2020 Draft Weekend Chatter Thread...

[Smitty]

Nah, we've been doing it long before Garrett. I think we peaked under Campo.

Definitely a Jones thing.

 

[Smitty]

Yep, no fucking Ryan Switzers, Isaiah Stanbacks or Akwasi Owusu-Ansah's this year.

Reggie Robinson is a bit in that mold. Small school, mega athletic, has the size/speed profile they love but not the production at a big school and is probably a bit of a development gambit. They love to use 4th rounders on those types.

 

[Smitty]

The draft is all about layering a foundation for the next four years or so, and most of this site gets that. Hence the overall elation. Dallas got clear value at positions of need in each round.

If you only look at patching the current team you end up with crap like the 1995 backups draft, 2009’s special teams draft, the X-Ray draft, the Aikman trying out WRs draft, or most of the shitty drafts we had with Jerry as undisputed GM.

What makes this even more exciting is the clear leadership and input McCarthy has brought along with the philosophy of “players over scheme”. We haven’t had that in Dallas since Jimmy Johnson used extra picks to draft the same talented players he tried to recruit years earlier in college.

Jimmy left his offensive and defensive schemes behind and Jerry Jones bent over backwards trying to maintain them. He forced Chan Gailey to keep the defensive schemes in place and brought back the same offensive schemes once he fired Gailey.

Scheme over talent was the cause of the rush job Bill Parcells made trying to build a 3-4 and win a title before he retired. He converted Greg Ellis to a LB, dumped La’Roi Glover, force-drafted Marcus Spears and Bobby Carpenter, and alienated a solid DC in Mike Zimmer to implement his 3-4.

And of course Jerry bent over backwards to keep the damned scheme (without truly understanding it) once Parcells left hiring both Wade and Rob Ryan. They eroded the team letting building blocks like Chris Canty go while keeping the average Spears and signing more average guys like Igor Olshansky. They refused to change to a 4-3 even though it was clear both Hatcher and Ratliff were better suited to it.

Bottom line it’s been ages since we had coaches prioritize talent over scheme and I can’t wait

Ironically what you just cited with Jerry "forcing" Gailey to run our old schemes is exactly an example of Players over Scheme.

We had the players to run that small, quick 4-3, despite Gailey spending all that time in Pittsburgh and probably knowing some decent 3-4 coaches. Jerry said, "No, we have 4-3 players, you will keep Campo and run the 4-3."

That's players over scheme to a "T." Gailey/Campo/Zimmer should have just made it work with the players they had! Right? And Gailey tried.

And it was kind of a disaster.

I don't think the Parcells conversion to a 3-4 was that awful either. It's what he knew, it's what he was best at personally. Why force him to coach something he doesn't think he's the best at? Letting Parcells go to the 3-4 probably should have happened when he got here. Keeping "players over scheme" maybe makes sense if it's gonna be a short term thing (which, I suppose, Parcells was), but if it's a half-decade or more expectation or goal, then you have to implement the schemes you prefer as a coach, and then go get players who fit that.

It's a balance, though, because obviously Marinelli took it way too far. He basically was saying "Run stuffers don't work for me," which is just stupid. His scheme needed to be tweaked to accomodate players with that talent, or he needed to be fired. The latter ended up happening first.

"Players over Scheme" as a philosophy is not always a cure-all and it's not necessarily what made this draft great either.

Sometimes the scheme should be changed and the players should be swapped out to accomodate.

 

[ravidubey]

Schmitty, I’m not so sure.

Just because Jerry couldn’t see past Waanstedt’s scheme doesn’t mean we couldn’t have made another work.

It only takes one or two players or maybe accepting a defense that isn’t as good as you’re used to in favor of a far better team. Not sure Gailey would have gone full 3-4, but he should have been allowed to choose and the team should have gone BPA.

Instead Jerry literally drafted Greg Ellis over the best WR I’ve ever seen and maybe will ever see because the team had a bigger hole at DE.

He forced scheme/body type again the following year with Ekubust, taking a converted soccer player over a better football player in Patrick Kearney, just because he didn’t fit the mold. That’s bs, and the philosophy keeps being proven wrong.

I think coaches and managers fall in love with their schemes as they allow teams to keep shit the same and evolve new wrinkles. But the best new wrinkles are simply better players.

 

[NoDak]

Instead Jerry literally drafted Greg Ellis over the best WR I’ve ever seen and maybe will ever see because the team had a bigger hole at DE.

I don't agree with that. Moss wasn't drafted because Jerry was afraid of the backlash of taking a troubled player so soon after the fiasco we had been through with Irvin and others. Not because we had a bigger hole at DE. Ellis was a good player, but more importantly to Jerry at the time, he was a SAFE player.

 

[L.T. Fan]

I don't agree with that. Moss wasn't drafted because Jerry was afraid of the backlash of taking a troubled player so soon after the fiasco we had been through with Irvin and others. Not because we had a bigger hole at DE. Ellis was a good player, but more importantly to Jerry at the time, he was a SAFE player.

That is the primary reason that Jones didn’t take Moss. A lot of the locals were pretty adamant that Jones should draft anyone but Moss. The team was getting into one scandal after another with some of the players and balked at Moss because they felt he was a trouble maker. I was even somewhat reluctant about Moss but Dallas missed the greatest opportunity to have one of the top players to ever play the game and he would probably have had the fans saying Michael who ? at some point.

 

[data]

Lamb would be wearing #84

 

[Rev]

 

[Smitty]

Instead Jerry literally drafted Greg Ellis over the best WR I’ve ever seen and maybe will ever see because the team had a bigger hole at DE.

You are confusing the issue though. Greg Ellis was not an issue of a better scheme fit so we took a lesser player. Randy Moss was an equal scheme fit to Greg Ellis.

You are citing an example of need over BPA. And I agree the exceptions to that should be exceedingly rare.

 

[Smitty]

I don't agree with that. Moss wasn't drafted because Jerry was afraid of the backlash of taking a troubled player so soon after the fiasco we had been through with Irvin and others. Not because we had a bigger hole at DE. Ellis was a good player, but more importantly to Jerry at the time, he was a SAFE player.

This too.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

You are confusing the issue though. Greg Ellis was not an issue of a better scheme fit so we took a lesser player. Randy Moss was an equal scheme fit to Greg Ellis.

You are citing an example of need over BPA. And I agree the exceptions to that should be exceedingly rare.

That wasn't a need over BPA though. We took character over talent that year. And honestly taking the talent with poor character has bit us in the ass sometimes. And sometimes it has worked out great like it did for Dez Bryant. That was a perfect example of when we should have taken the talent and realized the character can be worked on. Moss would have been a game changer for this organization. Ellis was a nice player and not a bad draft pick at all. If Moss never existed it probably wouldn't even be questioned as a draft pick. I wanted Moss so bad in that draft though and was horribly disappointed in the pick.

 

[Stasheroo]

That wasn't a need over BPA though. We took character over talent that year. And honestly taking the talent with poor character has bit us in the ass sometimes. And sometimes it has worked out great like it did for Dez Bryant. That was a perfect example of when we should have taken the talent and realized the character can be worked on. Moss would have been a game changer for this organization. Ellis was a nice player and not a bad draft pick at all. If Moss never existed it probably wouldn't even be questioned as a draft pick. I wanted Moss so bad in that draft though and was horribly disappointed in the pick.

I agree, and it was a decision that snowballed on the team too.

If they drafted Moss, they never make that terrible Joey Galloway deal either.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I agree, and it was a decision that snowballed on the team too.

If they drafted Moss, they never make that terrible Joey Galloway deal either.

And the Galloway deal led to some truly awful drafts after it. It's a good reason to follow BPA. Because you really don't know what will happen with your roster a year or two down the road. Positions you think are locked up aren't, positions you think are a need will work themselves out. You don't want to be stuck with a need for an elite player at a position because you didn't think it was a need a year ago.

 

[Stasheroo]

And the Galloway deal led to some truly awful drafts after it. It's a good reason to follow BPA. Because you really don't know what will happen with your roster a year or two down the road. Positions you think are locked up aren't, positions you think are a need will work themselves out. You don't want to be stuck with a need for an elite player at a position because you didn't think it was a need a year ago.

And why I am so glad that the team never made that stupid deal for Jamal Adams. You can't make a practice of giving up top picks for player you then have to pay big money. That's a double whammy.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

It was pretty good but I don't know that I enjoyed him being a fan for every NFL team.

 

[Stasheroo]

It was pretty good but I don't know that I enjoyed him being a fan for every NFL team.

Been done to death, I can't even watch that guy any more.

 

[data]

It was pretty good but I don't know that I enjoyed him being a fan for every NFL team.

Yeah, he's gone Jerruh. Like Jerruh with opposing fans filling up our stadiums, McGruder's going for mass appeal and a click's a click.

From a Cowboys fan's perspective, I thought he was going to go through some of the picks leading up to CeeDee Lamb. Like he'd be saying:

• #2 Wash picks Chase Young. "Pfff, I ain't scared of Brian Orakpo #2.....is Tyron's back okay? He's okay, right?"
• #10 and #11. "Browns and Jets both got tackles? We're definitely going CB now."
• #12 Raiders pick Ruggs. "WR run right here. Keeps those defenders dropping to us. WE WANT KINLAW"
• #14 49ers pick Kinlaw. "We weren't gonna get Kinlaw anyway. Oh, well. Who's the top CB left?"
• #15 Denver picks Jeudy. "That's the steal of the draft. I wish we could have WRs drop in our lap like that."
• #16 ATL on the clock..."we're gonna draft another Cornerback, aren't we? Haven't we learned yet? Maybe AJ Terrell can get more interceptions than a LBer in his rookie year. That'd be something, wouldn't it? Who are we kidding...Jerry's on a yacht. He's gonna draft Captain Morgan."
• #16 ATL drafts AJ Terrell. ~drops coffee cup~
• #17 Cowboys on the clock. "OMG. OMG. OMG. For the love of Steven Jackson..."
• #18 Cowboys draft CeeDee Lamb. "RANDY MOSS. YOU'VE BEEN EXORCISED!!!! KING KONG AIN"T GOT NUTHIN ON ME. JERRY JONES IS ON A M'FING BOAT, YA'LL. STAY THERE EVERY YEAR!"

 

[Cotton]

The Packers fan reaction at the end...

The Eagles and Cowboys fan reactions to the Jalen Hurts pick...

 

[Cotton]

It was pretty good but I don't know that I enjoyed him being a fan for every NFL team.

I mean, he said several things that were said almost verbatim in this thread. Couple of them that stick out.

"Thank you, Al Davis"

"Why is Gettleman sitting in a room by himself with a mask on?"

Methinks he reads our chatter threads for material.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

The Packers fan reaction at the end...

The Eagles and Cowboys fan reactions to the Jalen Hurts pick...

Yesh the Eagles fans and Cowboys fans stuff was great. But I don't care about the Bills or Packers for example? Not really, they don't relate to us much other than I love to see Rodgers squirm. Something I really hate about that guy beyond my dislike for the Pack.