will come off the board during the first three rounds of the draft.

Here are our draft tiers for 2017, covering every prospect with a first-, second- or third-round grade. (I've put each player's grade in parentheses next to his name.)

Tier 1

The elite class of the 2017 NFL draft. These players should be starters from Day 1 and project as perennial Pro Bowl players.

2017: 1 player | 2016 (at this point in the process): 3 players

1. Myles Garrett, DE, Texas A&M (Grade: 95)*

Garrett has the top tier all to himself after shining during the pre-draft process. We already knew he had fantastic tape and production (48.5 tackles for loss, 32.5 sacks and five forced fumbles in 36 starts), but he posted one of the best combine performances I've ever seen, just for good measure. At 6-foot-4½ and 272 pounds, he ran a 4.64 40 and jumped 41 inches in the vertical. The Browns should just turn in the card now. Garrett has to be the pick at No. 1 overall.

Tier 2

A notch below the elite class but still worthy of top-20 picks in most drafts. These picks are expected to be plug-and-play starters.

2017: 8 players | 2016: 8 players


2. Jonathan Allen, DT, Alabama (94)
3. Solomon Thomas, DE, Stanford (93)*
4. Jamal Adams, S, LSU (93)*
5. Leonard Fournette, RB, LSU (92)*
6. Marshon Lattimore, CB, Ohio State (92)*
7. Malik Hooker, S, Ohio State (92)*
8. Reuben Foster, ILB, Alabama (92)
9. O.J. Howard, TE, Alabama (92)

Ignore the noise surrounding Allen's poor combine workout; just turn on the tape and watch this guy play. He has a great work ethic, and it shows up on the field. Howard, Allen's Alabama teammate, has a real chance to become the first tight end selected in the top nine of the draft since Vernon Davis in 2006. Fournette stands above the rest in an elite running back class. He has the size (6-foot-½, 240), speed (4.51) and power to be a feature back, ideally in a power-blocking scheme.


Leonard Fournette is the clear-cut No. 1 RB in this class. Brett Rojo/USA TODAY Sports
Tier 3

These players carry late first-round grades.

2017: 10 players | 2016: 11 players

10. Forrest Lamp, G, Western Kentucky (91)
11. Corey Davis, WR, Western Michigan (91)
12. Mike Williams, WR, Clemson (91)*
13. Haason Reddick, ILB, Temple (90)
14. Derek Barnett, DE, Tennessee (90)*
15. David Njoku, TE, Miami (Fla.)(90)*
16. Garett Bolles, OT, Utah (90)*
17. Christian McCaffrey, RB, Stanford (90)*
18. Kevin King, CB, Washington (90)
19. John Ross, WR, Washington (90)*

It isn't often that you see the first offensive lineman in Tier 3, but such is the case for this class right now. Lamp continues to move up my rankings because of his exceptional athleticism. The race between Davis and Williams for the No. 1 WR ranking could not be tighter. Davis has great speed on tape and elite production, while Williams has the best ball skills of any WR in this draft. McCaffrey now has a small lead on Florida State's Dalvin Cook for the No. 2 RB spot. The Stanford product shined at the combine and will help his NFL team in a variety of ways.

Tier 4

Would rather not reach for these prospects late in the first round, but they're good value picks in the first half of Round 2.

2017: 27 players | 2016: 23 players

20. Dalvin Cook, RB, Florida State (89)*
21. Gareon Conley, CB, Ohio State (89)*
22. Taco Charlton, DE, Michigan (89)
23. Takkarist McKinley, OLB, UCLA (89)
24. Deshaun Watson, QB, Clemson (89)*
25. Malik McDowell, DT, Michigan State (89)*
26. Charles Harris, OLB, Missouri (88)*
27. Ryan Ramczyk, OT, Wisconsin (88)*
28. Jarrad Davis, ILB, Florida (88)
29. Budda Baker, S, Washington (88)*
30. Quincy Wilson, CB, Florida (88)*
31. Mitchell Trubisky, QB, North Carolina (88)*
32. Tre'Davious White, CB, LSU (87)
33. Cam Robinson, OT, Alabama (87)*
34. Obi Melifonwu, S, Connecticut (87)
35. Marlon Humphrey, CB, Alabama (87)*
36. Evan Engram, TE, Mississippi (85)
37. Alvin Kamara, RB, Tennessee (86)*
38. Tyus Bowser, OLB, Houston (86)
39. Zay Jones, WR, East Carolina (86)
40. Caleb Brantley, DT, Florida (86)*
41. Jourdan Lewis, CB, Michigan (86)
42. Marcus Maye, S, Florida (86)
43. Adoree' Jackson, CB, USC (86)*
44. Jabrill Peppers, S, Michigan (85)*
45. DeShone Kizer, QB, Notre Dame (85)*
46. Tim Williams, OLB, Alabama (85)

This is where the top three quarterbacks fall on my board (for now). It isn't an elite class at the top end of the position -- there are no Andrew Luck types who deserve to be the No. 1 pick -- but if given time to develop, Watson, Trubisky and Kizer have the tools to grow into solid NFL starters. If you can't tell, this is an extremely deep DB class, with 14 cornerbacks/safeties in the first four tiers. At this point last year, I had seven DBs ranked in Tiers 1-4.


Clemson's Deshaun Watson has impressed during the pre-draft process. Todd Kirkland/Icon Sportswire
Tier 5

These players are middle- or late-second-round prospects.

2017: 14 players | 2016: 18 players

47. T.J. Watt, OLB, Wisconsin (84)*
48. JuJu Smith-Schuster, WR, USC (84)*
49. Patrick Mahomes II, QB, Texas Tech (83)*
50. Curtis Samuel, WR, Ohio State (83)*
51. Teez Tabor, CB, Florida (83)*
52. Jordan Willis, DE, Kansas State (82)
53. Chidobe Awuzie, CB, Colorado (81)
54. Zach Cunningham, ILB, Vanderbilt (81)*
55. Josh Jones, S, North Carolina State (81)*
56. Joe Mixon, RB, Oklahoma (80)*
57. Ryan Anderson, OLB, Alabama (80)
58. Fabian Moreau, CB, UCLA (80)
59. Taylor Moton, G, Western Michigan (80)
60. Adam Shaheen, TE, Ashland (80)*
61. Larry Ogunjobi, DT, Charlotte (80)

At Nos. 51 and 52 are two players who went in opposite directions during the pre-draft process. Headed into the combine, I thought Tabor had a chance to be a top-15 pick based on his tape. But he posted a 4.62 40-yard dash at the combine, which is a red-flag number at the position. Willis, meanwhile, showed off incredible explosiveness for a 255-pounder: 4.53 40, 39-inch vertical, 4.28-second short shuttle. Based purely on his football skills, Mixon would rank a lot higher on this list, but a 2014 incident in which he punched a woman and broke four bones in her face will cause some teams to take him off their boards entirely.

Tier 6

These players are third-round prospects. They could develop into solid starters, but they either have limited upside or come with a higher element of risk than players worth drafting in the first two rounds.

2017: 49 players | 2016: 42 players

62. Dion Dawkins, G, Temple (79)
63. Gerald Everett, TE, South Alabama (79)
64. Desmond King, CB, Iowa (79)
65. Cooper Kupp, WR, Eastern Washington (79)
66. Derek Rivers, OLB, Youngstown (79)
67. Chris Wormley, DT, Michigan (79)
68. Joshua Dobbs, QB, Tennessee (79)
69. Jake Butt, TE, Michigan (78)
70. Dan Feeney, G, Indiana (78)
71. Carlos Henderson, WR, Louisiana Tech (78)*
72. Damontae Kazee, CB, San Diego State (78)
73. Raekwon McMillan, ILB, Ohio State (78)*
74. Marcus Williams, S, Utah (78)*
75. Jermaine Eluemunor, OT, Texas A&M (78)
76. Carlos Watkins, DT, Clemson (78)
77. Samaje Perine, RB, Oklahoma (77)*
78. Nathan Peterman, QB, Pittsburgh (77)
79. Justin Evans, S, Texas A&M (77)
80. Sidney Jones, CB, Washington (77)*
81. Taywan Taylor, WR, Western Kentucky (77)
82. Jaleel Johnson, DT, Iowa (77)
83. Mack Hollins, WR, North Carolina (76)
84. Bucky Hodges, TE, Virginia Tech (76)*
85. DeMarcus Walker, DE, Florida State (76)
86. Dalvin Tomlinson, DT, Alabama (76)
87. Kendell Beckwith, ILB, LSU (75)
88. Chris Godwin, WR, Penn State (75)*
89. Pat Elflein, C, Ohio State (75)
90. D'Onta Foreman, RB, Texas (75)*
91. Tanoh Kpassagnon, DE, Villanova (75)
92. Dorian Johnson, G, Pittsburgh (75)
93. Jordan Leggett, TE, Clemson (75)
94. Montravius Adams, DT, Auburn (75)
95. Cameron Sutton, CB, Tennessee (75)
96. Kareem Hunt, RB, Toledo (74)
97. Duke Riley, ILB, LSU (74)
98. ArDarius Stewart, WR, Alabama (74)*
99. Malachi Dupre, WR, LSU (73)*
100. Carl Lawson, DE, Auburn (73)*
101. Tarell Basham, DE, Ohio (72)
102. Rasul Douglas, CB, West Virginia (72)
103. Alex Anzalone, ILB, Florida (71)*
104. Roderick Johnson, OT, Florida State (71)*
105. Zach Banner, OT, USC (70)
106. Antonio Garcia, G, Troy (70)
107. Trey Hendrickson, DE, Florida Atlantic (70)
108. Cole Hikutini, TE, Louisville (70)
109. John Johnson, S, Boston College (70)
110. Davis Webb, QB, California (70)

This is a good draft to have compensatory selections stockpiled in the third round. I have seven more players with third-round grades this year than I did at this point in 2016. This subset of prospects is a great example of the tight end depth in this class. I have five TEs in Tier 6 and nine players at the position in Tiers 1-6. Last year's numbers at the position? One TE in Tier 6 and just four in Tiers 1-6. Don't overlook South Alabama's Gerald Everett. He has played football only since his senior year in high school, but he has the speed, athleticism and ball skills to become a pass-catching mismatch in the NFL.

 

[boozeman]

 

[NoDak]

That dude's high. No Derek Barnett?

 

[Cowboysrock55]

That dude's high. No Derek Barnett?

He is at like 33. He definitely has his own unique opinion on players. I think he is way off on Barnett but I can respect him at least not just feeding us the same list as everyone else with a few difference.

 

[Smitty]

I always get a kick when these mockers come up with grade systems where the 10th best player is a "late first round grade" and the 20th best player is a player "you wouldn't want to reach on by taking in the late first but you'd feel ok in the top of the second."

Well then what the hell do you do if you are picking 20th? There's literally no good player for you to pick?

I can see if the system is trying to say, "in comparison to other years, this class does not have 32 players on par with the players selected 20-32 in other drafts" -- but his numbers indicate a similar shortfall last year. And probably every year.

You need a different classification system if you are saying there are only 19 first round caliber players every year, but 46 second round caliber guys. That can be true in a given year, but when there are 32 picks in the first round, your grades should be averaging 32 first round grades from year to year.

Some years there should be more than 32 players with first round grades. Does that ever happen? Then your grading system is flawed. The Cowboys picking at 28 will have options to select from that are good quality starting caliber players. It's a question of finding them. To say there is a situation where there isn't a player worthy of being selected at that spot cause there are no first round grades left is silly.

Maybe the tier should be "19 sure fire immediate starters/future pro bowlers," and then picks 20-46 are "developmental future pro bowlers" or something. But guess what, prospects 20-32 must be better than 33-46, or your would t have them ranked higher. Those guys at 20-32 are first rounders by virtue of being better than prospects 33-46.

 

[Genghis Khan]

I always get a kick when these mockers come up with grade systems where the 10th best player is a "late first round grade" and the 20th best player is a player "you wouldn't want to reach on by taking in the late first but you'd feel ok in the top of the second."

Well then what the hell do you do if you are picking 20th? There's literally no good player for you to pick?

I can see if the system is trying to say, "in comparison to other years, this class does not have 32 players on par with the players selected 20-32 in other drafts" -- but his numbers indicate a similar shortfall last year. And probably every year.

You need a different classification system if you are saying there are only 19 first round caliber players every year, but 46 second round caliber guys. That can be true in a given year, but when there are 32 picks in the first round, your grades should be averaging 32 first round grades from year to year.

Some years there should be more than 32 players with first round grades. Does that ever happen? Then your grading system is flawed. The Cowboys picking at 28 will have options to select from that are good quality starting caliber players. It's a question of finding them. To say there is a situation where there isn't a player worthy of being selected at that spot cause there are no first round grades left is silly.

Maybe the tier should be "19 sure fire immediate starters/future pro bowlers," and then picks 20-46 are "developmental future pro bowlers" or something. But guess what, prospects 20-32 must be better than 33-46, or your would t have them ranked higher. Those guys at 20-32 are first rounders by virtue of being better than prospects 33-46.

I agree. I think if I'm not mistaken a lot of teams do that as well, and it's just silly. Each draft should be an island unto itself.

Disclaimer: I do understand that part of the reason to do this is it helps orient the value of trading up or down, but it's still silly.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I always get a kick when these mockers come up with grade systems where the 10th best player is a "late first round grade" and the 20th best player is a player "you wouldn't want to reach on by taking in the late first but you'd feel ok in the top of the second."

Well then what the hell do you do if you are picking 20th? There's literally no good player for you to pick?

I can see if the system is trying to say, "in comparison to other years, this class does not have 32 players on par with the players selected 20-32 in other drafts" -- but his numbers indicate a similar shortfall last year. And probably every year.

You need a different classification system if you are saying there are only 19 first round caliber players every year, but 46 second round caliber guys. That can be true in a given year, but when there are 32 picks in the first round, your grades should be averaging 32 first round grades from year to year.

Some years there should be more than 32 players with first round grades. Does that ever happen? Then your grading system is flawed. The Cowboys picking at 28 will have options to select from that are good quality starting caliber players. It's a question of finding them. To say there is a situation where there isn't a player worthy of being selected at that spot cause there are no first round grades left is silly.

Maybe the tier should be "19 sure fire immediate starters/future pro bowlers," and then picks 20-46 are "developmental future pro bowlers" or something. But guess what, prospects 20-32 must be better than 33-46, or your would t have them ranked higher. Those guys at 20-32 are first rounders by virtue of being better than prospects 33-46.

Yeah, we usually talk about this every year. Because inevitably some expert will claim that there are only 19 first rounders this year. And yet you never hear someone claim that there are 40 first round caliber players.

If there are only ever around 20 first round prospects, than that means the first round is only 20 picks. It's silly to define someone as a first rounder with that type of criteria. Looking at McShay's tiers I'm actually more apt in this super deep draft class to say his top 4 tiers are all first round caliber. Especially since we have seen most of his tier 4 players mentioned in the first round. It also highlights why I am totally ok with trading down. I don't think there is much difference between player 21 and player 41 in this draft. Hell he has TJ Watt as a tier 5 player, and I've seen him in first round discussions.

 

[Cotton]

Uhhh, what?

 

[Rev]

Uhhh, what?

Just another name on their QB list.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Uhhh, what?

Who knows, it's Cleveland.

 

[boozeman]

This Tweet has a link to one of the more interesting draft boards I have seen to date:

 

[Smitty]

I will say I am surprised Trubisky hasn't shot up draft boards like Wentz did last year, maybe cause I'm a UNC fan.

For Cleveland, don't know if I could justify taking him over Garrett, but I'd certainly be calling the teams in the top 5 seeing if I could move up for Trubisky. They need to solve their QB situation.

 

[NoDak]

I will say I am surprised Trubisky hasn't shot up draft boards like Wentz did last year, maybe cause I'm a UNC fan.

For Cleveland, don't know if I could justify taking him over Garrett, but I'd certainly be calling the teams in the top 5 seeing if I could move up for Trubisky. They need to solve their QB situation.

If they want Trubisky, there's a pretty good chance he'll still be there at 12. If not, one of the others will be. I think the top 3 are all pretty close.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I will say I am surprised Trubisky hasn't shot up draft boards like Wentz did last year, maybe cause I'm a UNC fan.

For Cleveland, don't know if I could justify taking him over Garrett, but I'd certainly be calling the teams in the top 5 seeing if I could move up for Trubisky. They need to solve their QB situation.

I don't dislike Trubisky but he doesn't have the physical skill set of Wentz. Not that it should be an end all be all for a QB. Hell Wentz has a better physical skill set than Goff as well. But I don't think Wentz and Trubisky are really comparable (In terms of arm strength, size and athleticism). If Trubisky had even started 2 years and did what he did we would probably be talking about him as a top 5 pick in my opinion. The problem is lots of college QBs look great one year and than fall off in year two. Hell look at CJ Beathard at Iowa. He was awesome as a JR. Many thought he may be an excellent QB prospect in this class. Than sucked out loud as a Senior.