Dak Watch Thread...

Stasheroo

DCC 4Life
Joined
Jan 17, 2020
Messages
1,536
There's no axe to grind. You really think you are that important? Ok, then.
Clearly enough that you made the effort.

Just going off your own words. Everyone can see them, regardless of how you are trying to spin them now.
Yes they can, and I stand by them. I’m not the guy saying “I don’t care about stats”.

Like I said, if you want to try to take a shot, have better ammo.
 

Stasheroo

DCC 4Life
Joined
Jan 17, 2020
Messages
1,536
Dude I don’t know if you’re a troll or what, but the stuff you’re saying just isn’t making any sense. What the hell does me not caring what Dak’s stats say in regards to him being elite upsets you so much?
It doesn’t “upset me” at all. It simply tells me that any further comments from you on the subject are irrelevant.

This isn’t a commentary on Dak as a whole, or his career as it stands. Yes. Of course statistics come into play there.
Then why did you say “I don’t care about stats”? Did you misspeak?

I’m addressing whether or not he is elite. Despite the fact that he was second in yards and 4th in QBR, he is not in the tier of quarterbacks that those numbers may suggest. Frankly, I don’t know if I can be any more clear with you on this.
You’re abundantly “clear”. You think that the opinion of “some internet random” has more value than the facts.

And like I said, after that neither I nor anyone care what you have to say on the matter. You’re irrelevant.
 

DontCryWolfe

DCC 4Life
Joined
Oct 16, 2014
Messages
757
:lol

Once more, I said I don’t care about stats in regards to him being elite. Those stats are misleading in that respect. Seriously, your comprehension skills are mind numbingly awful.

And more value than facts? Stats aren’t facts, though it doesn’t surprise me that you get the two confused. They are data. They help tell the story, they aren’t the story themselves.

You certainly put yourself on quite the pedestal though, i’ll give you that.
 

p1_

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
26,462
shelter in place is indeed beginning to impact some of us.
 

ravidubey

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
20,165
I find that to be a load of crap. 'I watch the games' is the commonly-used trope of someone who doesn't like what the stats tell them. And it's worthless.
Stash, the simple truth is if stats told the story you wouldn’t need scouts or talent evaluation at all.

And we know that to be hogwash.

Talent evaluation is a critical skill, especially in today’s age when every possible stat is being munched by a million ML algorithms.

Turns out the computers still can’t figure out football, only organize data and trends.

It still takes people looking at human players and their skills, not checking a bunch of numbers that are so different from situation to situation as to be almost random.

Felix Jones averaged 9 YPA on 30 attempts. What does that tell you?

Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
 

Stasheroo

DCC 4Life
Joined
Jan 17, 2020
Messages
1,536
Stash, the simple truth is if stats told the story you wouldn’t need scouts or talent evaluation at all.

And we know that to be hogwash.

Talent evaluation is a critical skill, especially in today’s age when every possible stat is being munched by a million ML algorithms.

Turns out the computers still can’t figure out football, only organize data and trends.

It still takes people looking at human players and their skills, not checking a bunch of numbers that are so different from situation to situation as to be almost random.

Felix Jones averaged 9 YPA on 30 attempts. What does that tell you?

Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying they are the end all, be all, but they do provide significant amounts of information.

Far more than an individual’s opinion
 

p1_

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
26,462
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying they are the end all, be all, but they do provide significant amounts of information.

Far more than an individual’s opinion
you see, an informed opinion should be supported by statistical evidence and hard fact.
 

ravidubey

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
20,165
you see, an informed opinion should be supported by statistical evidence and hard fact.
Mark Rypien was great statistically, especially in 1991, but no one would compare him with Joe Theismann as a Washington all time great. Theismann was there when the team sucked and helped grow it into one of the 80’s dynasties. Rypien came in after it was all built. Statistically they look similar though.

Rypien rode that great team to a big contract, and football fans knew he didn’t quite deserve it. I’m sure his agent quoted a lot of stats, though.

Sure enough the moment adversity hit and supporting talent declined, Rypien folded hard. He was never more than a backup after Washington released him.
 

Stasheroo

DCC 4Life
Joined
Jan 17, 2020
Messages
1,536
Mark Rypien was great statistically, especially in 1991, but no one would compare him with Joe Theismann as a Washington all time great. Theismann was there when the team sucked and helped grow it into one of the 80’s dynasties. Rypien came in after it was all built. Statistically they look similar though.

Rypien rode that great team to a big contract, and football fans knew he didn’t quite deserve it. I’m sure his agent quoted a lot of stats, though.

Sure enough the moment adversity hit and supporting talent declined, Rypien folded hard. He was never more than a backup after Washington released him.
We can compare Dak’s four year career numbers to other quarterbacks if you’d like?

I’m guessing not.
 

ravidubey

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
20,165
We can compare Dak’s four year career numbers to other quarterbacks if you’d like?

I’m guessing not.
They are meaningless , empty numbers from a conservative QB padded with blowout wins over Detroit and Cleveland.

There’s some good QB underneath the Uber-hype, but we saw Dak’s truest colors when Tyron and Zeke were gone.

Stats are some of the silliest possible thing to be proud of as a football fan.

You know in your gut when someone is playing at a high level. The only time I’ve seen it from Dak was against Pittsburgh his rookie year. That was a remarkable game and a great performance. Dez and Zeke were great, but Dak reacted very well under pressure playing against a great QB. Now the 10 yards per attempt he had in that game— fricking unbelievable.

The shit padded stats from 2019, WGAF?
 

p1_

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
26,462
Mark Rypien was great statistically, especially in 1991, but no one would compare him with Joe Theismann as a Washington all time great. Theismann was there when the team sucked and helped grow it into one of the 80’s dynasties. Rypien came in after it was all built. Statistically they look similar though.

Rypien rode that great team to a big contract, and football fans knew he didn’t quite deserve it. I’m sure his agent quoted a lot of stats, though.

Sure enough the moment adversity hit and supporting talent declined, Rypien folded hard. He was never more than a backup after Washington released him.
and then there was Timmy Smith.
 

DontCryWolfe

DCC 4Life
Joined
Oct 16, 2014
Messages
757
Not to mention, there are plenty of statistics out there that don’t exactly paint Dak in the most glowing light. But, once again, I don’t need to rely on those to know what I have seen.

I mean, would you need to know Adrian Peterson’s rushing total from his 2k season, or do you think you could just watch the games and be able to figure out whether he is good or not? An over simplification, sure. But the nuance of what was actually being discussed and how stats fit in was pretty simple itself, I thought.
 

Cowboysrock55

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
52,466
Not to mention, there are plenty of statistics out there that don’t exactly paint Dak in the most glowing light. But, once again, I don’t need to rely on those to know what I have seen.

I mean, would you need to know Adrian Peterson’s rushing total from his 2k season, or do you think you could just watch the games and be able to figure out whether he is good or not? An over simplification, sure. But the nuance of what was actually being discussed and how stats fit in was pretty simple itself, I thought.
The difference is people are biased, stats aren't. Its why two people can watch the same thing and have totally different opinions. A fan who comes in thinking Dak's average is going to see a great performance and go, meh, it wasn't that good. But then watch the same performance from a QB they think is great and see greatness. Our preconception will impact our evaluation.

Stats are wonderful because they don't lie. A QB has one of the highest averages of yards in the air with his ball, he isn't a dink and dunk QB. Even though some fans with their bias will still think the guy is a dink and dunk QB. Unfortunately our eyes sometimes deceive us.
 

Stasheroo

DCC 4Life
Joined
Jan 17, 2020
Messages
1,536
They are meaningless , empty numbers from a conservative QB padded with blowout wins over Detroit and Cleveland.

There’s some good QB underneath the Uber-hype, but we saw Dak’s truest colors when Tyron and Zeke were gone.

Stats are some of the silliest possible thing to be proud of as a football fan.

You know in your gut when someone is playing at a high level. The only time I’ve seen it from Dak was against Pittsburgh his rookie year. That was a remarkable game and a great performance. Dez and Zeke were great, but Dak reacted very well under pressure playing against a great QB. Now the 10 yards per attempt he had in that game— fricking unbelievable.

The shit padded stats from 2019, WGAF?
I knew you wouldn't like them, because they shoot your opinions to shit.

Stats > Opinions

WGAF about one guy's baseless, unsupported opinions?

Not me.
 

Stasheroo

DCC 4Life
Joined
Jan 17, 2020
Messages
1,536
The difference is people are biased, stats aren't. Its why two people can watch the same thing and have totally different opinions. A fan who comes in thinking Dak's average is going to see a great performance and go, meh, it wasn't that good. But then watch the same performance from a QB they think is great and see greatness. Our preconception will impact our evaluation.

Stats are wonderful because they don't lie. A QB has one of the highest averages of yards in the air with his ball, he isn't a dink and dunk QB. Even though some fans with their bias will still think the guy is a dink and dunk QB. Unfortunately our eyes sometimes deceive us.
It's the 'shoot the messenger' on full display.

People have their unsupportable opinions and they try to attack the stats that refute those opinions. They don't like facts that destroy their case and undermine their unsupported opinions. I've seen the behavior a million times.

And what I do is simply consider the source and tune out anything they have to say on the matter because they've shown themselves to be a waste of time. They're out of touch with reality and want to believe whatever crazy stuff they have in their head. It's their problem, not mine and I'm not wasting time trying to pry open a closed mind or deal with clear, willful ignorance.
 

DontCryWolfe

DCC 4Life
Joined
Oct 16, 2014
Messages
757
The difference is people are biased, stats aren't. Its why two people can watch the same thing and have totally different opinions. A fan who comes in thinking Dak's average is going to see a great performance and go, meh, it wasn't that good. But then watch the same performance from a QB they think is great and see greatness. Our preconception will impact our evaluation.

Stats are wonderful because they don't lie. A QB has one of the highest averages of yards in the air with his ball, he isn't a dink and dunk QB. Even though some fans with their bias will still think the guy is a dink and dunk QB. Unfortunately our eyes sometimes deceive us.
Why do people have to be biased? It’s not at all possible that someone can have an impartial opinion? You guys are acting like i’m sitting in my basement twirling my mustache trying to find ways to say Dak sucks. I’ve went above and beyond trying to reiterate that though I don’t think he’s elite, he is a good QB.

Yet some people are acting like that sentiment is the hot take of the century. In which case, i’ll cut to the point then. Do you two think Dak is an elite quarterback? I’m saying top five in the NFL, that range.
 

ravidubey

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
20,165
Stats are wonderful because they don't lie. A QB has one of the highest averages of yards in the air with his ball, he isn't a dink and dunk QB. Even though some fans with their bias will still think the guy is a dink and dunk QB. Unfortunately our eyes sometimes deceive us.
I watched Mark Rypien float bombs after bombs deep down the field and his WR's ran under them. They got open a lot. His line protected him really well.

I see the same kind of thing from Dak, the WR is open and he throws. If it's a deep pass it's a safe one-- his guy can run under it, or it will fall incomplete. He's not throwing them open, and it's rare for him to improvise and why, tell me why he can't look off safeties? Dak doesn't create. With the talent he has around him, maybe he hasn't had to.

Safe is good. But it only gets you so far, unless you've got a Tampa 2002 or Ravens 2000 defense with great running games. Those are kind of rare.

I believe he's our best chance and he should be well-paid. But I'm not going to pretend the stats he's accumulated behind outstanding talent are a true representation of his ability.
 

L.T. Fan

I'm Easy If You Are
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
21,689
Stats as a general matter are fairly reliable but in the instant case of Prescott he had good stats in game performances but the one stat that begs the question is why didn’t these stats help with games won against winning teams He was on the winning side playing poor teams but even with the same production against winning teams he came up with a goose egg. This is the bottom line that creates an uneasiness in a lot of fans to the point that they cannot quite yet put him with the other tier 1 group of QBs. It’s pretty consistent especially with the 2019 schedule.
I think I know what the response will be.
 
Top Bottom