Jaylon Smith Watch Thread...

[Cowboysrock55]

He may in fact be fine at some point in time but you must admit that the window is closing and since he is still wearing a brace that deserves a certain amount of concern.

What window? He is basically on the exact timeline that we were all told when we drafted the guy. You're inventing something in your head based on half knowledge of a medical condition. I have read and seen no indication that there has been any set backs or that he isn't progressing as quickly as expected. When we drafted him we all knew he wouldn't play his rookie year. The fact that he was physically well enough to play in the playoffs tells me he is right on that same track. People need to stop inventing stuff to worry about.

 

[Simpleton]

You're stretching real hard with that list of names to justify Reddick. Makes way more sense to hope Reddick falls to the second round. The guy was a third day pick before the Senior Bowl. I like him but I think your love may be over the top. Reddick was a good player at Temple but I don't think he did anything that makes me think he is a high impact NFL guy. He had 9.5 sacks at Temple this past year as a 230 pound guy who is faster then anyone trying to block him. And as much as I love Jaleel Johnson, he isn't going to make up for passing on a top notch pass rusher in the first. He is a 315 pound DT. Neither will Brantley and his 2.5 sacks from Florida. Or really any of the other DT's you mentioned.

If you pass on a pass rusher in the first. Then in the late second you're basically praying that Carl Lawson, Jordan Willis, or Demarcus Walker makes it to your second round pick. I'm not so sure any of those 3 make it. Walker is an interesting guy though. Seems like he would be right up our alley. 6'4" 280 pound guy who is probably a LE/DT tweener. Someone who can play any position on the D-line. He was crazy productive this last year at FSU with 16 sacks.

You know what would make all of this really easy? An extra second round pick from Romo... I think a second round pick on a guy like Reddick is perfect. You can afford sort of the luxury pick then.

And you seem to be stretching to make sure that we pick a DE in the first 2 rounds, which as you know is no guarantee with how this organization operates. Of course I want a DE early but I'm prepared for it not to happen.

Reddick was not a day 3 pick before the Senior Bowl, he was a 2nd, maybe early 3rd, and since the Senior Bowl he is almost universally being mocked in the first round, many times before 28. If he runs in the 4.5's you can take it to the bank that he will be a near lock to go in the 1st, top 40 at the worst. And he racked up 9.5 sacks playing a role that I don't think suits him best, there were times where he was going up against 300 lb LT's in the role of a pure DE at 6-1, 235, I think he will be much more effective coming on blitzes/stunts and not just rushing off the edge which is what he primarily did at Temple.

As for the other guys you mention, Caleb Brantley is a better pass-rusher than his stats indicate and Jordan Willis will probably be available in the 3rd, let alone the 2nd.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

And you seem to be stretching to make sure that we pick a DE in the first 2 rounds, which as you know is no guarantee with how this organization operates. Of course I want a DE early but I'm prepared for it not to happen.

Reddick was not a day 3 pick before the Senior Bowl, he was a 2nd, maybe early 3rd, and since the Senior Bowl he is almost universally being mocked in the first round, many times before 28. If he runs in the 4.5's you can take it to the bank that he will be a near lock to go in the 1st, top 40 at the worst. And he racked up 9.5 sacks playing a role that I don't think suits him best, there were times where he was going up against 300 lb LT's in the role of a pure DE at 6-1, 235, I think he will be much more effective coming on blitzes/stunts and not just rushing off the edge which is what he primarily did at Temple.

As for the other guys you mention, Caleb Brantley is a better pass-rusher than his stats indicate and Jordan Willis will probably be available in the 3rd, let alone the 2nd.

I do really want a DE in the first round. I think there is a pretty substantial drop off after the Taco Charleton/Charles Harris types. And maybe they are all gone by our first round pick. I'm not trying to suggest that we reach for the next tier of DE's at that point by lets say taking Walker in the first round. And I'm certainly prepared for Dallas to not take a DE in the first.

What I'm not prepared for is a jack knife like Reddick in the first round. Kiper prior to the Senior Bowl for example didn't have this guy in the top 10 of any position on his draft board. I'd love to see who was projecting him as a second round pick before the Senior Bowl because I call shenanigans. A former walk-on at a small school, one year wonder, who you want to play a position he has never played in the NFL just does not give me warm and fuzzy feelings in the first round. And also it happens to be a position that is not a big need for our defense. Everything about it would feel forced.

And as far as Willis you may be right. I listed him because Kiper's newest rankings have him at 9 for the DEs. (Reddick by the way went from no where to be seen to his third OLBer behind Tim Williams). I'm not real high on Willis. Not a freak athlete and just doesn't seem to have the ability to lower his shoulder and turn the corner. And you're a Florida guy so I feel like I have this discussion with you on a yearly basis about some Florida DT that put up really poor sack numbers but it being ranked really high. It's always someone like Bullard, Easley, Floyd or Fowler. They just seem to be overrated to me. But I know we've both talked about all those guys over recent years.

 

[L.T. Fan]

What window? He is basically on the exact timeline that we were all told when we drafted the guy. You're inventing something in your head based on half knowledge of a medical condition. I have read and seen no indication that there has been any set backs or that he isn't progressing as quickly as expected. When we drafted him we all knew he wouldn't play his rookie year. The fact that he was physically well enough to play in the playoffs tells me he is right on that same track. People need to stop inventing stuff to worry about.

The medical window. And I m not inventing that nor did I just roll it out of my head. I know something about this condition and the medical approach to dealing with it. Maybe it would help if you checked out the foot drop syndrome commonly called drop foot.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

The medical window. And I m not inventing that nor did I just roll it out of my head. I know something about this condition and the medical approach to dealing with it. Maybe it would help if you checked out the foot drop syndrome commonly called drop foot.

I've read all kinds of stuff on drop foot. I'm well aware of what it is and how it impacts a person. I've also read probably everything there is to know about Jaylon Smith's progress. And your concern over his progress is totally unfounded.

 

[Simpleton]

I do really want a DE in the first round. I think there is a pretty substantial drop off after the Taco Charleton/Charles Harris types. And maybe they are all gone by our first round pick. I'm not trying to suggest that we reach for the next tier of DE's at that point by lets say taking Walker in the first round. And I'm certainly prepared for Dallas to not take a DE in the first.

What I'm not prepared for is a jack knife like Reddick in the first round. Kiper prior to the Senior Bowl for example didn't have this guy in the top 10 of any position on his draft board. I'd love to see who was projecting him as a second round pick before the Senior Bowl because I call shenanigans. A former walk-on at a small school, one year wonder, who you want to play a position he has never played in the NFL just does not give me warm and fuzzy feelings in the first round. And also it happens to be a position that is not a big need for our defense. Everything about it would feel forced.

And as far as Willis you may be right. I listed him because Kiper's newest rankings have him at 9 for the DEs. (Reddick by the way went from no where to be seen to his third OLBer behind Tim Williams). I'm not real high on Willis. Not a freak athlete and just doesn't seem to have the ability to lower his shoulder and turn the corner. And you're a Florida guy so I feel like I have this discussion with you on a yearly basis about some Florida DT that put up really poor sack numbers but it being ranked really high. It's always someone like Bullard, Easley, Floyd or Fowler. They just seem to be overrated to me. But I know we've both talked about all those guys over recent years.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjD5JaTvoPSAhXC5yYKHbTRAf4QFggaMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbssports.com%2Fnfl%2Fdraft%2Fnews%2Fnfl-draft-top-50-draft-board-1-0-defense-rules-in-a-top-10-with-no-qbs%2F&usg=AFQjCNEFpwBIpeK6gD3oA5rDMKBBSTZ2pg&bvm=bv.146496531,d.eWE

38th overall according to Brugler a week before the Senior Bowl.

And he was not a one year wonder, he had 13 TFL and 5 sacks as a junior.

He measured in at 6-1, 237 at the Senior Bowl, you know who else measured in at that exact height/weight at the Combine a few years ago?

Ryan Shazier, the guy we were going to take over Zack Martin. Another highly athletic LB who could run, cover and blitz.

If Reddick "blows up" the Combine (not necessarily to the point of running a sub-4.4 like Shazier but let's say high 4.4's/low 4.5's with an impressive vertical, 3 cone, etc.) I wouldn't be surprised if he became a preferred target at 28 and not just a fall back.

Again, I'm all about taking one of the top DE's but it's foolish to dismiss Reddick immediately, especially if Barnett, Charlton, McKinley, and Harris are gone.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjD5JaTvoPSAhXC5yYKHbTRAf4QFggaMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbssports.com%2Fnfl%2Fdraft%2Fnews%2Fnfl-draft-top-50-draft-board-1-0-defense-rules-in-a-top-10-with-no-qbs%2F&usg=AFQjCNEFpwBIpeK6gD3oA5rDMKBBSTZ2pg&bvm=bv.146496531,d.eWE

38th overall according to Brugler a week before the Senior Bowl.

And he was not a one year wonder, he had 13 TFL and 5 sacks as a junior.

He measured in at 6-1, 237 at the Senior Bowl, you know who else measured in at that exact height/weight at the Combine a few years ago?

Ryan Shazier, the guy we were going to take over Zack Martin. Another highly athletic LB who could run, cover and blitz.

If Reddick "blows up" the Combine (not necessarily to the point of running a sub-4.4 like Shazier but let's say high 4.4's/low 4.5's with an impressive vertical, 3 cone, etc.) I wouldn't be surprised if he became a preferred target at 28 and not just a fall back.

Again, I'm all about taking one of the top DE's but it's foolish to dismiss Reddick immediately, especially if Barnett, Charlton, McKinley, and Harris are gone.

Props to Bruglar, every where else I saw listed him as a third at the very highest. And yeah, 5 sacks for him as a JR at a shit school like Temple is not good in my opinion. At Temple, as a pass rusher? 5 sacks is not good. And yes we were interested in Shazier who ran a sub 4.4 forty. We also didn't have Jaylon Smith who runs a 4.4 forty sitting on the roster at the time either.

I almost feel bad talking negative about Reddick because I like him. I really do. I think he is a way different player then Shazier who I wasn't that high on. But I don't think he is a fit for the Cowboys. It's a square peg in a round hole in the first. But he is a player who I'd like on my team. Just not over the an impact player at a position of real need.

 

[L.T. Fan]

I've read all kinds of stuff on drop foot. I'm well aware of what it is and how it impacts a person. I've also read probably everything there is to know about Jaylon Smith's progress. And your concern over his progress is totally unfounded.

They may but don't be so smug about it. Again if he is still wearing a brace there is a possibility that the nerve impulses are still limited. That's the part of the development that there is concern as to whether he can get to a place where he doesn't have to wear a brace and whether there will de some negative connotations to the recovery. As I recall his injury happened approximately 14 months ago and that is within a time frame to where the chance of a full recovery is highly questionable. I'm done.

 

[Simpleton]

Props to Bruglar, every where else I saw listed him as a third at the very highest. And yeah, 5 sacks for him as a JR at a shit school like Temple is not good in my opinion. At Temple, as a pass rusher? 5 sacks is not good. And yes we were interested in Shazier who ran a sub 4.4 forty. We also didn't have Jaylon Smith who runs a 4.4 forty sitting on the roster at the time either.

I almost feel bad talking negative about Reddick because I like him. I really do. I think he is a way different player then Shazier who I wasn't that high on. But I don't think he is a fit for the Cowboys. It's a square peg in a round hole in the first.

You think it's a square peg primarily because you don't want to take a LB with that high of a pick. It's pretty obvious when you start throwing out stuff about Temple being a "shit" school. They went 10-4 the last two years and won their conference championship this year. Obviously they aren't playing in the SEC but they aren't Jacksonville St., they're playing teams in the top 25 every year.

Do you see me advocating to take Raekwon McMillan or Jarrad Davis at 28?

No, because I'm going where the talent takes me and I could see a scenario where Reddick is the BPA or damn close to it at 28, and I could see him providing an interesting dynamic to the defense as a pass-rusher from a traditional LB role. Combine that with the fact that both Lee and Smith are injury risks and it's not that difficult to see why he could be a nice pick.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

You think it's a square peg primarily because you don't want to take a LB with that high of a pick. It's pretty obvious when you start throwing out stuff about Temple being a "shit" school. They went 10-4 the last two years and won their conference championship this year. Obviously they aren't playing in the SEC but they aren't Jacksonville St., they're playing teams in the top 25 every year.

Do you see me advocating to take Raekwon McMillan or Jarrad Davis at 28?

No, because I'm going where the talent takes me and I could see a scenario where Reddick is the BPA or damn close to it at 28, and I could see him providing an interesting dynamic to the defense as a pass-rusher from a traditional LB role. Combine that with the fact that both Lee and Smith are injury risks and it's not that difficult to see why he could be a nice pick.

You're right, I don't want to invest our first round pick in a 4-3 LBer. But I also recognize that the defense we run won't take advantage of his pass rushing skills. I recognize that you're still asking a player to play a position on defense that is totally foreign to him. And it's too many questions for me to use on a first round pick. A guy who essentially we need to "create" a position on our defense to use.

Sorry if I didn't give Temple enough respect for your taste. Reddicks sacks came against Stony Brook, SMU, Memphis, UCF, UConn, Tulane and Wake Forrest. That is a shit schedule. I don't see how you could argue otherwise.

 

[Simpleton]

You're right, I don't want to invest our first round pick in a 4-3 LBer. But I also recognize that the defense we run won't take advantage of his pass rushing skills. I recognize that you're still asking a player to play a position on defense that is totally foreign to him. And it's too many questions for me to use on a first round pick. A guy who essentially we need to "create" a position on our defense to use.

Sorry if I didn't give Temple enough respect for your taste. Reddicks sacks came against Stony Brook, SMU, Memphis, UCF, UConn, Tulane and Wake Forrest. That is a shit schedule. I don't see how you could argue otherwise.

They played Penn St. to a stand still on the road and he had 3 TFL in that game, so he must be doing something right.

Anyway, if this was last year I'd agree as far as him not being a fit but Marinelli really changed things up this year as far as bringing different types of blitzes, especially from LB's and DB's. If we were to run similar stuff next year I don't think we'd have to change anything for him to fit in.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

They played Penn St. to a stand still on the road and he had 3 TFL in that game, so he must be doing something right.

Anyway, if this was last year I'd agree as far as him not being a fit but Marinelli really changed things up this year as far as bringing different types of blitzes, especially from LB's and DB's. If we were to run similar stuff next year I don't think we'd have to change anything for him to fit in.

Penn State was the only real quality opponent. It would be interesting to go back and see how he played in that game. I watch a ton of Big Ten football but lets face it, Temple/Penn State wasn't on the top of my radar as a game to watch. And I feel bad talking bad about Reddick because I really think he would be a good player in Dallas. But I don't see him playing in the nickle over Sean Lee or Jaylon Smith. Which means we probably don't see his real impact until Lee retires or gets hurt. Or we create a special role for him.

And if Ryan Shazier was there at 28 in this draft, I probably wouldn't take him either.

 

[Genghis Khan]

Props to Bruglar, every where else I saw listed him as a third at the very highest. And yeah, 5 sacks for him as a JR at a shit school like Temple is not good in my opinion. At Temple, as a pass rusher? 5 sacks is not good. And yes we were interested in Shazier who ran a sub 4.4 forty. We also didn't have Jaylon Smith who runs a 4.4 forty sitting on the roster at the time either.

I almost feel bad talking negative about Reddick because I like him. I really do. I think he is a way different player then Shazier who I wasn't that high on. But I don't think he is a fit for the Cowboys. It's a square peg in a round hole in the first. But he is a player who I'd like on my team. Just not over the an impact player at a position of real need.

:|

Your on ignore.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

:|

Your on ignore.

Yeah that was taking it too far. There really is nothing wrong with Temple. They are just a small school outside of the major conferences.

 

[Simpleton]

Penn State was the only real quality opponent. It would be interesting to go back and see how he played in that game. I watch a ton of Big Ten football but lets face it, Temple/Penn State wasn't on the top of my radar as a game to watch. And I feel bad talking bad about Reddick because I really think he would be a good player in Dallas. But I don't see him playing in the nickle over Sean Lee or Jaylon Smith. Which means we probably don't see his real impact until Lee retires or gets hurt. Or we create a special role for him.

And if Ryan Shazier was there at 28 in this draft, I probably wouldn't take him either.

Yes but you assume Smith is going to be 100% ready to go, which is pie in the sky to me. Considering Smith's injury and the time off I think the most realistic scenario would be him splitting reps with Reddick next to Lee in 2017, as far as 2 LB formations go. Then of course there should be extra snaps to be had because we should want to give Lee some sort of a rest and not force him to play 100% of snaps.

And this is all assuming perfect health for both Lee and Smith, which is also pretty unrealistic, but even if that does somehow come to fruition Lee is getting up there a bit as he turns 31 before the season.

Clearly LB is not a huge need but I think there is enough risk there to warrant taking a playmaking LB high in the draft if that is what the board dictates. Of course you say you'd pass up a Pro Bowl LB at 28, so that tells me all I need to know about how you view the position.

 

[ravidubey]

Bottom line is we have to take the best player available if he isn't a QB, RB, OG, K, P, or FB.

If a 1s round graded DL, LB, DB, OT, WR, or TE slips to 30, we need to take him.

BTW, passing on Ryan Shazier at 28 is borderline nuts.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Clearly LB is not a huge need but I think there is enough risk there to warrant taking a playmaking LB high in the draft if that is what the board dictates. Of course you say you'd pass up a Pro Bowl LB at 28, so that tells me all I need to know about how you view the position.

Shazier wasn't a probowler. He was a replacement. And unlike Lee who was a replacement this year, Shazier's season wasn't deserving of the probowl. Highly overrated player. And oh yeah injury prone as well. Dude hasn't played a full schedule yet.

If we are counting replacements I guess Jamies Winston is a probowl QB too

 

[Simpleton]

Shazier wasn't a probowler. He was a replacement. And unlike Lee who was a replacement this year, Shazier's season wasn't deserving of the probowl. Highly overrated player. And oh yeah injury prone as well. Dude hasn't played a full schedule yet.

If we are counting replacements I guess Jamies Winston is a probowl QB too

How many Steelers games have you watched?

Shazier was excellent this year and jumps off the screen with some of the plays he makes. 7 sacks, 4 interceptions, 5 FF's and 13 PD's combined over the last two seasons, doesn't get a whole lot better than that. If he stays healthy he's probably going to be one of the top LB's in the league over the next 5 years.

The injury thing is valid, although he's only missed 5 games over the last two years.

 

[Rev]

Bottom line is we have to take the best player available if he isn't a QB, RB, OG, K, P, or FB.

If a 1s round graded DL, LB, DB, OT, WR, or TE slips to 30, we need to take him.

BTW, passing on Ryan Shazier at 28 is borderline nuts.

If they slip to 30 then we have passed on them once.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

If they slip to 30 then we have passed on them once.

No kidding