2020 Random Cowboys Stuff Thread...

[Cowboysrock55]

Sounds like yet another negative assumption when the fact is that we don;t know either way. Only a workout and /or an invite to camp will answer that question one way or another.

Not really, I'm basing it on what he looked like before we cut him. Before he took 2 years off. And before he had a very serious injury. And sure I think it's a safe assumption to say he hasn't gotten faster or more explosive over those 2 years. If we need to look at guys to see if they have gotten faster or more athletic at the age of 31 without playing sports for 2 years than you have a really long list of guys who need brought in and looked at.

 

[p1_]

Even though this is chuckle-worthy due to the dumb ass choosing his words wrong again, the fact that he is even considering Bryant as a possible addition is utterly frightening.

and notice how Jerry is ALREADY contradicting MM. Sonofabitch.

 

[Stasheroo]

Not really, I'm basing it on what he looked like before we cut him. Before he took 2 years off. And before he had a very serious injury. And sure I think it's a safe assumption to say he hasn't gotten faster or more explosive over those 2 years. If we need to look at guys to see if they have gotten faster or more athletic at the age of 31 without playing sports for 2 years than you have a really long list of guys who need brought in and looked at.

And tell me and the rest what exactly Dez "looked like" before we cut him?

What were his 2017 numbers that are apparently so terrible?

And how do they compare to what now passes for good number on this team in 2019?

There is much more subjective opinion happening here than facts.

 

[Simpleton]

Jerry just talks bullshit, it's pretty clear that Stephen/McClay and presumably now McCarthy are really the ones making decisions. The fact that Witten feels the need to passive aggressively insinuate that he wants to be back in Dallas but that "maybe he has to look elsewhere" tells me that he knows it's likely he isn't coming back unless it's as a bit player.

If Jerry were unilaterally making decisions Witten would probably be the TE coach honestly.

 

[Stasheroo]

Rushing

Receiving

Rk

Player

From

To

AV

G

Att

Yds

TD

Y/A

Lng

Rec

Yds

TD

Y/R

Lng

1

Dez Bryant

2017​

2017​

8​

16​

1​

-4​

0​

-4​

-4​

69​

838​

6​

12.1​

50​

2

Amari Cooper

2019​

2019​

10​

16​

1​

6​

0​

6​

6​

79​

1189​

8​

15.1​

53 ​

Here's a direct comparison of 'washed up Dez Bryant' from 2017 compared to the guy this team is set to pay $20 million a year for.

Perspective.

 

[Genghis Khan]

Cooper's numbers are significantly better but to be fair to Dez, Cooper also had a much better QB throwing him the ball.

 

[Stasheroo]

Cooper's numbers are significantly better but to be fair to Dez, Cooper also had a much better QB throwing him the ball.

Would you classify them as '$20 million better'? That's the question.

Or ask yourself if you could deal with a guy with those 2017 numbers as your 4th receiver? That's another relevant question.

 

[Genghis Khan]

Would you classify them as '$20 million better'? That's the question.

Or ask yourself if you could deal with a guy with those 2017 numbers as your 4th receiver? That's another relevant question.

Given that we've seen the difference in the efficacy of the offense with and without Amari, yes. If you could guarantee me very close production and effectiveness mich cheaper, I'd be all for it. But I'd rather go with the devil I know than start back at square 1. I don't have much problem with amari's production for the price - especially given (a) the coaching staff last year wasn't wonderful, (b) his age, and (c) his level of talent suggests last season wasn't his ceiling.

As a 4th receiver Dez is highly unlikely to come anywhere near even those numbers. I'd rather get a young upside guy in the draft who might play special teams.

Now, if Cobb doesn't come back and Dez is potentially the 3rd WR the discussion changes (though I'm still worried if I can trust him).

 

[Stasheroo]

Given that we've seen the difference in the efficacy of the offense with and without Amari, yes. If you could guarantee me very close production and effectiveness mich cheaper, I'd be all for it. But I'd rather go with the devil I know than start back at square 1. I don't have much problem with amari's production for the price - especially given (a) the coaching staff last year wasn't wonderful, (b) his age, and (c) his level of talent suggests last season wasn't his ceiling.

You're mistaking this as some of an 'either/or' proposition when it is not that at all. Anything to do with Bryant has NOTHING to do with re-signing Cooper.

As a 4th receiver Dez is highly unlikely to come anywhere near even those numbers. I'd rather get a young upside guy in the draft who might play special teams.

Now, if Cobb doesn't come back and Dez is potentially the 3rd WR the discussion changes (though I'm still worried if I can trust him).

"Trust" is accomplished by giving no guarantees or significant salary. He even thinks about stepping out of line, and he's done with this team, and the NFL.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Would you classify them as '$20 million better'? That's the question.

Or ask yourself if you could deal with a guy with those 2017 numbers as your 4th receiver? That's another relevant question.

Yes, those numbers are awful for a number 1 WR.

Rushing

Receiving

Rk

Player

From

To

AV

G

Att

Yds

TD

Y/A

Lng

Rec

Yds

TD

Y/R

Lng

1

Dez Bryant

2017​

2017​

8​

16​

1​

-4​

0​

-4​

-4​

69​

838​

6​

12.1​

50​

2

Amari Cooper

2019​

2019​

10​

16​

1​

6​

0​

6​

6​

79​

1189​

8​

15.1​

53​

Here's a direct comparison of 'washed up Dez Bryant' from 2017 compared to the guy this team is set to pay $20 million a year for.




Perspective.

Yes absolutely. To add to those stats to put it in even better prospective. Cooper was thrown fewer balls than Dez, caught more of those balls than Dez and got far more yards when he did catch the ball. In terms of efficiency those stat lines are massively different. And yeah, if a guy is getting 133 targets 838 yards is actually kind of bad, which is what I said originally. Getting 1189 yards on 119 targets is actually really good.

This is like saying a RB who gets 800 yards with 3.3 yards per carry is essentially the same as a RB who gets 1189 yards with 5.3 yards per carry.

 

[Stasheroo]

Yes, those numbers are awful for a number 1 WR.


Yes absolutely. To add to those stats to put it in even better prospective. Cooper was thrown fewer balls than Dez, caught more of those balls than Dez and got far more yards when he did catch the ball. In terms of efficiency those stat lines are massively different. And yeah, if a guy is getting 133 targets 838 yards is actually kind of bad, which is what I said originally. Getting 1189 yards on 119 targets is actually really good.

It's not $20 million a year vs $1 million a year different. That's the point you keep wanting to ignore. And it's also not "this is my #1 receiver" vs "this is my #4 receiver" different. Which you will again try to ignore.

This is like saying a RB who gets 800 yards with 3.3 yards per carry is essentially the same as a RB who gets 1189 yards with 5.3 yards per carry.

No, this is like saying those numbers aren't bad for my #4 receiver. The truth.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

No, this is like saying those numbers aren't bad for my #4 receiver. The truth.

They are though. Because a fourth WR isn't going to get 133 targets. My fourth WR only getting 6 yards per target would be god awful.

That's like Witten last season productive.

 

[Genghis Khan]

You're mistaking this as some of an 'either/or' proposition when it is not that at all. Anything to do with Bryant has NOTHING to do with re-signing Cooper.



"Trust" is accomplished by giving no guarantees or significant salary. He even thinks about stepping out of line, and he's done with this team, and the NFL.

Seems to me I was answering your question. Maybe your question wasn't clear but I certainly never have looked at it as an either or thing, but then I'm not sure what sense you are trying to make by comparing the two.

In the context I presented of Dez as the 3rd WR, you have to trust him to some extent because it's all well and good to say you can cut him at any time, but if it comes to that you now have a huge hole at WR3. And yes, you can cover that by drafting or signing a reasonably competent 4th WR but at that point I'm not seeing the point of doing it at all if you have to cover your ass anyway. I'd just as soon resign Cobb and be done with it.

Admittedly Dez vs an opponent's 3rd CB is intriguing but I doubt you'd get more from that role than you did from Cobb.

 

[Stasheroo]

Seems to me I was answering your question. Maybe your question wasn't clear but I certainly never have looked at it as an either or thing, but then I'm not sure what sense you are trying to make by comparing the two.

Simply to put to rest the false claims that 'Dez was done' when he was released.

In the context I presented of Dez as the 3rd WR, you have to trust him to some extent because it's all well and good to say you can cut him at any time, but if it comes to that you now have a huge hole at WR3. And yes, you can cover that by drafting or signing a reasonably competent 4th WR but at that point I'm not seeing the point of doing it at all if you have to cover your ass anyway. I'd just as soon resign Cobb and be done with it.

Admittedly Dez vs an opponent's 3rd CB is intriguing but I doubt you'd get more from that role than you did from Cobb.

That's why I have specifically said 4th receiver with Dez. I would bring back Cobb as the third, and I'm sure McCarthy would too.

 

[p1_]

Dez as a 4th receiver would have to be a core ST player, meaning both kickoff and punt coverage and return units. And that shit just ain't happenin.

 

[Stasheroo]

Dez as a 4th receiver would have to be a core ST player, meaning both kickoff and punt coverage and return units. And that shit just ain't happenin.

Really? Who exactly was our 4th receiver that was doing that last year?

 

[p1_]

Really? Who exactly was our 4th receiver that was doing that last year?

Ventell Bryant, Tavon Austin and Cedrick Wilson

 

[jsmith6919]

Ventell Bryant, Tavon Austin and Cedrick Wilson

Yep supposedly that was why Devin Smith was kept deactivated on gamedays because he wasn't as good at ST's

 

[jsmith6919]

 

[boozeman]

Yeah I just don't see the value. What's his role, fourth or fifth WR? Is he going to play special teams? Use him in goal line situations only?

I have serious doubt about his speed and explosiveness still being there and I don't think he has ever been a crafty and technically sound WR. Just draft one, makes way more sense.

He has zero value unless you reserve him on a Madden team for your special plays.