The Minimum Wage Debate

Cowboysrock55 said:
That could very well be. However if Walmart valued customer service more they would likely pay employees more and get better customer service. Of course they would probably have to raise their prices and they would essentially be the same thing as Target.
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Their prices were still low back when they gave a shit. Keeping good employees through regular raises can pay for itself. They are more productive and you don't have to keep training their replacements. 10 bucks an hour for a cashier that's been with the company for 7 or 8 years isn't a lot of money to a corporation like Wal Mart and they can check people out twice as fast as someone who doesn't know how to run the machine.
 
Shoplifting is a big deal for Wal-Mart. I bet not having employees that f***ing hate them would cut down on those losses.
 
Very interesting take by Mike Rowe in this subject.

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Hi Mike,
The federal minimum wage is $7.25 and hour. A lot of people think it should be raised to $10.10. Seattle now pays $15 an hour, and the The Freedom Socialist Party is demanding a $20 living wage for every working person. What do you think about the minimum wage? How much do you think a Big Mac will cost if McDonald’s had to pay all their employees $20 an hour?

Darrell Paul

Hi Darrell

Back in 1979, I was working as an usher for United Artists at a multiplex in Baltimore. The minimum wage was $2.90, and I earned every penny.
When I wasn’t tearing tickets in half and stopping kids from theater hopping, I was cleaning out the bathrooms, emptying the trash, and scrapping dubious substances off the theater floor with a putty knife. I wore a silly outfit and smiled unnaturally, usually for the entirety of my shift. I worked 18 hours my first week, mostly after school, and earned $62.20. Before taxes. But I was also learning the importance of “soft skills.” I learned to show up on time and tuck my shirt in. I embraced the many virtues of proper hygiene. Most of all, I learned how to take shit from the public, and suck up to my boss.

After three months, I got a raise, and wound up behind the concession stand. Once it was determined I wasn’t a thief, I was promoted to cashier. Three months later, I got another raise. Eventually, they taught me how to operate a projector, which was the job I wanted in the first place.

The films would arrive from Hollywood in giant boxes, thin and square, like the top of a card table, but heavy. I’d open each one with care, and place each spool on a separate platter. Then, I’d thread them into the giant projector, looping the leader through 22 separate gates, careful to touch only the sides.

Raging Bull, Airplane, The Shining, Caddyshack, The Elephant Man - I saw them all from the shadowy comfort of the projection booth, and collected $10 an hour for my trouble. Eventually, I was offered an assistant manager position, which I declined. I wasn’t management material then, anymore than I am now. But I had a plan. I was going to be in the movies. Or, God forbid, on television.

I thought about all this last month when I saw “Boyhood” at a theater in San Francisco. I bought the tickets from a machine that took my credit card and spit out a piece of paper with a bar code on it. I walked inside, and fed the paper into another machine, which beeped twice, welcomed me in a mechanical voice, and lowered a steel bar that let me into the lobby. No usher, no cashier. I found the concession stand and bought a bushel of popcorn from another machine, and a gallon of Diet Coke that I poured myself. On the way out, I saw an actual employee, who turned out to be the manager. I asked him how much a projectionist was making these days, and he just laughed.

“There’s no such position,” he said. I just put the film in the slot myself and press a button. Easy breezy.”

To answer your question Darrell, I’m worried. From the business owners I’ve talked to, it seems clear that companies are responding to rising labor costs by embracing automation faster than ever. That’s eliminating thousands of low-paying, unskilled, entry level positions. What will that mean for those people trying to get started in the workforce? My job as an usher was the first rung on a long ladder of work that lead me to where I am today. But what if that rung wasn't there? If the minimum wage in 1979 had been suddenly raised from $2.90 to $10 an hour, thousands of people would have applied for the same job. What chance would I have had, being seventeen years old with pimples and a big adams apple?

One night, thirty-six years ago, during the midnight showing of The Rocky Horror Picture Show, I sat in the projection booth and read a short story by Ray Bradbury called “A Sound of Thunder.” It was about a guy who traveled back in time to look at dinosaurs, but against strict orders, ventured off the observation platform and accidentally stepped on a butterfly. When he returned to the present, everything in the world had changed. “The Butterfly Effect” is now an expression that describes a single event that leads to a series of unanticipated outcomes, resulting in a profoundly unintended consequence. (Ironically, it's also a movie with Ashton Kutcher, which I had to pay to see 30 years later.)
Anyway, I’m not an economist or a sociologist, but I’m pretty sure a $20 minimum wage would affect a lot more than the cost of a Big Mac. Beyond the elimination of many entry-level jobs, consider the effect on the skills gap. According to the BLS, they’re about three million available positions that companies are trying to fill right now. Very few of those jobs require a four-year degree, but nearly all require specific training. And all pay more than the current minimum wage. If we want a skilled workforce, (and believe me, we do,) should we really be demanding $20 an hour for unskilled labor?

Last year, I narrated a commercial about US manufacturing, paid for by Walmart. It started a shitstorm, and cost me many thousands virtual friends. Among the aggrieved, was a labor organization called Jobs With Justice. They wanted me to know just how unfairly Walmart was treating it’s employees. So they had their members send my foundation over 8,000 form letters, asking me to meet with unhappy Walmart workers, and join them in their fight against “bad jobs.”

While I’m sympathetic to employees who want to be paid fairly, I prefer to help on an individual basis. I’m also skeptical that a modest pay increase will make an unskilled worker less reliant upon an employer whom they affirmatively resent. I explained this to Jobs With Justice in an open letter, and invited anyone who felt mistreated to explore the many training opportunities and scholarships available through mikeroweWORKS. I further explained that I couldn’t couldn’t join them in their fight against “bad jobs,” because frankly, I don’t believe there is such a thing. My exact words were, “Some jobs pay better, some jobs smell better, and some jobs have no business being treated like careers. But work is never the enemy, regardless of the wage. Because somewhere between the job and the paycheck, there’s still a thing called opportunity, and that’s what people need to pursue.”

People are always surprised to learn that many of the subjects on Dirty Jobs were millionaires - entrepreneurs who crawled through a river of crap, prospered, and created jobs for others along the way. Men and women who started with nothing and built a going concern out of the dirt. I was talking last week with my old friend Richard, who owns a small but prosperous construction company in California. Richard still hangs drywall and sheetrock with his aging crew because he can’t find enough young people who want to learn the construction trades. Today, he’ll pay $40 an hour for a reliable welder, but more often than not, he can’t find one. Whenever I talk to Richard, and consider the number of millennials within 50 square miles of his office stocking shelves or slinging hash for the minimum wage, I can only shake my head.

Point is Darrell, if you fix the wage of a worker, or freeze the price of a thing, you’re probably gonna step on a few butterflies. Doesn’t matter how well-intended the policy - the true cost a $20 minimum wage has less to do with the price of a Big Mac, and more to do with a sound of thunder. Frankly, it scares the hell out of me.

Mike

PS I looked into the Freedom Socialist Party and their demand for a universal, $20 an hour living wage. Interesting. You're right - they're serious. But not long after they announced their position, they made the interesting decision to advertise for a web designer....at $13 an hour. Make of that what you will... (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…/socialist-13-hour_n_6008432…)
 
townsend said:
Shoplifting is a big deal for Wal-Mart. I bet not having employees that f***ing hate them would cut down on those losses.
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If you're going to shoplift, Walmart is the last place in the world you should do it. They have plain clothed employees walking around to catch shoplifters. They have tons of cameras everywhere. I've handled a good amount of Walmart shoplifting cases.
 
townsend said:
I think that becomes a self fulfilling prophesy though. Treating workers like shitty workers will always yield shitty workers.
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Those workers know what the wage is before they apply for the job.
 
NoDak said:
Those workers know what the wage is before they apply for the job.
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They don't necessarily know the hours, or the lack of opportunity for advancement, or how management treats them. If Wal-Mart made employees feel more like part of an organization that cared about them (and some do) those would be "shitty employees" would be more invested in the company's success. Most HEB employees I see don't get paid very much more than Wal-Mart. They hire a lot of kids too, but almost all of the employees I see there are happy and seem to like their job. I feel like how management treats them is a big part of that.
 
townsend said:
They don't necessarily know the hours, or the lack of opportunity for advancement, or how management treats them.
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If they don't, then they're stupid. Would you go into a job with out checking it out even a LITTLE bit? I sure wouldn't.

And if somebody cares so little about what they are about to get themselves into, then I care about them even less.
 
townsend said:
They don't necessarily know the hours, or the lack of opportunity for advancement, or how management treats them.
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2 out of 3 ain't bad. They know their hours and advancement opportunities (or they are retarded as NoDak stated). The only thing they can't know is how their management will treat them.
 
I bet Wal-Mart has a lot more turnover from employees who took the gig because it was what they could get at that moment, and then they moved on when a less shitty employer comes available.

Maybe a lot of guys "know what they're getting into" but if Wal-Mart gave a shit, those same employees who would potentially develop into decent workers would stay and Wal-Mart wouldn't be a lousy place to shop.

Admittedly there are good Wal-Marts still, and those places are usually a lot more packed with customers.
 
townsend said:
I bet Wal-Mart has a lot more turnover from employees who took the gig because it was what they could get at that moment, and then they moved on when a less shitty employer comes available.

Maybe a lot of guys "know what they're getting into" but if Wal-Mart gave a shit, those same employees who would potentially develop into decent workers would stay and Wal-Mart wouldn't be a lousy place to shop.

Admittedly there are good Wal-Marts still, and those places are usually a lot more packed with customers.
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Exactly the point. If they don't like the job they can use it for a bit as a paycheck until they can find something they like better. But, they damn sure know what they are getting into unless they are complete idiots, and in that case they most likely stay where they're at.
 
Iamtdg said:
Exactly the point. If they don't like the job they can use it for a bit as a paycheck until they can find something they like better. But, they damn sure know what they are getting into unless they are complete idiots, and in that case they most likely stay where they're at.
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I'll agree with that, it just seems like poor business practices. Like a bunch if executives trying to neglect the foundation of their business for the sake of a spreadsheet.
Right now we're seeing monoliths like Budweiser and McDonalds start to crumble because of a failure to adapt to the demands of a changing marketplace. Unless Walmart sees the writing on the wall I could see competitors that offer a better shopping experience start cutting into their market share.
 
townsend said:
I'll agree with that, it just seems like poor business practices. Like a bunch if executives trying to neglect the foundation of their business for the sake of a spreadsheet.
Right now we're seeing monoliths like Budweiser and McDonalds start to crumble because of a failure to adapt to the demands of a changing marketplace. Unless Walmart sees the writing on the wall I could see competitors that offer a better shopping experience start cutting into their market share.
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Maybe, but as it stands right now they are making money hand over fist, so it's hard to argue with their model.
 
Lol, only at the DCC can people with no understaning boohoo the business plan of the largest, most successful retailer in the history of the world. I get not loving their ideas but come on!
 
Iamtdg said:
Maybe, but as it stands right now they are making money hand over fist, so it's hard to argue with their model.
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They are still on top, but not by the margin they used to be and their sales are slowly declining. They have a stranglehold on places without good alternatives, but here in TX, HEBs look a lot busier and can somehow afford to keep checkout lines open.
 
Clay_Allison said:
They are still on top, but not by the margin they used to be and their sales are slowly declining. They have a stranglehold on places without good alternatives, but here in TX, HEBs look a lot busier and can somehow afford to keep checkout lines open.
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Their strategies are obviously different. Wal-Mart still dominates the market though.

I avoid that place whenever possible though.
 
skidadl said:
Lol, only at the DCC can people with no understaning boohoo the business plan of the largest, most successful retailer in the history of the world. I get not loving their ideas but come on!
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The people in charge of Walmart at this moment have little to no responsibility for it being the largest retailer in the world. Guys like Mike Duke didn't found Walmart. They found a goose laying golden eggs and started hacking. In what have been some pretty off putting changes to the brand. Things like greeters and full time employees were cut over the last half decade. Mostly boosting the bottom line at the expense of customer good will. As a consumer I'm expressing why this has turned me off of the chain for the most part, and as I mentioned before we're seeing Mcdonalds and Budweiser topple from Mt. Olympus mainly because they've alienated younger demographics. Walmart could be next.
 
townsend said:
The people in charge of Walmart at this moment have little to no responsibility for it being the largest retailer in the world. Guys like Mike Duke didn't found Walmart. They found a goose laying golden eggs and started hacking. In what have been some pretty off putting changes to the brand. Things like greeters and full time employees were cut over the last half decade. Mostly boosting the bottom line at the expense of customer good will. As a consumer I'm expressing why this has turned me off of the chain for the most part, and as I mentioned before we're seeing Mcdonalds and Budweiser topple from Mt. Olympus mainly because they've alienated younger demographics. Walmart could be next.
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Wal-Mart sucks.
 
So you ordered a number two. Then you asked her how much she made. What a dick.
 
Bumping this thread because I am bored.

It is amazing there has been so little organized discussion on it.

And it is a little look back into a eight year time capsule.

Oh my.
 
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