Trump fires FBI Director James Comey.

[L.T. Fan]

Are you really this dense?

What you mention here as far as Clapper's comments months ago has nothing to do with the comment from him that I posted.

Even if Trump and anybody he's ever met are 100% innocent and never did anything even remotely close to what people are insinuating as far as the Russia allegations/rumors, you can't see how the possibility of a President firing an FBI director in order to favorably influence an investigation for him and those close to him is an issue?

My point with the Clapper comment has nothing to do with whether or not anything Russia-related is true. It's that Clapper, a guy who has served at the highest positions in the I.C., has serious concerns about the President undermining our institutions and way of governance by basically using his power to get rid of those he sees as political opponents.

You on the other hand want to just deflect and brush all of this off as business as usual.

I'm sure if Clinton was the President and was doing all this shit you'd be responding exactly the same.

My point is simple about Clapper. He has no credibility with me so his comments and opinions about the President is absurd with no tangible evidence for his statement. It is irresponsible for him to say it without a basis other than the hysteria and hatred of the "resist mentality". If there is a basis for this kind of allegation he should point out why he has stated it. As far as I am concerned he is just planting fear tactics with this kind of dialogue.

 

[2233boys]

Clapper, The Media, the FBI, Congress, every one else has no credibility but Trump and the acolytes in his administration do, when they have been shown to lie repeatedly. You got to love the Cult of Trump.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Democrats are as bad. The make up stories that are baseless and their followers buy into it not bothering to know whether it is baseless or request confirmation because their mindset is to resist. Who is worse?

 

[Simpleton]

Clapper, The Media, the FBI, Congress, every one else has no credibility but Trump and the acolytes in his administration do, when they have been shown to lie repeatedly. You got to love the Cult of Trump.

Exactly.

One of the most experienced I.C. professionals in the country, who held very high level positions under both Republican and Democrat administrations, gives his opinion on a move that was completely unprecedented and yet he has no credibility.

But the carnival barker in the White House, all the credibility in the world.

 

[Simpleton]

Democrats are as bad. The make up stories that are baseless and their followers buy into it not bothering to know whether it is baseless or request confirmation because their mindset is to resist. Who is worse?

Just as I said, this is nothing but a game of political tit for tat/scorekeeping to blind partisans like you.

Keep everything else the same and all you'd have to do is change the name Trump (or any other Republican) to Clinton (or any other Democrat) to get you to flip your views 180 degrees, that's why it's not even worth discussing shit like this with people like you.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Just as I said, this is nothing but a game of political tit for tat/scorekeeping to blind partisans like you.

Keep everything else the same and all you'd have to do is change the name Trump (or any other Republican) to Clinton (or any other Democrat) to get you to flip your views 180 degrees, that's why it's not even worth discussing shit like this with people like you.

Doesn't that fit everyone? We just wear different t shirts. But of course most will deny it. I don't deny that I now support Trump. He is our President. Those who are malcontent about that will just have to live with it even though they feel they are above it all. I have seen many generations with the same habits.

 

[townsend]

It's important to understand that the reason Marine Le Pen got thrashed in the runoff was because center left and center right parties backed Macron. We didn't get moderate Republicans backing the moderate democrat because of this cultish right wing partisanship.

I said it before, and I'll say it again. If Jill Stein had somehow made it to the general with the democrat nomination a lot of Hillary Clinton's moderate base would have voted for the Republican Nominee, if it was Romney or Kasich. Hell Bernie Sanders may have been too left leaning for a lot of more conservative democrats. There's a reason he lost by millions of votes in the primaries.

The fact is Republicans have been so sucked into the us vs. them dynamic (thanks Fox News) that they think anyone who's willing to vote for a democrat is a lefty liberal pinko commie, and not to be trusted. That includes fake ass libertarians too.

I'm not saying it doesn't exist on the other side. There are plenty of people who think that Kasich is just as bad as Paul Ryan, who is just as bad as Trump, and those people are fringe hacks. It just seems that no one who identifies as a "conservative" isn't prone to that kind of hack logic.

 

[BipolarFuk]

Waiting for LT to remind us he is a DINO.

 

[Simpleton]

Doesn't that fit everyone? We just wear different t shirts. But of course most will deny it. I don't deny that I now support Trump. He is our President. Those who are malcontent about that will just have to live with it even though they feel they are above it all. I have seen many generations with the same habits.

Maybe your loyalty should be to the country and the foundations on which it was built and not a political party, if that were the case you'd see what Clapper was trying to say as opposed to reflexively defending Republicans and bashing Democrats.

But I get that it's human nature to pick sides, it makes people feel comfortable, wanted, protected.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Maybe your loyalty should be to the country and the foundations on which it was built and not a political party, if that were the case you'd see what Clapper was trying to say as opposed to reflexively defending Republicans and bashing Democrats.

But I get that it's human nature to pick sides, it makes people feel comfortable, wanted, protected.

I think my loyalty to the country has been achieved by my military and government service. For you to espouse loyalty and at the same time divisiveness of the current duly elected leadership with the same breath is something that I don't understand. Because you don't like the current leader it seems to give you a license to ridicule anyone that doesn't see things the same way you do. What is there in that mindset that gives anyone the right to question loyalties and questionable intelligence. It strikes me as an elitist mentality.

 

[townsend]

I think my loyalty to the country has been achieved by my military and government service. For you to espouse loyalty and at the same time divisiveness of the current duly elected leadership with the same breath is something that I don't understand. Because you don't like the current leader it seems to give you a license to ridicule anyone that doesn't see things the same way you do. What is there in that mindset that gives anyone the right to question loyalties and questionable intelligence. It strikes me as an elitist mentality.

Being a veteran doesn't make you loyal. Benedict Arnold was a veteran. So was Mike Flynn.

Loyalty to the country doesn't mean loyalty to the party in power. It's loyalty to the ideals of the nation. This is why Comey didn't want to pledge loyalty to Trump. Because his loyalty was to the constitution, and the rule of law, which Trump was trying to subvert.

During McCarthyism, during the Civil Rights movement, during watergate, the boldest, most patriotic people were the ones to question authority, not the ones who submitted to it.

I imagine it's usually the first step when a movement becomes a cult is when The Leader is allowed to remake all the rules, exempt himself from them, and then declare that no one queston his supremacy. You are chugging kool aid.

 

[Simpleton]

Being a veteran doesn't make you loyal. Benedict Arnold was a veteran. So was Mike Flynn.

Loyalty to the country doesn't mean loyalty to the party in power. It's loyalty to the ideals of the nation. This is why Comey didn't want to pledge loyalty to Trump. Because his loyalty was to the constitution, and the rule of law, which Trump was trying to subvert.

During McCarthyism, during the Civil Rights movement, during watergate, the boldest, most patriotic people were the ones to question authority, not the ones who submitted to it.

I imagine it's usually the first step when a movement becomes a cult is when The Leader is allowed to remake all the rules, exempt himself from them, and then declare that no one queston his supremacy. You are chugging kool aid.

Exactly.

I'd also throw in that if all the current circumstances remained exactly the same and all you did was replace Trump/Republican with Clinton/Democrat LT here would have a completely opposite view of the situation. That tells me the priority is not the truth or what is right, it's protecting a party and/or attacking the other.

So in that regard, yes, I am elitist, because I don't sit here and change my views on what is right or wrong based on what party is making the decisions and I think people who do that are complete jackasses.

 

[2233boys]

It's important to understand that the reason Marine Le Pen got thrashed in the runoff was because center left and center right parties backed Macron. We didn't get moderate Republicans backing the moderate democrat because of this cultish right wing partisanship.

I said it before, and I'll say it again. If Jill Stein had somehow made it to the general with the democrat nomination a lot of Hillary Clinton's moderate base would have voted for the Republican Nominee, if it was Romney or Kasich. Hell Bernie Sanders may have been too left leaning for a lot of more conservative democrats. There's a reason he lost by millions of votes in the primaries.

The fact is Republicans have been so sucked into the us vs. them dynamic (thanks Fox News) that they think anyone who's willing to vote for a democrat is a lefty liberal pinko commie, and not to be trusted. That includes fake ass libertarians too.

I'm not saying it doesn't exist on the other side. There are plenty of people who think that Kasich is just as bad as Paul Ryan, who is just as bad as Trump, and those people are fringe hacks. It just seems that no one who identifies as a "conservative" isn't prone to that kind of hack logic.

To be fair the reason he lost in the primaries has less to do with his supposed left leanings. The Media said it was over before Iowa even voted, by counting in Super Delegate votes. The media, gave five Republican candidates—Trump, Jeb Bush, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, and Ben Carson—more coverage than Sanders during 2015 and that Clinton herself received three times as much press.

The DNC completely changed their format of debates, to expose Clinton less, and to minimize Bernie's Exposure. In the Russian Hack, DNC emails showed that Clinton received questions to debates prior to the debate, the hierarchy of the DNC was in the bag and pulling whatever strings it could to help her along.

It is what it is now. I vote for a lot of democrats because they more so say the believe in the things I believe in, but have voted for republicans as well (many times).

 

[2233boys]

I didn't get the note that because I served in the military that I had to support the President implicitly. I moved since getting discharged, maybe it was lost in the mail.

“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

― Theodore Roosevelt

 

[townsend]

To be fair the reason he lost in the primaries has less to do with his supposed left leanings. The Media said it was over before Iowa even voted, by counting in Super Delegate votes. The media, gave five Republican candidates—Trump, Jeb Bush, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, and Ben Carson—more coverage than Sanders during 2015 and that Clinton herself received three times as much press.

The DNC completely changed their format of debates, to expose Clinton less, and to minimize Bernie's Exposure. In the Russian Hack, DNC emails showed that Clinton received questions to debates prior to the debate, the hierarchy of the DNC was in the bag and pulling whatever strings it could to help her along.

It is what it is now. I vote for a lot of democrats because they more so say the believe in the things I believe in, but have voted for republicans as well (many times).

I voted for Bernie in the primary. But I honestly think Hillary would have been a better president. I think Bernie was a little out of his depth on a lot of topics Hillary could teach a clinic on. Bernie did a great job on selling his message, but once you moved away from "system is rigged" and "Millionaires and Billionaires" he had some very narrow talking points.

That being said, I think it is important to push the platform a little further left. Since Democrats were becoming the new Republicans as Republicans devolved into the National Front.

 

[2233boys]

I voted for Bernie in the primary. But I honestly think Hillary would have been a better president. I think Bernie was a little out of his depth on a lot of topics Hillary could teach a clinic on. Bernie did a great job on selling his message, but once you moved away from "system is rigged" and "Millionaires and Billionaires" he had some very narrow talking points.

That being said, I think it is important to push the platform a little further left. Since Democrats were becoming the new Republicans as Republicans devolved into the National Front.

See I disagree. I watched ever debate, every speech that either candidate did, and didn't get that perspective. (Either Hillary's wide breathe of knowledge, or that Bernie's focus was that narrow)

Not saying Hillary didn't have that knowledge, nor that Bernie didn't get to focused in on economic inequality. I think it is unfair to narrow his message as just that, the media did that often.

Of course maybe, I am just a Bernie Fanboy.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Being a veteran doesn't make you loyal. Benedict Arnold was a veteran. So was Mike Flynn.

Loyalty to the country doesn't mean loyalty to the party in power. It's loyalty to the ideals of the nation. This is why Comey didn't want to pledge loyalty to Trump. Because his loyalty was to the constitution, and the rule of law, which Trump was trying to subvert.

During McCarthyism, during the Civil Rights movement, during watergate, the boldest, most patriotic people were the ones to question authority, not the ones who submitted to it.

I imagine it's usually the first step when a movement becomes a cult is when The Leader is allowed to remake all the rules, exempt himself from them, and then declare that no one queston his supremacy. You are chugging kool aid.

I don't need a loyalty lesson . Spout you BS somewhere else.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Being a veteran doesn't make you loyal. Benedict Arnold was a veteran. So was Mike Flynn.

Loyalty to the country doesn't mean loyalty to the party in power. It's loyalty to the ideals of the nation. This is why Comey didn't want to pledge loyalty to Trump. Because his loyalty was to the constitution, and the rule of law, which Trump was trying to subvert.

During McCarthyism, during the Civil Rights movement, during watergate, the boldest, most patriotic people were the ones to question authority, not the ones who submitted to it.

I imagine it's usually the first step when a movement becomes a cult is when The Leader is allowed to remake all the rules, exempt himself from them, and then declare that no one queston his supremacy. You are chugging kool aid.

You are a waste of time.

 

[L.T. Fan]

I didn't get the note that because I served in the military that I had to support the President implicitly. I moved since getting discharged, maybe it was lost in the mail.

“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

― Theodore Roosevelt

I really don't expect for you to get it and I don't care.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Exactly.

I'd also throw in that if all the current circumstances remained exactly the same and all you did was replace Trump/Republican with Clinton/Democrat LT here would have a completely opposite view of the situation. That tells me the priority is not the truth or what is right, it's protecting a party and/or attacking the other.

So in that regard, yes, I am elitist, because I don't sit here and change my views on what is right or wrong based on what party is making the decisions and I think people who do that are complete jackasses.

You are simply someone that thinks their thought process is the only valid thing going. I have news for you it isn't.