2024 Random Cowboys Stuff Thread

[Simpleton]

I don't want to hate on Quinn because I think he is a really good defensive coordinator. When things are going good it's amazing how good his defense can look. If you can get an offense to become one dimensional it's almost scary how good his pass rushes were and how the turnover would come in bunches. But I think the problem was when a team could stay balanced and run the ball the wheels would just sort of fall off. When the turnovers aren't coming, that defense was very vulnerable. And on top of that he is a guy who I think struggled to keep players grounded. You imagine Parcells and his constant belittling of players to try to keep them grounded Quinn is almost the opposite. He'd let you think you're the greatest pass rusher of all time, or that you're a "Hot Boy." But those defenses would get full of themselves thinking they are the greatest ever and then they would get in a real battle and fold. Like we saw against the Packers last year.

If you asked me 4-5 years ago whether I'd prefer Zimmer or Quinn as DC I'd have said Zimmer.

Quinn did a great job here and deserves plenty of credit, but Zimmer's defenses are just more fundamentally sound and have been honed over many years and different stops.

Quinn had a few great years in Seattle under really rare circumstances and I think the way that played out kind of warped his view of how defense is played, because those defenses were just unstoppable at home when things got rolling but that's a very rare way to play defense in the NFL. He also basically lucked into a generational player here in Parsons, while Zimmer has literally never had the benefit of someone like that aside from two years with Ware coaching a defense that wasn't even his own.

 

[Simpleton]

Quinn has had the benefit of multiple HOF-caliber players in just a handful of years at each stop - Richard Sherman, Earl Thomas, Bobby Wagner, Micah Parsons, potentially Diggs.

Zimmer has never had players of that caliber, he had plenty of Pro Bowlers like Atkins, Kendricks, Barr, Hunter, Dunlap and so forth, but Ware truly was the best player he ever had up until now and he only had him coaching a 3-4 for two years that was more Parcells' scheme than his own.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Quinn had a few great years in Seattle under really rare circumstances and I think the way that played out kind of warped his view of how defense is played, because those defenses were just unstoppable at home when things got rolling but that's a very rare way to play defense in the NFL. He also basically lucked into a generational player here in Parsons, while Zimmer has literally never had the benefit of someone like that aside from two years with Ware coaching a defense that wasn't even his own.

I know we must've talked about it plenty when he first got here, but I don't remember his Atlanta defenses being good. When I think of those teams, I think of Matt Ryan and their passing game.

 

[Rev]

I know we must've talked about it plenty when he first got here, but I don't remember his Atlanta defenses being good. When I think of those teams, I think of Matt Ryan and their passing game.

He had 1 year in Atlanta where his defense was decent if I remember correctly. Other years it was bottom half of the league.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I know we must've talked about it plenty when he first got here, but I don't remember his Atlanta defenses being good. When I think of those teams, I think of Matt Ryan and their passing game.

Honestly the only thing that really sticks out about that defense is that it collapsed in the Superbowl with a massive lead. He had a pretty stellar OC at the time too.

 

[Simpleton]

I know we must've talked about it plenty when he first got here, but I don't remember his Atlanta defenses being good. When I think of those teams, I think of Matt Ryan and their passing game.

They were fine on their playoff run to the Super Bowl in 2016, but overall his defenses as a HC were pretty shitty year to year, definitely far below what Zimmer was doing in Minnesota. That's the main reason I'd have taken Zimmer over him a few years ago, and I don't see why that logic would change now.

When we hired Quinn the idea was that as DC he'd get back to his roots without the added HC responsibilities and do well, and he definitely did, but Zimmer has been one of the elite defensive minds in the league for the last 10-15 years and did it at multiple stops.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Quinn has had the benefit of multiple HOF-caliber players in just a handful of years at each stop - Richard Sherman, Earl Thomas, Bobby Wagner, Micah Parsons, potentially Diggs.

Zimmer has never had players of that caliber, he had plenty of Pro Bowlers like Atkins, Kendricks, Barr, Hunter, Dunlap and so forth, but Ware truly was the best player he ever had up until now and he only had him coaching a 3-4 for two years that was more Parcells' scheme than his own.

I agree, I think Zimmer inherited a pretty good situation here. I remember the Bengals defenses he was piecing together and it consisted of basically throwing a bunch of misfits together and asking Zimmer to spin it into gold. His Dallas days feel so long ago. Just like a QB, coordinators evolve over time and Zimmer is hardly the same coordinator that he was that long ago. I think that experience has probably contributed to what he is today but he was just a really hard working dude back then still learning about the things he could do. I've always liked Zimmer as a defensive guy. I hope that this continues the rest of the year. I'm sure there will be hiccups along the way.

 

[Simpleton]

I agree, I think Zimmer inherited a pretty good situation here. I remember the Bengals defenses he was piecing together and it consisted of basically throwing a bunch of misfits together and asking Zimmer to spin it into gold. His Dallas days feel so long ago. Just like a QB, coordinators evolve over time and Zimmer is hardly the same coordinator that he was that long ago. I think that experience has probably contributed to what he is today but he was just a really hard working dude back then still learning about the things he could do. I've always liked Zimmer as a defensive guy. I hope that this continues the rest of the year. I'm sure there will be hiccups along the way.

There will be struggles but after the way the defense sort of collapsed both in 2022 and 2023 under Quinn I definitely trust Zimmer more in the playoffs in a tight game. Maybe the defense will collapse the same way this year, we'll see, but as of now I have more faith in Zimmer and his philosophy.

 

[Genghis Khan]

Quinn did a great job here. It's easy to forget how bad the defense was when he took over, and yeah he added Parsons so he had some better personnel but I'd also give him some credit for improving the personnel because I do think the coaches have some level of impact on who we acquire.

I also think based on the GB playoff game it was time to move on. His defense had run its course and honestly I wonder if his head was in Washington already leading up to that game.

I like Zimmer and he seems to be doing a great job so far. But I think it should be pointed out that Zimmer inarguably was handed better personnel than Quinn was.

 

[Simpleton]

Quinn did a great job here. It's easy to forget how bad the defense was when he took over, and yeah he added Parsons so he had some better personnel but I'd also give him some credit for improving the personnel because I do think the coaches have some level of impact on who we acquire.

I also think based on the GB playoff game it was time to move on. His defense had run its course and honestly I wonder if his head was in Washington already leading up to that game.

I like Zimmer and he seems to be doing a great job so far. But I think it should be pointed out that Zimmer inarguably was handed better personnel than Quinn was.

All true and I do think Quinn's head was elsewhere not only during the playoff game but the last week or two of the regular season.

There were rumors floating around that were very likely plants that Quinn felt it was the right time to jump, which to me meant that he knew this was probably his last really good cycle to land a HC job because his defense was kind of plateauing.

 

[boozeman]

 

[Simpleton]

I still think if we don't make the NFCC this year he's likely our HC next year.

We can argue the wisdom of that, especially if we win another 11-12 games and lose a tight divisional round game, but I think it's the reality.

 

[bbgun]

I still think if we don't make the NFCC this year he's likely our HC next year.

the Giants might have something to say about that

 

[Simpleton]

the Giants might have something to say about that

There's a 0% chance he goes to that wasteland for the last few years of his career unless they offer like 3X the money. He'll be 73 next year, I bet they won't be able to get that roster in shape to actually be a SB contender until he's damn near 76 or 77.

 

[bbgun]

There's a 0% chance he goes to that wasteland for the last few years of his career unless they offer like 3X the money. He'll be 73 next year, I bet they won't be able to get that roster in shape to actually be a SB contender until he's damn near 76 or 77.

but he has history there, no Jerry, and might have a top 5 pick to play with

 

[Simpleton]

but he has history there, no Jerry, and might have a top 5 pick to play with

They would need literally 3-4 top 5 picks just to get their roster to where we're already at right now, and that's if they hit on all of them. There was lots of chatter last year that Belichick has a bunch of respect for Jerry/Stephen and would want to work with them, and it seems that's slowly being confirmed, at least in terms of the respect factor for their ability to roster build.

 

[boozeman]

 

[boozeman]

If

I still think if we don't make the NFCC this year he's likely our HC next year.

We can argue the wisdom of that, especially if we win another 11-12 games and lose a tight divisional round game, but I think it's the reality.

If he insists on bringing his retarded assistants like McDaniels and Patricia, fuck all that. I would keep Fat Mike and Zimmer, thanks.

 

[Genghis Khan]

I think it's unlikely that they break through this year and finally get to the championship game (and/or beyond).

But IF they do, this will be the reason.

It won't be because Dak stepped up or the running game stepped up or the young OL turns dominant.

If they get there it'll be because the defense elevated to another level.

 

[Simpleton]

If

If he insists on bringing his retarded assistants like McDaniels and Patricia, fuck all that. I would keep Fat Mike and Zimmer, thanks.

If we win another 11-12 games and have a 2022-like postseason I could definitely see the argument.

If they have another completely pathetic showing like the Packers last year at any point before the NFCC though...