Religion thread...

[Cotton]

Lookit, you don't have to believe the logic of the explanation but I'll try yo explain again. It would be cool if you just said something like, thats BS or I don't agree instead of pretending like I didn't explain it.

Going from the old to new testament wasn't a deal where it was like ooops we didn't think of that so we need to make some shit up in a hurry. It was part of the story all along. it didn't just come into the picture out of nowhere. I feel like that is a really major point that is being glazed over here and everywhere else.

I'll try again though. the bible foretold of what happened. Do you not understand that part. If you agree or think it is BS is fine. What you are missing is that it wasn't an afterthought. That makes it that much more compelling. You see it as waffling. Obviously you missed the part where all of it was prophesied. I've heard it before where folks are like, oh lookie here God changes His mind between the old and new testament. Yeah buddy, it was told that everything would change when Jesus came on the scene. Welcome to several thousands of years ago.

Yes, I think it's BS. My questions aren't really meant to be answered. I know there are now answers that will satisfy me, but I always have fun debating this with you. The questions keep that going. Thanks for helping me thru my boredom this afternoon. The game is on now, so I'm out.

 

[Cotton]

you are exactly right. I mean, in human terms that is. But from a global viewpoint you are dead wrong. What you want to do is put God in a box on your level, which is hilarious. You are demanding that He scale it down for you lest you reject Him. See how that seems backwards?

Arrogance. The downfall of man.

Since you called me arrogant, I will reciprocate. Needing a book to tell you right and wrong is lazy.

 

[Cotton]

Frankly I don't see where incest was ever sanctioned. If anyone is referring to the species being promulgated in the beginning with Adam and Eve it would not fit there because the translation of Adam is actually man or mankind. There were other humans created evidenced by Cain' s departure and subsequent marriage.

Ruh roh, now the christians are gonna fight. Someone hold me.

 

[skidadl]

Since you called me arrogant, I will reciprocate. Needing a book to tell you right and wrong is lazy.

Oh I'm arrogant and everything else that you can name. That's why I need a savior.

I wasn't exactly referring to you. Just mankind in general.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Ruh roh, now the christians are gonna fight. Someone hold me.

No I am not fighting I am addressing the issue of incest in the bible. The only other occasion that promulgation of the species in the bible was an issue was the flood and incest certainly was not sanctioned by God then. Again my dog isn't in the fight I am only commenting on one topic.

 

[Cotton]

No I am not fighting I am addressing the issue of incest in the bible. The only other occasion that promulgation of the species in the bible was an issue was the flood and incest certainly was not sanctioned by God then. Again my dog isn't in the fight I am only commenting on one topic.

So, god killed everyone on the planet without a plan on how repopulate the earth? That's weird.

 

[skidadl]

I don't understand it therefore God is wrong.


That seems logical.

 

[L.T. Fan]

So, god killed everyone on the planet without a plan on how repopulate the earth? That's weird.

You forget that he can speak things into existence and obviously he had a plan because even at the creation he spoke of a plan to defeat Satan through a woman who would bruise the head of the serpent. That came about centuries after the flood.

 

[Cotton]

I don't understand it therefore God is wrong.


That seems logical.

I have faith so everyone else must be wrong. Even more logical.

 

[Cotton]

You forget that he can speak things into existence and obviously he had a plan because even at the creation he spoke of a plan to defeat Satan through a woman who would bruise the head of the serpent. That came about centuries after the flood.

Now, this is much closer to the "stuff" I was taught growing up, and is what started me questioning it all.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Now, this is much closer to the "stuff" I was taught growing up, and is what started me questioning it all.

Oh I understand exactly what you are saying. As you grew older and more aware of science and logic, the idea of supernatural and metaphysical diminished to a point to where it simply was unacceptable.

 

[Cotton]

Oh I understand exactly what you are saying. As you grew older and more aware of science and logic, the idea of supernatural and metaphysical diminished to a point to where it simply was unacceptable.

I think it was partly that, and partly the good book that rules it all.

 

[BipolarFuk]

 

[L.T. Fan]

"Successful people build each other up. They motivate, inspire and push each other. Unsuccessful people just hate, blame and complain."
Anonymous

 

[fortsbest]

"Successful people build each other up. They motivate, inspire and push each other. Unsuccessful people just hate, blame and complain."
Anonymous

The tolerance and acceptance just oozes out of people like Bipo's pores doesn't it. If you don't think or believe as he does you're in for it. Christians and citizens of this country are the most caring and charitable people in the world. Just because we want to keep our country in a position where we can maintain that generosity doesn't make us bad people. And part of that is establishing and maintaining a secure border. I can't believe some don't see that.

 

[townsend]

Here's the thing. I love Christians, and I love a lot of the great things that christian organizations have done over the last two millennia. But also, if you're predator the Church is an ideal hunting ground.

It's a place where (much like cults) dumb people can be taught to do exactly what the largely unqualified charismatic man in the suit says.

You can see the nonsense that happened with that one (discovered, so far) rapist Duggar and the crazy home school curriculum (written by sexual predator and 90s evangelical sweet heart Bill Gothard.) And see how fucked over a lot of Christians (and the helpless children of Christians) have been by wolves in sheep's (well Armani's) clothing.

Along with the other morons of the day (Dr. James Dobson, Pat Robertson, maybe a little Falwell) a basic protestant doctrine I've seen cobbled together for the Christianity I experienced included basic ideas like:
Hit your fucking children, if you don't they may grow a personality.

Don't let them believe anything you don't believe.

Don't let them disagree with you.

Seriously keep hitting them until you feel like a man.

If a person in charge makes a mistake, you HAVE to forgive them, Jesus says.

The only way to find out if a person in charge makes a mistake is by having him ask for your forgiveness.

The Republican party is always right

Muslims are evil.

Whoever the democrat leader at the time is is the anti Christ.

Anything related to sex is terrible and evil.

Gays are evil.

Why aren't you hitting your kids yet?

Maybe dumb athiests are too few and too young to do the damage that Christians of the last generation did. But I can't pretend like those shitty people don't deserve a lot of flack for the people they hurt, and since that represents Christianity just as much as all the super nice stuff. Christians have to own it. Otherwise it's a practice of the same lack of self awareness that caused Christians to alienate both Gen X and Millennials.

 

[Cotton]

Please don't lump me in with all non-Christians in this thread, please.

 

[skidadl]

Here's the thing. I love Christians, and I love a lot of the great things that christian organizations have done over the last two millennia. But also, if you're predator the Church is an ideal hunting ground.

It's a place where (much like cults) dumb people can be taught to do exactly what the largely unqualified charismatic man in the suit says.

You can see the nonsense that happened with that one (discovered, so far) rapist Duggar and the crazy home school curriculum (written by sexual predator and 90s evangelical sweet heart Bill Gothard.) And see how fucked over a lot of Christians (and the helpless children of Christians) have been by wolves in sheep's (well Armani's) clothing.

Along with the other morons of the day (Dr. James Dobson, Pat Robertson, maybe a little Falwell) a basic protestant doctrine I've seen cobbled together for the Christianity I experienced included basic ideas like:
Hit your fucking children, if you don't they may grow a personality.

Don't let them believe anything you don't believe.

Don't let them disagree with you.

Seriously keep hitting them until you feel like a man.

If a person in charge makes a mistake, you HAVE to forgive them, Jesus says.

The only way to find out if a person in charge makes a mistake is by having him ask for your forgiveness.

The Republican party is always right

Muslims are evil.

Whoever the democrat leader at the time is is the anti Christ.

Anything related to sex is terrible and evil.

Gays are evil.

Why aren't you hitting your kids yet?

Maybe dumb athiests are too few and too young to do the damage that Christians of the last generation did. But I can't pretend like those shitty people don't deserve a lot of flack for the people they hurt, and since that represents Christianity just as much as all the super nice stuff. Christians have to own it. Otherwise it's a practice of the same lack of self awareness that caused Christians to alienate both Gen X and Millennials.

There are a bunch of really dumb "Christians" for sure.

Take the teachings of Jesus and the new testament. If those bother you then that is where your problem is. Ignore all of the made-up doctrine that religion brings. Most of it was made up by people for one reason or another.

In other words, your problem may actually be with the established, religious weirdos, which is understandable. Jesus warned about that. Paul clearly writes about folks that went back to unnecessary doctrines that don't amount to anything. Jesus came to free folks from all of that. That's where it gets twisted.

American Christianity has strayed pretty far from the original idea.

Just once i'd like to have a conversation about the new testament, the new covenant, what Jesus said and so forth. It will probably never happen here though.

At least not with anyone that doesn't google controversial things about Jesus just to try to make something stick.

 

[skidadl]

I don't think I've ever walked away from a religious debate online feeling better. It is such a hostile topic because most against (and for) have so much anger and hatred. The discussion is pretty much focused on the most controversial topics. For whatever reason the climate has turned towards that. It is very hard to defend online or anywhere when that is the spirit of the conversation. Sadly Christians have done a really bad job of really showing what the teachings of Jesus are all about. I know that I've sometimes done a really poor job by getting sucked into the hot topics, which is a giant distraction from the main issue.

Most of the time folks take the stupidest stances from Joe Blow preacher and comes with their ammo ready to fight. Then it is hard to defend.

NB - Christians hate gays!

B - Um, Jesus doesn't!

NB - Leviticus!! F U!

B - Laws were made by man for control (much like any man made law today. and due to the lack of a savior. Jesus loves you!

NB - F U Nobody can understand the rules!

B - Jesus said He did away with the laws.

NB - yeah, making stuff up! F U!

B - dammit I'm tired of you. F U back!!

 

[townsend]

There are a bunch of really dumb "Christians" for sure.

Take the teachings of Jesus and the new testament. If those bother you then that is where your problem is. Ignore all of the made-up doctrine that religion brings. Most of it was made up by people for one reason or another.

In other words, your problem may actually be with the established, religious weirdos, which is understandable. Jesus warned about that. Paul clearly writes about folks that went back to unnecessary doctrines that don't amount to anything. Jesus came to free folks from all of that. That's where it gets twisted.

American Christianity has strayed pretty far from the original idea.

Just once i'd like to have a conversation about the new testament, the new covenant, what Jesus said and so forth. It will probably never happen here though.

At least not with anyone that doesn't google controversial things about Jesus just to try to make something stick.

Real talk, I have no issue with J Dawg or his contributions to the New Testament. I have some issue with Saul the Christian killer who saw which direction the wind was blowing.

To me he's the Brigham Young of Christianity who inserted most of the doctrines of sin, hell, and Authoritarianism into Christianity. Seems weird to me that a guy whose previous job titles included persecuter and executor gets to wag his finger at the fucking Corinthians for all the butt stuff they're into.

Getting back to my views on Christianity, I'm presently as invested in the basic teachings of Christ as I ever was. But damn there's a lot of well deserved resentment seen by the church, and its alignment to the present iteration of the right wing has caused it to be as unapologetic as ever.

I got nothing wrong with a God that might exist. I just think the worst people on earth are his self appointed representatives.