Extending Pickens

Simpleton said:
The Lions are the exact reason why I don't want to hear shit about how difficult extending Pickens will be, how maybe we should cut Osa or Clark or whatever else to make room, or any other nonsense. All it comes down to is whether or not the assholes running this team have the motivation and desire to do what needs to be done, or if they want to just keep twiddling their thumbs with half measures and hoping for the best.

This assumes Pickens can be had for somewhere in the 30-35 range, which should obviously be the case considering that Chase is at 40, Jefferson is at 35 and Lamb is at 34. If he's pushing for 40 I think you just have to franchise him and look to trade him, but if he (and his asshole agent) are somewhat reasonable looking for something in that 30-35 range then it's more than manageable given the following:

Lions contract extensions > $20M per year:

Goff - $53, St. Brown - $30, Williams - $26.6, Sewell - $28, Decker - $20, Hutchinson - $45, McNeill - $24, Joseph - $21.5

That's 8 players at the top of their cap with extensions averaging $20M/year or higher, 5 on offense (1 QB/2 WR's) and 3 on defense, and while obviously it's an oversimplification to only look at the AAV, it's representative of the sort of salary structure they've been able to manage. Add all of those averages up and you have about a total of $248M in terms of AAV.

And aside from that the Lions have a few mid-tier guys with deals in the $10-20M range like DJ Reed (16), DJ Reader (11) and even a RB in Montgomery at about 9/year.

Now look at where we'd be at if we extend Pickens at 34/year, the same as Lamb:

Dak - $60, Lamb - $34, Pickens - $34, T. Smith - $24, Quinnen - $24, Clark - $21, Osa - $20, Bland - $22.5

Again, 8 players including 1 QB/2 WR's just like the Lions, and if you add that up you have a total of $239M.

We even have a similar structure with a few guys in that $10-20 range in terms of Ferguson (12.5), Steele (16.5) and a RB in Williams who might be in that Montgomery range of 9/year. And obviously Steele might even be gone after this year, so you might be able to clear those numbers off the books more or less.

Obviously I'm assuming Diggs will be long gone after this season.

So even if we extend Pickens at damn near the top of the WR market we'd still have a salary structure that is very similar as the Lions, with room for a few guys in the $10-20 range, plus two 1's in next year's draft to add to it.

So it's obviously doable, it's just a matter of whether these bitches have the balls to do it.
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Look,

I'm sorry but I wholeheartedly disagree,

You cannot pay Pickens more than Lamb, as a matter of fact, you can't pay Pickens more than T Higgins ,maybe around that, 30M MAX, there's no way I'm paying him more than 30 million, and by the way your little comparison to the Lions, their guys are not making anywhere near what our guys are making, and by the way, Lamb is more close to 39.5 when you look at the entire contract..

I would try to keep Pickens,

but the only thing that you said that makes sense is, yes, you franchise tag the guy, let him seek trades, see the offers, you can match the offers that they seem reasonable, but then you have to take the first round pick, because that's what I'm putting on him is a 1st round tender, and I am not paying two receivers $70 million combined and neither are the lions..

You Have to look at the cap hit,

CD lamb is making like 39.5 per season even though a lot of it you take at the end, but either way it still counts, prescott makes more than goff, Tyler Smith is making one of the highest paid contracts on the team, and I'm not trying to be Jerry here,

i'm being actually a real GM, Gms are not paying Pickens more than Lamb, you have to look at this as a Jamar Chase equals lamb, T Higgins equals Pickens ,that's how it needs to be ,you are not paying two receivers that kind of money, i'm capping it at 30,

that's it , I would not pay him a dime over 30, if he wants starting money, he is going elsewhere, you're trying to tell me we should pay two receivers high end starting money and no other team is doing that Your example says you're wrong, you're contradicting yourself...

The only teams that have done this up to this point are the Eagles and look there's a actual gap between AJ Brown and Smith they're on team friendly deals, and chase and T Higgins but there isn't very many other examples where you're paying both receivers premium number one starting money, that is not normal, and that is not happening when you still need to rebuild your defense..

I want the guy here, but not at that cost and there is realities you have to do something with Clark's contract or he is cut, and no we're not getting rid of OSA, that's also dumb fiscally, some of y'all don't look at like the real cap hits, dead cap money, and all that other stuff..

It does matter how you split up the pie, IT matters a lot and right now our defense needs more than our offense,

I would love to keep Pickens,

but not at that cost nowhere near that you're insane show me another team that has two wide receivers making premium money, i'm talking about top elite starter money ,and now you're talking about giving Pickens more than Lamb..

NOPE.
 
Simpleton said:
Yes but what if he's being completely ridiculous asking for 40+/year?

I'm good with anything up to about 35ish but there's a point where it does start to get a bit infeasible.

I think it's very unlikely that happens, but just throwing it out as a caveat.
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I don't think that's unlikely at all. I think that's exactly what he will do.

Did anyone expect Micah to get the deal he did? No, but it happened because the agent asked for the moon and someone gave it to him.
 
Simpleton said:
Yes but what if he's being completely ridiculous asking for 40+/year?

I'm good with anything up to about 35ish but there's a point where it does start to get a bit infeasible.

I think it's very unlikely that happens, but just throwing it out as a caveat.
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I disagree, you have to treat this like he's T Higgins, he is not Jamar Chase, That would be Lamb, $30 million is my cap, and I don't think Jerry would be stupid for allowing to walk, if he's wanting more than that..

Can you imagine what we could do with another first round pick this year?? if we put a 1st round tender on Pickens, it's not hurting our offense that bad with him being gone ,you can use a very creative way to turn some of those first rounders into multiple 2nd and 3rd round picks, and you can get a really good receiver in a deep receiver class.

You all act like this is life or death to keep this guy, and it's not being that desperate to keep your offense having that embarrassment of riches with ignoring some of the other parts of your team is not good fiscal responsibility IMHO....


that is how only a couple teams have set this up this way , show me all the other examples besides the Lions and the Eagles, and the Eagles are out because they're split is how it's supposed to be, The gap between your 1A and 1B has to be real, you cannot pay Pickens more than Lamb, not even close there needs to be a five or six million dollar gap between the two..IMO

You're looking at this like you're setting up your fantasy football team and you're Madden,

This is not this is real this team needs a lot on defense, We cannot keep doing this you sound like Jerry he wants a sparkly super offense and then forgets to take care of the defense, there's so many holes on defense ,that's what we're talking about not that we can't keep Osa or Clark but there needs to be some restructures The point is we need to keep them and we need to add more players. Realize that going into March that those three interior defensive tackles all make over 20 million right now the way it's set up and it'd be great to keep them and be great to add to the defense as well..

It's going to be a really big offseason, that's for sure ,there's a lot of tough decisions to be made.

they need to be very creative with their cap, who they cut who they keep, and who they're going to bring into this defense, is so far away we cannot pay are another receiver thirty five million dollars that's insane..

The fact is Cincinnati is not a good comp, because that is the problem ,they've overpaid at skilled positions ,they still have to figure out what to do with their offensive line and their defense is pretty much trash....

You mentioned the Lions, and I'm sorry but those splits are quite different, the pay scales are quite different the Cowboys,

WHO BTW, have restructured our guys to a point where the Jones family might not own the team when they're still paying that void year money for players that have been gone for 10 years you're probably still paying back the cap.......

I am not an anti George Pickens guy ,I really want him to be here ,but not at that cost, not even close..

like I said I think you're so far off and you're going to try to blame Jerry when he can't keep him and refuse to pay the 36 million he's going to ask for And that's just fan expectations and you'd be very wrong I'm more for getting a first round pick for him and getting a new WR2 in the draft.
 
Chocolate Lab said:
I don't think that's unlikely at all. I think that's exactly what he will do.

Did anyone expect Micah to get the deal he did? No, but it happened because the agent asked for the moon and someone gave it to him.
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Yes and that would be on another team, He can get $36 million easily as A WR1 somewhere else...

that's why you have to tag him with a first round tender, see what his offers are think about matching them, but it is unlikely the Cowboys are going to be able to afford to keep him, and then everyone's going to be angry at Jerry, but sometimes you have to make tough decisions and they can do a lot with that first round pick, they get for him..

There's been a lot of deep wide receiver drafts lately and this is one of them I'm not against taking a first rounder for him and then spending the money on defense...

Anybody who thinks George can't step on to another team and be the WR1 and be making big time money and that he won't take that with this agent and what just happened with Parsons you're right he will get that kind of money and Jerry would be stupid for matching it You cannot afford two receivers making that kind of money in my opinion there needs to be about A $5 million difference between Lamb and Pickens when you're offering him money and we're talking about on the low end that's why my cap would be 30..

Would not blame Jerry in the slightest for taking the first rounder over paying this guy over 30....
 
Smitty said:
Would be nice if Pickens would come in below Lamb and if Dak would take a paycut at some point.

Also with Quinnen and Clark getting big bucks, I'm not saying we HAVE to move Osa, but, why wouldn't you?

Are we really going to run a 3-4 with Quinnen, Clark and Osa? If Osa is just getting pass rusher rotation snaps the money can be better spent, even if you don't "have to," move him. You can't find a taker in a trade?
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Absolutely not You can't afford to you paid him all that bonus money nobody is eating that kind of contract for a guy who actually is playing well you don't think so but he's playing well here's the thing the guy you have to get convinced to take a pay cut restructure his deal and give you a team friendly deal that would be Clark...

Clarks contract is almost zero cap hit you cut him June 1st cut it costs you nothing nobody's cutting OSA after you just signed the man and he's playing a lot better than you all think when you go and look at professionals who grade the game he next to Williams is still just as dynamic as Clark..

But the key here is not overpaying Pickens so you can try to keep all three of them that would be great..

I guarantee you it won't be Osa leaving it will be Clark if they have to make the tough decision Clark is not going to be here..

Sure hope that answered your question because that's absolutely the truth there is no GM in this world that's cutting OSA and eating all that guaranteed bonus money he was paid up front this early in a contract that would be really dumb...

By the way they're not called pay cuts nobody is giving up money they're called restructures the team is not saving any money they're kicking the can down the road to multiple void years and paying the piper years after these players are gone..

Nobody tears their contracts up, it's not even legal and then like does a new contract no it's called a restructure and they've already done this to death they can't keep doing this to Prescott contracts they're not taking less money they're taking less of a cap hit now to fit other guys in but you're paying them down the road...

There is no such thing as a pay cut get that out of your mind that is a lie that is a made up word by the fan base you can't circumvent the cap that way those contracts can be restructured only and that is not a pay cut That is taking more money now but making it a less AAV so it's a less contract hit for that year so you can fit more people under it..
 
That's a lot of words there bucko but nobody is saying pay him significantly more than Lamb, in my scenario he got a deal at 34/year which is the same as Lamb, and which I think is fair given it'd be two years after Lamb's deal.

And I don't really care what prevailing wisdom on general team building is because every team's situation and timelines are unique. We're in a 3-5 year window right now with Dak in his prime or near prime that we should be looking to maximize given the trade for Williams. If we want to compete for a SB the easiest way to do it is to keep our elite passing game together while adding to the defense.

Could we trade him for a 1 and draft a rookie WR who gets up to speed quickly while using savings elsewhere?

Sure, but that's a lot of "if's" just to get back to sort of the same point we're already at.
 
Simpleton said:
Yes but what if he's being completely ridiculous asking for 40+/year?

I'm good with anything up to about 35ish but there's a point where it does start to get a bit infeasible.

I think it's very unlikely that happens, but just throwing it out as a caveat.
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I don't even care. There are reasons to trade him but money shouldn't be one of them.
 
One other random thing I'll mention in favor for moving quickly (which they may not be able to do depending on the asshole agent) is that Nacua and Smith-Njigba will be eligible for extensions after this season.

I don't think they'll surpass 40 but I could easily see them somewhere around 35-37, so getting a deal done even if it's possibly a bit of an overpay (33-35/year) might be worth it once those deals come in.
 
Simpleton said:
One other random thing I'll mention in favor for moving quickly (which they may not be able to do depending on the asshole agent) is that Nacua and Smith-Njigba will be eligible for extensions after this season.

I don't think they'll surpass 40 but I could easily see them somewhere around 35-37, so getting a deal done even if it's possibly a bit of an overpay (33-35/year) might be worth it once those deals come in.
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I will say they did sign Tyler Smith early but every other big payout they have waited on. Im not going to hold my breath hoping for it but will see if they have learned their lesson yet.
 
Rev said:
I will say they did sign Tyler Smith early but every other big payout they have waited on. Im not going to hold my breath hoping for it but will see if they have learned their lesson yet.
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Hopefully Tyler didn't do it only because he knew he had a bad knee... :tippytoe
 
Pay Pickens whatever and look to trade Lamb if it is a problem.

Pickens is the superior player.
 
I dont think Pickens is better. He is having a better statistical year this year because guess what -- Its a contract year. Keep doing it year after year like CD has and then we will see.
 
Rev said:
I dont think Pickens is better. He is having a better statistical year this year because guess what -- Its a contract year. Keep doing it year after year like CD has and then we will see.
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Agreed although they're both elite enough that they deserve to be paid near the top of the market, and more importantly they're better together and significantly increase our chances at competing for a SB.
 
Simpleton said:
That's a lot of words there bucko but nobody is saying pay him significantly more than Lamb, in my scenario he got a deal at 34/year which is the same as Lamb, and which I think is fair given it'd be two years after Lamb's deal.

And I don't really care what prevailing wisdom on general team building is because every team's situation and timelines are unique. We're in a 3-5 year window right now with Dak in his prime or near prime that we should be looking to maximize given the trade for Williams. If we want to compete for a SB the easiest way to do it is to keep our elite passing game together while adding to the defense.

Could we trade him for a 1 and draft a rookie WR who gets up to speed quickly while using savings elsewhere?

Sure, but that's a lot of "if's" just to get back to sort of the same point we're already at.
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And like I said I disagree if this is why there are opinions on here and mine says you're $4 million too high.. I'm paying the man $30 million he'll make him the highest paid 1b wr ie wr2 in the league , would it not?
 
Simpleton said:
Agreed although they're both elite enough that they deserve to be paid near the top of the market, and more importantly they're better together and significantly increase our chances at competing for a SB.
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I really don't agree with this how are they Better Together CD lamb had his career year he'll probably never match again and 2023 he and Dak played at an MVP level without Pickens without a dynamic run game..

Look I understand the dynamic having a guy to help take pressure off you but that's not how it's been working here And I think Lamb is a little bit frustrated and he hasn't said anything but I think he's losing focus not being the guy....

Started game one and he still has some of these very head scratching drops that he doesn't usually drop I realize he drops passes just like Jamar Chase at a little bit higher rate than most elite players but I'm sorry having two elite receivers is not how teams build your offense typically you want a really good WR 2 but he does not need to be elite that is spending money where you could be using it elsewhere on your team...

You're correct george Pickens deserves to be paid like an elite receiver that means he's gone He will be pushing for thirty six million and he can get that just about anywhere else that are craving a elite receiver they don't have one you know what kind of damage he can do in Buffalo.

And that's just off the top of my head but if he wants to go to a good team and still get paid a lot of money and have a chance to go to the playoffs and go to a Super Bowl he can get that elsewhere he does not need to stay here and take less why would he that's why I'm saying this is crazy 'cause you think Pickens with that agent Parsons agent is going to sit here and let him lose 5 million No he can get all the targets and be super happy making all that money elsewhere


I'm just being realistic Your expectations you expect Jerry to overpay him to keep him and I'm telling you that's a bad expectation that's not realistic and I believe George used the Cowboys so he can go get big time money and be the man somewhere else.
 
Simpleton said:
significantly increase our chances at competing for a SB.
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Really? That somehow just doesn't work for me we're sitting here under 500 we've lost to some teams we should have never lost a game to and they've both been on this team this whole entire year They both seem to have bigger games when they're on their own I mean you got a guy like Flournoy that can get over 100 yards and you're telling me we should overpay for Pickens because it guarantees us a better chance at the Super Bowl We're sitting here right now well under 500 and probably out of the playoffs and now you want to pay him even more and not use the money to make the team better so we are a better Super Bowl contender which would mean putting the money more on defense

Though I disagree you do what you can to keep him but you do not go beyond reality and overpay to keep this dude just like they didn't with Parsons...


The trade was necessary I realized there were antics and all that other social media circus stuff that went down but still this team was not a Parsons $47 million contract away from winning and it was better to get the freedom with the money in the draft picks and that might be the case with Pickens as well...


Not trying to be a hard head here I'm trying to set you guys up for reality he's probably not going to be here next year unless he does something against his nature and David his agent does something against his nature and gives the Cowboys a team friendly deal to remain here..

I just don't see that happening..
 
I'll say this, if the price is 30-35/year I think Jerry does it no problem, if he's asking for more than 35 (or maybe more than 34 since I could see Jerry not wanting to give him a bigger contract than Lamb) then it gets interesting and he might get tagged/traded.

I'm not worried about Lamb getting weird due to the lack of stats or whatever, and pretty much the only reason his stats are down a bit is because he basically missed 4 games.
 
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