Dak Watch Thread...

Simpleton

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Same here. I really wish the Pats had let him go a few years ago like Belichick wanted when he was younger and the Pats had a good QB in house so we'd have a better idea about that.

I'm still fascinated to see how this plays out this year even as Brady is declining and Belichick doesn't seem to have a QB.
Brady was a game manager/bus driver who came up clutch here and there for the first 4-5 years of his career while relying on an excellent defense and the run game, very similarly to Wilson. I don't think either turn into the QB they are if they had been drafted by the Browns or Cardinals or some such.

I think Dak is kind of on the same path where he won a bunch early on as a game manager/bus driver, while coming up clutch for sure in several key moments, but now he's starting to turn the corner and develop into a borderline elite type QB. We'll see if that continues.

We didn't have anywhere near the defense or of course the coaching staff that Brady/Wilson have so I'd argue that that's mostly why we maxed out in the divisional round.
 

Chocolate Lab

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I think Dak is kind of on the same path where he won a bunch early on as a game manager/bus driver, while coming up clutch for sure in several key moments, but now he's starting to turn the corner and develop into a borderline elite type QB. We'll see if that continues.
I don't get into the Dak arguments much because I'm so in the middle. I think he's good to pretty good: Definitely not as horrible as his haters claim but not as good as his big fans claim, either.

But from that Pats game on last year, he made some of the worst throws I've seen with some of the most awful footwork you'll ever see from a pro QB. And that was even without pressure. So that gives me pause on the "elite" talk. Nobody is perfect, but I can't think of many borerline elite QBs who made mistakes like that for several game stretches.

I still think he's good enough to at least get to a NFC Championship game with good coaching, though.
 

NoDak

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Same here. I really wish the Pats had let him go a few years ago like Belichick wanted when he was younger and the Pats had a good QB in house so we'd have a better idea about that.

I'm still fascinated to see how this plays out this year even as Brady is declining and Belichick doesn't seem to have a QB.
Agreed. I'm not trying to take anything away from either of them, but they certainly helped to make each other.

Players of course have to have the talent. But their surrounding team mates and coaches play a lot bigger part than we even think about. That argument is always used to try and take Emmitt Smith down a notch. But not for other players. I always thought that was funny.
 

Sheik

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Wilson made critical play after play for that team as a rookie and over the next couple of years. His defense gave him opportunities but there were special plays each of those years I don’t think either Romo or Dak makes in similar circumstance.


The finish to the Green Bay game with the muffed onside kick was outrageous. Wilson had like 4 picks, but you had this feeling all he needed was time. And he made every play they had to have down the stretch.

That was just some of the most clutch QB play our league has ever seen. I know the D kept him in that game, I know it. But wow, you can’t script that ending with almost anyone else, starting with the two point conversion they had to have or lose.
The last 10 minutes or whatever it was of that Green Bay game is the most dialed in I’ve ever seen a QB. Wilson was out of his mind in that comeback.

I’m not really a fan of his, but he was brilliant in that moment.
 

P_T

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Same here. I really wish the Pats had let him go a few years ago like Belichick wanted when he was younger and the Pats had a good QB in house so we'd have a better idea about that.

I'm still fascinated to see how this plays out this year even as Brady is declining and Belichick doesn't seem to have a QB.
Bucs vs Pats SB... anyone?
 

ravidubey

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I'm a firm believer that he wouldn't have been the greatest ever if he wouldn't have been with Belichick and that system. A good to possibly great QB? Maybe. But not in the discussion for GOAT.

Coaching matters. A lot.
Well, obviously. And that definitely goes both ways. Belichick would not be the coach he is now.

That dynasty was the product of both, and a division that stayed miraculously weak for two decades and counting
 

Simpleton

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I don't get into the Dak arguments much because I'm so in the middle. I think he's good to pretty good: Definitely not as horrible as his haters claim but not as good as his big fans claim, either.

But from that Pats game on last year, he made some of the worst throws I've seen with some of the most awful footwork you'll ever see from a pro QB. And that was even without pressure. So that gives me pause on the "elite" talk. Nobody is perfect, but I can't think of many borerline elite QBs who made mistakes like that for several game stretches.

I still think he's good enough to at least get to a NFC Championship game with good coaching, though.
Yea, he was bad, but so was most of the rest of the team and I think it mostly has to do with the dysfunction surrounding Garrett, which ratcheted up after the Vikings/Patriots games, and seemed to be a foregone conclusion after Thanksgiving. The Bears game in particular was pathetic and seemed like one of those "gave up on your HC/end of the road" type of games that ends a particular coaching regime.

I'm willing to give almost everybody a mulligan for how things went last year, especially later in the year.
 

p1_

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Yea, he was bad, but so was most of the rest of the team and I think it mostly has to do with the dysfunction surrounding Garrett, which ratcheted up after the Vikings/Patriots games, and seemed to be a foregone conclusion after Thanksgiving. The Bears game in particular was pathetic and seemed like one of those "gave up on your HC/end of the road" type of games that ends a particular coaching regime.

I'm willing to give almost everybody a mulligan for how things went last year, especially later in the year.
it had to be hell playing for the lame dick coach. Another (legitimately) high hope season gone by the wayside in stunningly pathetic fashion. Mulligan indeed.
 

ravidubey

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I'm willing to give almost everybody a mulligan for how things went last year, especially later in the year.
Way too simplistic, IMO

Easier to blame Garrett than Dak or other players because if we blame Garrett, there’s hope.

This team lost its composure vs the god damned Jets. Pats, Saints, Eagles they completely lost their way. For this sure, Garrett had to go.

But where was the leadership on the field? Accountability? Our players collectively showed their bellies and offered their throats.

This is why stats are so laughable. Dak cult was screaming about us having a top five QB during the Detroit game. Who cares about Detroit?

Well, how did that turn out with the season on the line facing a totally outgunned Philly team?

Easy to blame Garrett. But no top five players at any position fold like that, so I don’t give any Cowboys the benefit of the doubt, except the OL that still played its asses off.

Real character surfaces after the opponents punch you in the mouth. Is our on field character that beholden to the guy on the sidelines?

I was most disappointed in Zeke after the 2017 Denver game proved he’s kind of a fair weather bitch. The play down the stretch in 2019 didn’t inspire confidence in Dak either let me tell you.

Which Cowboy today with broken ribs on the road gets in the face of a reality show scrub and tells him to save the day because he’s getting the ball with the game on the line?

I’m hoping overwhelming talent makes up for the softness we’ve seen, because I’m not sure new coaches alone can change things.
 

Simpleton

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Way too simplistic, IMO

Easier to blame Garrett than Dak or other players because if we blame Garrett, there’s hope.

This team lost its composure vs the god damned Jets. Pats, Saints, Eagles they completely lost their way. For this sure, Garrett had to go.

But where was the leadership on the field? Accountability? Our players collectively showed their bellies and offered their throats.

This is why stats are so laughable. Dak cult was screaming about us having a top five QB during the Detroit game. Who cares about Detroit?

Well, how did that turn out with the season on the line facing a totally outgunned Philly team?

Easy to blame Garrett. But no top five players at any position fold like that, so I don’t give any Cowboys the benefit of the doubt, except the OL that still played its asses off.

Real character surfaces after the opponents punch you in the mouth. Is our on field character that beholden to the guy on the sidelines?

I was most disappointed in Zeke after the 2017 Denver game proved he’s kind of a fair weather bitch. The play down the stretch in 2019 didn’t inspire confidence in Dak either let me tell you.

Which Cowboy today with broken ribs on the road gets in the face of a reality show scrub and tells him to save the day because he’s getting the ball with the game on the line?

I’m hoping overwhelming talent makes up for the softness we’ve seen, because I’m not sure new coaches alone can change things.
Are you talking about Dak or the team in general?

If I were making decisions I wouldn't run around making rash judgments based on a lost season where the team was one of the most poorly coached I've seen from the Cowboys since probably 2008.

There are a handful of guys that I'd be watching closely as potential cut candidates if they don't rebound, Jaylon Smith in particular, perhaps Demarcus Lawrence although his contract guarantees that he'll be on the roster in 2021, hell even throw Amari Cooper in that same boat with Lawrence since his contract is structured to where he can easily be released after 2021, but I'm not going to make sweeping generalizations or force conclusions on guys because they played like shit in Philadelphia or Chicago late in the year when the team was seemingly mailing it in as soon as they got down.

Dak is surely not in that category for a multitude of reasons, namely that he was often one of the only ones keeping us in games when most of the rest of the team was listless, namely against the Jets, Vikings and Packers.

I don't need to sit here and micro-analyze reasons to be aggrieved when the coaching was so clearly the primary reason for most of our losses, especially when the answers will be laid bare in the next two years.

And I don't even know what you're talking about as far as the OL in Philly, we couldn't run the ball for shit and Dak was sacked twice and pressured consistently.
 

data

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This is why stats are so laughable. Dak cult was screaming about us having a top five QB during the Detroit game. Who cares about Detroit?

Well, how did that turn out with the season on the line facing a totally outgunned Philly team?
1:50 mark

 

ravidubey

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Are you talking about Dak or the team in general?

If I were making decisions I wouldn't run around making rash judgments based on a lost season where the team was one of the most poorly coached I've seen from the Cowboys since probably 2008.

There are a handful of guys that I'd be watching closely as potential cut candidates if they don't rebound, Jaylon Smith in particular, perhaps Demarcus Lawrence although his contract guarantees that he'll be on the roster in 2021, hell even throw Amari Cooper in that same boat with Lawrence since his contract is structured to where he can easily be released after 2021, but I'm not going to make sweeping generalizations or force conclusions on guys because they played like shit in Philadelphia or Chicago late in the year when the team was seemingly mailing it in as soon as they got down.

Dak is surely not in that category for a multitude of reasons, namely that he was often one of the only ones keeping us in games when most of the rest of the team was listless, namely against the Jets, Vikings and Packers.

I don't need to sit here and micro-analyze reasons to be aggrieved when the coaching was so clearly the primary reason for most of our losses, especially when the answers will be laid bare in the next two years.

And I don't even know what you're talking about as far as the OL in Philly, we couldn't run the ball for shit and Dak was sacked twice and pressured consistently.
Everyone of course, and most notably the so-called leaders. Dak, Lee, Witten, DLaw, Golden Cock, Jaylon, et al. I'm not even including Zeke in that group, though he should be a leader.

Coaching wasn't good, but when has it been good? The way the group gave up, not a good sign from our leaders on the field.

These players are excused: Gallup, Tyron, Zack, and Fred (who's gone). The rest I just don't see as mentally tough. Sorely disappointed.

In 2020 I'm anticipating a fun season with lots of action and firepower offensively, but my hopes for any kind of playoff action rest with Jarwin, the rookies, FA's, Gallup, Zack, and what's left of Tyron.
 

Simpleton

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The front office is at fault for not driving harder to close sooner but it does seem like Prescott and his agents are playing hardball to the nth degree.

I'd be curious to know how much the number went up but it's pretty laughable that you'd re-baseline negotiations based off 3 games against the shittiest teams in the league and then hold that after the team disappointed greatly over the rest of the year, with Prescott being very inconsistent later in the year.

Ultimately I stand by what I've said previously, push to get a deal done by July 15, but if they aren't willing to accept 4/140 I'd be exploring the trade market right now with the idea in mind that he'd be moved if there's no deal by the 15th.

The team has bent over backwards to surround him with talent. If they hadn't traded for Cooper who knows where he'd be right now, perhaps in a battle for his job with Jordan Love or some such.

You want to play hardball?

Go see how many endorsements you'll get and how much success you'll have playing in Carolina or Jacksonville.
 

p1_

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Is there any tampering type issues to prevent us from quietly investigating a trade?
 

Simpleton

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Is there any tampering type issues to prevent us from quietly investigating a trade?
I can't see how there could be tampering when he's our player. If we were having backdoor discussions with Jamal Adams on a contract extension that'd be tampering.
 
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jsmith6919

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Well shit
 

Cowboysrock55

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Well shit
Yeah the good old tactic of wait, just wait, just wait a little longer with Dak is working out absolutely terrible. Frankly Amari could have probably been redone for cheaper too if we didn't wait until the guy was actually hitting free agency.

And yet Zeke got his new deal with essentially 2 years left on a contract. Still baffles my mind.
 

Simpleton

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Yeah the good old tactic of wait, just wait, just wait a little longer with Dak is working out absolutely terrible. Frankly Amari could have probably been redone for cheaper too if we didn't wait until the guy was actually hitting free agency.

And yet Zeke got his new deal with essentially 2 years left on a contract. Still baffles my mind.
It's because there's no real strategy, they just don't do anything until their hands are forced by important players, at which point they extend them near or at the top of the market, and then pretend that's some sort of strategy.

It happened with Lawrence, Elliott and Cooper, and I'm at least 95% sure it'll happen with Dak. I absolutely expect Dak to be extended and it'll be at or above $35/year over 4 years.

Jerry doesn't have enough years left to start over with a new QB, particularly with such a talented roster. The only reason I said 95% and not 100% is because I think there's a very slight chance that McCarthy believes Dalton can fill-in well enough to at least be competitive in the playoffs.

The saving grace is despite extending guys like Cooper and Elliott at the top of the market they usually do a good job of structuring it in a way where they can get out easily at an ideal time. We can easily cut Cooper after 2 years, which just so happens to be when Gallup will be a FA, and we can get rid of Elliott easily right around the time he should start his decline at about age 27-28.
 
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