NBA Chatter Thread

[Simpleton]

Since Butler is literally the only player aside from Rondo who provides any kind of competent ball handling/speed/playmaking they have no chance in this series. It's a shame because with Rondo they likely win at least one of the games in Chicago and have a strong shot to close it out in Game 6 at home, or in Boston really, but as it is they are a lock to go down 3-2 and then maybe Rondo comes back, maybe not, but it'll be too late.

Wade can do it in stretches but at 35 or whatever he is you will only get it in small spurts.

My favorite part of it all is that this scrub Cameron Payne that dumbass Forman insisted on trading Gibson/McDermott for can't even dress for a game when all the Bulls need is someone who can handle some of the ball handling responsibilities. I still stand by all my previous bitching about how shit the organization is run and there will never be any long term success until Forman, and perhaps Paxson, are fired.

 

[1bigfan13]

Since Butler is literally the only player aside from Rondo who provides any kind of competent ball handling/speed/playmaking they have no chance in this series. It's a shame because with Rondo they likely win at least one of the games in Chicago and have a strong shot to close it out in Game 6 at home, or in Boston really, but as it is they are a lock to go down 3-2 and then maybe Rondo comes back, maybe not, but it'll be too late.

Wade can do it in stretches but at 35 or whatever he is you will only get it in small spurts.

My favorite part of it all is that this scrub Cameron Payne that dumbass Forman insisted on trading Gibson/McDermott for can't even dress for a game when all the Bulls need is someone who can handle some of the ball handling responsibilities. I still stand by all my previous bitching about how shit the organization is run and there will never be any long term success until Forman, and perhaps Paxson, are fired.

Dude, you don't know how happy I was that Presti was able to get a couple of quality players for that scrub.

He's another guy that shouldn't be in the NBA. He should be in the D-League working on his game, getting minutes there. But since he was a lottery pick I guess there's some unwritten rule that you keep those guys on an NBA roster.

 

[Jiggyfly]

 

[Jiggyfly]

4th Quarter stats for all 5 games

Westbrook
14/49 FG. 28%
4/21 3pt. 19%
19/27 FT. 70%
-23

Harden
12/21 FG. 57%
5/13 3pt. 38%
18/22 FT. 82%
+30

 

[Jiggyfly]

 

[Texas Ace]

This series convinced me once and for all that Westbrook is the MVP.

How he ever got this team to the 6th seed in the West is beyond me.

He played his ass off last night and was completely spent in the 4th. Guy had nothing left.

If he had just a little help last night, OKC wins game 5. But just like for much of the season, his teammates didn't give him anywhere near enough.

 

[Jiggyfly]

This series convinced me once and for all that Westbrook is the MVP.

How he ever got this team to the 6th seed in the West is beyond me.

He played his ass off last night and was completely spent in the 4th. Guy had nothing left.

If he had just a little help last night, OKC wins game 5. But just like for much of the season, his teammates didn't give him anywhere near enough.

Yet Harden did not get this kind of love when he took a comparable team to the WCF in 2015.

That's the part I don't understand.

And if Lebron shot those percentages in the 4th quarter people would be killing him.

I admit Harden has better players around him but when did the argument change?

Using this logic Curry should never have been the MVP, he was playing with much more talent than anybody both years.

 

[Texas Ace]

Yet Harden did not get this kind of love when he took a comparable team to the WCF in 2015.

That's the part I don't understand.

True, which is why I said Harden should have won MVP that year.

And if Lebron shot those percentages in the 4th quarter people would be killing him.

Again, true.

But Westbrook doesn't have the reputation of shying away from taking the last shot, disappearing for long stretches in crunch time, or not having a history of making game-winning shots that Lebron carried with him up until recently.

I admit Harden has better players around him but when did the argument change?

Using this logic Curry should never have been the MVP, he was playing with much more talent than anybody both years.

It all depends on the season, though.

I think when it's so neck and neck like it was this year, the benefit usually goes to the guy who leads the lesser team.

Unfortunately, that didn't work for Harden in 2015, but is working against him this year. I think a reason for that is because Westbrook is having a historical season.

Harden was outstanding in 2015, but it wasn't historical. So Westbrook doing something that hasn't been done in 50 years or whatever is what is making his performance stand out more.

 

[Jiggyfly]

True, which is why I said Harden should have won MVP that year.




Again, true.

But Westbrook doesn't have the reputation of shying away from taking the last shot, disappearing for long stretches in crunch time, or not having a history of making game-winning shots that Lebron carried with him up until recently.



It all depends on the season, though.

I think when it's so neck and neck like it was this year, the benefit usually goes to the guy who leads the lesser team.

Unfortunately, that didn't work for Harden in 2015, but is working against him this year. I think a reason for that is because Westbrook is having a historical season.

Harden was outstanding in 2015, but it wasn't historical. So Westbrook doing something that hasn't been done in 50 years or whatever is what is making his performance stand out more.

But Westbrook has the reputation for shooting his team out of games and generally playing worse in the 4th quarter.

How does jacking up shots and losing(Westbrook) beat making the proper plays for your team to win games(Lebron).

Harden had a historical season as well he averaged only 2 less point and rebounds than Westbrook did and he attributed more points to his team than anybody outside of Tiny Archibald.

And his team had the better record and outperformed expectations by elevating the play of his teammates.

 

[1bigfan13]

4th Quarter stats for all 5 games

Westbrook
14/49 FG. 28%
4/21 3pt. 19%
19/27 FT. 70%
-23

Harden
12/21 FG. 57%
5/13 3pt. 38%
18/22 FT. 82%
+30

That tends to happen when one guy has to play damn near 40 minutes a night for his team to even have a chance. As Ace pointed out, Westbrook was usually dead tired by mid-4th quarter.

Harden would take his normal breaks and the Rockets would actually perform just as well while he was on the bench resting.

Meanwhile with OKC.....Westbrook goes to the bench with a 10 point lead and the lead is gone in less the 3 minutes. Last night for instance, Westbrook gets red hot and goes off in the 3rd quarter. OKC has all the momentum and a 5 point lead heading to the 4th quarter. Westbrook takes a breather and in literally 2 minutes the Rockets outscore the Thunder by 10.

Same story. Every. Freaking. Game.

Obviously they're not going to be as good with Westbrook on the bench, but the speed in which they relinquished leads while he was on the bench was flat out pathetic. Literally every time Westbrook took a breather the Rockets would outscore OKC by about 10 points over a 2-3 minute span. You can't win like that. The bench has to be able to put up some resistance.

 

[Texas Ace]

But Westbrook has the reputation for shooting his team out of games and generally playing worse in the 4th quarter.

How does jacking up shots and losing(Westbrook) beat making the proper plays for your team to win games(Lebron).

Harden had a historical season as well he averaged only 2 less point and rebounds than Westbrook did and he attributed more points to his team than anybody outside of Tiny Archibald.

And his team had the better record and outperformed expectations by elevating the play of his teammates.

Triple Double for the season.....let that set in.

He also averaged a triple double for the series.

And did you not see how awful they were without him in the game? In terms of most valuable, Westbrook fits that description to a tee and that was never more evident than it was in this series.

That team was literally nothing without him.

 

[1bigfan13]

But Westbrook has the reputation for shooting his team out of games and generally playing worse in the 4th quarter.

How does jacking up shots and losing(Westbrook) beat making the proper plays for your team to win games(Lebron).

Harden had a historical season as well he averaged only 2 less point and rebounds than Westbrook did and he attributed more points to his team than anybody outside of Tiny Archibald.

And his team had the better record and outperformed expectations by elevating the play of his teammates.

Westbrook definitely shot his team out the game in Game 2 and to a lesser degree last night.

Last night before the 4th quarter started I'd already braced myself for a 1-10 Westbrook quarter because I knew it was a close, closeout game and knowing his personality, I knew he was going to put it all on himself.

Prime example: I remember during one wild scramble with a couple minutes to play OKC had got several offensive boards but couldn't put the ball in the basket.....on one of the instances Grant was wide open under the basket for an easy dunk but Westbrook was so focused on trying to score himself that he missed out on an easy FG for OKC.

So that's definitely something that he needs to work on going forward. I'm not sure if a tiger can change his stripes 8 years into the league though. Especially if OKC is going to be relying on pretty much the same supporting cast. At least when they had KD there was another comparable talent on the floor who he had to defer to.

 

[Jiggyfly]

Triple Double for the season.....let that set in.

He also averaged a triple double for the series.

And did you not see how awful they were without him in the game? In terms of most valuable, Westbrook fits that description to a tee and that was never more evident than it was in this series.

That team was literally nothing without him.

Because IMO he never gave his teammates any confidence.

Rose did more with about the same level of talent, Harden did more with the same level of Talent.

Westbrook has to take some of the blame like every other superstar does.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

But Westbrook has the reputation for shooting his team out of games and generally playing worse in the 4th quarter.

Didn't he have the best clutch numbers in the league this year?

 

[Jiggyfly]

Westbrook definitely shot his team out the game in Game 2 and to a lesser degree last night.

Last night before the 4th quarter started I'd already braced myself for a 1-10 Westbrook quarter because I knew it was a close, closeout game and knowing his personality, I knew he was going to put it all on himself.

Prime example: I remember during one wild scramble with a couple minutes to play OKC had got several offensive boards but couldn't put the ball in the basket.....on one of the instances Grant was wide open under the basket for an easy dunk but Westbrook was so focused on trying to score himself that he missed out on an easy FG for OKC.

So that's definitely something that he needs to work on going forward. I'm not sure if a tiger can change his stripes 8 years into the league though. Especially if OKC is going to be relying on pretty much the same supporting cast. At least when they had KD there was another comparable talent on the floor who he had to defer to.

When he got hot in the 3rd, I was thinking about an epic melt down but once again he started jacking.

He started off the 4th getting other people involved he got Grant a couple of nice dunks and then it was all Russ.

He needs a veteran he respects on that team who can calm his ass down.

 

[Texas Ace]

When he got hot in the 3rd, I was thinking about an epic melt down but once again he started jacking.

He started off the 4th getting other people involved he got grant a couple of nice dunks and then it was all Russ.

He needs a veteran he respects on that team who can calm his ass down.

I would agree with that.

But he's such a strong personality that it would take a vet with some real stripes to do it.

 

[1bigfan13]

I've heard many who prefer Harden over Westbrook make the same argument about Harden only having 2 less points and rebounds than Westbrook. On the surface it's a valid point but when you don't actually accomplish the feat you tend to get overlooked. That's the way it is with most sports milestones & achievements.

In baseball for instance, several players have come close to achieving a triple crown but hardly anyone remembers the guy who fell 2 homeruns or 1 RBI short of the triple crown. But we'll remember the seasons of guys like Miguel Ortiz or Carl Yastrzemski who've actually pull off the feat.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that even though Harden had a great season in a few years people will probably vaguely remember what Harden did this year. Whereas when you actually accomplish a triple double it's memorable. People are going to be celebrating and referencing Westbrook's season for decades like they've done with Oscar's.

 

[Jiggyfly]

That tends to happen when one guy has to play damn near 40 minutes a night for his team to even have a chance. As Ace pointed out, Westbrook was usually dead tired by mid-4th quarter.

Harden would take his normal breaks and the Rockets would actually perform just as well while he was on the bench resting.

Meanwhile with OKC.....Westbrook goes to the bench with a 10 point lead and the lead is gone in less the 3 minutes. Last night for instance, Westbrook gets red hot and goes off in the 3rd quarter. OKC has all the momentum and a 5 point lead heading to the 4th quarter. Westbrook takes a breather and in literally 2 minutes the Rockets outscore the Thunder by 10.

Same story. Every. Freaking. Game.

Obviously they're not going to be as good with Westbrook on the bench, but the speed in which they relinquished leads while he was on the bench was flat out pathetic. Literally every time Westbrook took a breather the Rockets would outscore OKC by about 10 points over a 2-3 minute span. You can't win like that. The bench has to be able to put up some resistance.

They have had the lead 3 times going into the 4th quarter.

And Lebron played that many minutes with lesser teams in Cleveland and Harden did the same in 2015 and they actually won games.

It's amazing all of the excuses being afforded Westbrook over other guys who have done the same.

 

[Jiggyfly]

Here was Houstons roster in 2015 that went to the WCF.

1 Trevor Ariza SF
2 Patrick Beverley PG
10 Tarik Black C
33 Corey Brewer SF
0 Isaiah Canaan PG
15 Clint Capela C
30 Troy Daniels SG
8 Joey Dorsey PF
32 Francisco Garcia SF
13 James Harden SG
12 Dwight Howard C
3 Nick Johnson SG
6 Terrence Jones PF
32 K.J. McDaniels SG
20 Donatas Motiejunas
16 Kostas Papanikolaou
9 Pablo Prigioni
88 Alexey Shved
5 Josh Smith
31 Jason Terry

6 of these guys are not even in the NBA
7 of these guys are fringe rotation players

And 2 of the rotation guys missed the playoffs that year.

Harden averaged over 38 minutes a game that year.

Westbrook averaged 35 this year.

 

[1bigfan13]

They have had the lead 3 times going into the 4th quarter.

And Lebron played that many minutes with lesser teams in Cleveland and Harden did the same in 2015 and they actually won games.

It's amazing all of the excuses being afforded Westbrook over other guys who have done the same.

It's all about expectations and your status as a player.

Lebron is in his own category. That's why he's graded harder than anyone else in the game. His historical peer is Michael Jordan, for crying out loud.

No one is putting Westbrook in that conversation.

I don't remember Harden being crushed for losing games in 2015. IIRC, the big marks against him was the elimination game where he had something like 13 turnovers and some knocks on his bad defense.