To Tank Or Not To Tank

[Texas Ace]

That "carry over" nonsense is for young teams learning how to win. That ain't us.

Not true.

It's not just for young teams learning how to win, it's also for teams under a new staff and having faith in what they're being taught.

Just like we were all disappointed in the coaching and wondering what the hell they were doing back in October, I'm sure there was a lot of that going on in the locker room as well.

Things were starting to trend downward and it did not look good. But the last few weeks have shown a significant improvement and the effort from the players has been obvious too. Now, if they keep finding wins over the last few weeks then this team is going to finish on a positive note and they'll have a lot of faith in the staff going into next season.

More importantly, they won't have doubts about this staff going into next season and I think we can all agree that it wouldn't bode well for 2021 for the players to have some sort of doubt or negative perception about the direction they're being led in before the season even begins.

Again, I don't believe this to be generally true, but for this team and this wacky ass 2020 season, I think we stand more to gain by finishing strong than to finish with 3 or 4 wins.

 

[Texas Ace]

Yeah, I can see that. Get some confidence in themselves and their teammates built up going into next year. This team is mostly going to stay intact next year minus probable the secondary, so the vast majority of these guys will be together again next year.

Exactly.

You don't want guys like Demarcus Lawrence or Amari Cooper thinking these guys don't have a clue, and I'm guessing that doubt was creeping in back in the middle of the losing streak.

I mean, you had guys openly questioning the coaching on the defensive side of the ball back in October and I'm guessing guys were having their own doubts on the offensive side of the ball too.

Like I said, if they somehow finish with 7 wins, they'll feel really good about their chances for 2021 and they'll most likely attribute the slow start for 2020 to an abnormal offseason and a shit load of injuries, and that would be a lot better for their future prospects than thinking the season sucked because the coaches were clueless.

 

[bbgun]

Not true.

It's not just for young teams learning how to win, it's also for teams under a new staff and having faith in what they're being taught.

Just like we were all disappointed in the coaching and wondering what the hell they were doing back in October, I'm sure there was a lot of that going on in the locker room as well.

Things were starting to trend downward and it did not look good. But the last few weeks have shown a significant improvement and the effort from the players has been obvious too. Now, if they keep finding wins over the last few weeks then this team is going to finish on a positive note and they'll have a lot of faith in the staff going into next season.

More importantly, they won't have doubts about this staff going into next season and I think we can all agree that it wouldn't bode well for 2021 for the players to have some sort of doubt or negative perception about the direction they're being led in before the season even begins.

Again, I don't believe this to be generally true, but for this team and this wacky ass 2020 season, I think we stand more to gain by finishing strong than to finish with 3 or 4 wins.

The staff is full of seasoned professionals; they're not like Jimmy was in 1989. McCarthy needs studs like Sewell more than he needs a few moral victories down the stretch.

 

[Genghis Khan]

That "carry over" nonsense is for young teams learning how to win. That ain't us.

I think there's a lot to be said for overcoming adversity, whether in game or in season.

I think there's a lot to be said for establishing the culture of the coaching regime.

I think there's a lot to be said for establishing what the coaching staff is willing to accept.

I think there's a lot to be said for laying a foundation that can pay off some down the road.

Seattle won a division at 7-9 once. A lot of people laughed at that. In 2 years they were a winning team and the following couple years they were a back to back super bowl team and won one.

I think Ace is right that with the wrong staff it doesn't matter as much, but under a good coaching staff - which starts at the HC - it can mean a lot for the foundation of the team in the next several years.

I don't know if anyone thought this was a super bowl team coming off of last year. But getting into the playoffs - especially without your QB and major OL pieces - represents a clear step forward. I will absolutely take that.

 

[Genghis Khan]

you had guys openly questioning the coaching on the defensive side of the ball back in October and I'm guessing guys were having their own doubts on the offensive side of the ball too.

This is a very key point for why finishing strong matters.

 

[Texas Ace]

I think there's a lot to be said for overcoming adversity, whether in game or in season.

I think there's a lot to be said for establishing the culture of the coaching regime.

I think there's a lot to be said for establishing what the coaching staff is willing to accept.

I think there's a lot to be said for laying a foundation that can pay off some an the road.

Absolutely.

And this is especially true in a season where the coaches are still getting to learn about their players and vice versa given that there was an abnormal offseason.

So this is where the staff learns both from a production and mentality standpoint which players are going to be fits for their culture and scheme going forward, and where the players worth keeping understand what it is the coaches expect of them.

This is still very much a valuable stretch run for this football team.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Absolutely. (Edit, I swear I posted that before I saw TA's last post. )

Remember just a month or so ago when we had the unnamed players talking about the coaches not knowing what they were doing at the same time the players looked like they'd never played football before? It doesn't get more toxic than that. If that carries into an offseason it 1) puts legitimate doubt in the players' minds that this guy knows what he's doing and 2) puts all the media heat on McCarthy and takes it off the players.

I'm not worried that MM will get overconfident and not try to improve the team. McCarthy is an experienced guy and isn't used to taking the kind of embarrassing asswhipping he took earlier in the year. He also has a "Win the Superbowl" standard, not a "How can I connive to keep my job" standard like the last guy. He won't be fooled into thinking the team doesn't need upgrades, especially on defense.

 

[bbgun]

I think there's a lot to be said for laying a foundation that can pay off some down the road.

Winning a terrible division by default is not laying the foundation for anything. And with roster turnover being what it is, a lot of guys who are supposedly benefiting from this surge won't be here next year. Winning the East won't make Woods or Brown or Lewis any better. We already know what they are: middling talents who are only playing because the alternatives are worse.

 

[Texas Ace]

Winning a terrible division by default is not laying the foundation for anything. And with roster turnover being what it is, a lot of guys won't be here next year. Winning the East won't make Woods or Brown or Lewis any better. We already know what they are: middling talents who are only playing because the alternatives are worse.

Again, it's about more than that but we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Landry]

At least they learned to jettison the shit players like Poe, Worley and Dix.

 

[Texas Ace]

At least they learned to jettison the shit players like Poe, Worley and Dix.

Right.

Under Garrett, not only do they remain on the roster but they would have kept getting snaps too.

 

[Cotton]

Right.

Under Garrett, not only do they remain on the roster but they would have kept getting snaps too.

Two words...

Chaz. Green.

 

[Genghis Khan]

Winning a terrible division by default is not laying the foundation for anything. And with roster turnover being what it is, a lot of guys who are supposedly benefiting from this surge won't be here next year. Winning the East won't make Woods or Brown or Lewis any better. We already know what they are: middling talents who are only playing because the alternatives are worse.

Nobody is saying don't improve the team in the off-season. This isn't a complete roster right now. But there will be plenty of guys back next year, and those will be the guys setting the tone for new players that come in.

In the meantime the atmosphere was getting very toxic. It's much harder to play for coaches you don't believe in.

There's something to be said for making progress and getting as far as you can get. Otherwise you're making the argument that every team other than the top couple should be tanking.

There are certainly arguments in favor of tanking. But it really to me only makes sense if your team is legitimately really bad and/or you are stuck in a position as an organization that you don't see any other way to get over the hump (like if your QB or HC sucks). We're not that team.

 

[bbgun]

There are certainly arguments in favor of tanking. But it really to me only makes sense if your team is legitimately really bad and/or you are stuck in a position as an organization that you don't see any other way to get over the hump (like if your QB or HC sucks). We're not that team.

If Dak and the tackles were healthy and they had a real shot at a championship, I'd root for them to win a shit division, but that's not the case. I think you guys are trying to talk yourselves into draft suicide.

 

[Texas Ace]

If Dak and the tackles were healthy and they had a real shot at a championship, I'd root for them to win a shit division, but that's not the case. I think you guys are trying to talk yourselves into draft suicide.

We aren't trying to talk ourselves into anything.

We have a very clear understanding of why we want this team to finish on a positive note and we've expressed those things in detail.

If you don't agree with that stance, that's fine. But no one here is misunderstanding the situation or confused by anything.

 

[Genghis Khan]

If Dak and the tackles were healthy and they had a real shot at a championship, I'd root for them to win a shit division, but that's not the case. I think you guys are trying to talk yourselves into draft suicide.

Nah, we'll be fine in the draft.

 

[bbgun]

We aren't trying to talk ourselves into anything.

No one was rooting for an NFCE title or a lower draft pick before yesterday's victory. Now that it's happened, we get flowery sentiments like "building for the future" and "learning how to win." Barf.

 

[Texas Ace]

No one was rooting for an NFCE title or a lower draft pick before yesterday's victory. Now that it's happened, we get flowery sentiments like "building for the future" and "learning how to win." Barf.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I was all for seeing them continue to win for the aforementioned reasons.

I wasn't waving my pom-poms or thinking playoff wins, but I have continued to see the benefit of winning and continuing to play hard in this disappointing 2020 season.

 

[Genghis Khan]

No one was rooting for an NFCE title or a lower draft pick before yesterday's victory. Now that it's happened, we get flowery sentiments like "building for the future" and "learning how to win." Barf.

I was.

 

[L.T. Fan]

The idea of even considering an athletic competing team not giving 100% to be victorious in their competition is abhorrant to me and defeats the entire reason for even being in competition. They are no longer being a team. The have become performing actors to just play a script that is directed by someone else. How then is that a sport?