Dak Watch Thread...

[Cowboysrock55]

Brees/Brady are pretty much irrelevant to the conversation since they'll both be done in literally a year, maybe two if they're touched by an angel. Rodgers has a few years left in him but Mahomes/Wilson are the only true youngish franchise type QB's right now.

Watson is the guy I'd think hardest about in comparison to Dak but I feel like I could argue that one either way. Then you have a pretty large group of guys at various stages of their career (Jackson, Wentz, Goff, Stafford, Ryan, maybe even Cousins) who I feel like you could argue one way or the other compared to Dak but ultimately I'd take Dak over all of them right now.

Yeah I'm not as high on Watson as the media. I think he holds the ball to long and takes too many negative plays. He is a guy who looks really good one week and terrible the next. I think I like Dak a little more.

 

[DontCryWolfe]

Yeah I'm not as high on Watson as the media. I think he holds the ball to long and takes too many negative plays. He is a guy who looks really good one week and terrible the next. I think I like Dak a little more.

Seriously? Watson has half the talent to play with around him, and is actually pretty damn clutch. There is no way in hell Dak is a better QB than Watson.

 

[Texas Ace]

Yeah I'm not as high on Watson as the media. I think he holds the ball to long and takes too many negative plays. He is a guy who looks really good one week and terrible the next. I think I like Dak a little more.

Dak is and has also been guilty of holding onto the ball too long.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Seriously? Watson has half the talent to play with around him, and is actually pretty damn clutch. There is no way in hell Dak is a better QB than Watson.

Last year Dak had a QBR of 70.2. Deshaun had a QBR of 68.7. What I like about QBR is it takes into account negative plays by a QB. So the sacks, fumbles, rushing yards are all part of that calculation. And frankly Dak just gives his team a better chance of winning.

 

[p1_]

Last year Dak had a QBR of 70.2. Deshaun had a QBR of 68.7. What I like about QBR is it takes into account negative plays by a QB. So the sacks, fumbles, rushing yards are all part of that calculation. And frankly Dak just gives his team a better chance of winning.

You’re talking about 1.5 points difference

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Dak is and has also been guilty of holding onto the ball too long.

In 2018 I agree. But Dak got his shit together last year. He took only 23 sacks on the season. It was a drastic improvement. Oddly enough the a former Skins coach was on the radio this morning gushing over how much Dak improved in this aspect over the offseason.

Watson on the other hand took 44 sacks last year. Which was an improvement over the 62 he took the previous season.

As far as supporting casts go Watson's isn't that bad. He has a better #1 WR. Probably had a better TE last year (Not saying much). And when healthy Kenny Stills and Fuller rival every bit of our #2 and #3 receivers.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

You’re talking about 1.5 points difference

Sure, and I don't think a ton separates them. Watson had less TD passes, less YPA, slightly higher completion percentage.

Throwing the ball they are actually very similar. Watson is the better runner but he also takes more negative plays doing so. In the end you're not talking a ton of difference between the guys. It's why one had a 99 QB rating (Dak) and the other had a 98 QB (Watson) rating.

 

[Simpleton]

I'm not going to argue one way or the other as far as Watson/Dak, I think Watson has more arm talent and is a better pure passer but that doesn't mean I'd definitely take him over Dak either.

What I will say is that this idea that he has no talent around him is overblown. Since he's come into the league he's had arguably the best WR in the league in Hopkins, as well as an excellent number 2 in Fuller, even if he usually misses a handful of games each year.

When healthy there's a case to be made that Hopkins/Fuller are the best duo in the league. They also had an elite defense in 2018 with Watt/Clowney, which basically carried them to the playoffs, and they added a Pro Bowl LT going into 2019.

Dak's offensive supporting cast is definitely stronger but there are plenty of mitigating factors over his 4 years (Elliott suspension, Frederick missing 2018, no true number 1 until halfway through 2018, etc.).

 

[data]

Doesn’t matter. You’ll get Dak for $110M and like it.

Just hope he has an Aikman-like surge from Shula —> Norval Turner now that Garrett is gone. Hey, it worked for Goff going from Fisher —> McVay

 

[DontCryWolfe]

Last year Dak had a QBR of 70.2. Deshaun had a QBR of 68.7. What I like about QBR is it takes into account negative plays by a QB. So the sacks, fumbles, rushing yards are all part of that calculation. And frankly Dak just gives his team a better chance of winning.

Sorry, my dumbass didn’t mean to props you.

And how do you reckon he gives his team a better chance at winning? I’m sure Watson does have more negative plays, look at who is around him. One WR, and one OL that is above average. Dak was sacked 8 times last season. I’m not going to attribute that all to our line, but it’s certainly telling. Watson too has been held back by a moron for a coach.

This is one of those deals where i’m sure from a numbers only standpoint you could cherry pick and build a case for Dak. But i’m going to roll out the proverbial “eye test” on this one. I just see a better QB in Watson.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Doesn’t matter. You’ll get Dak for $110M and like it.

Just hope he has an Aikman-like surge from Shula —> Norval Turner now that Garrett is gone. Hey, it worked for Goff going from Fisher —> McVay

I'll take Dak from last year. Just give me a defensive surge to go with it.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Sorry, my dumbass didn’t mean to props you.

And how do you reckon he gives his team a better chance at winning? I’m sure Watson does have more negative plays, look at who is around him. One WR, and one OL that is above average. Dak was sacked 8 times last season. I’m not going to attribute that all to our line, but it’s certainly telling. Watson too has been held back by a moron for a coach.

This is one of those deals where i’m sure from a numbers only standpoint you could cherry pick and build a case for Dak. But i’m going to roll out the proverbial “eye test” on this one. I just see a better QB in Watson.

Fair enough, no reason to beat this one over the head. We have different opinions. I think they are close enough that someone could validly argue either way. So I'm certainly not going to sit here and say someone who likes Watson more is dead wrong. We just see them slightly different.

 

[DontCryWolfe]

I'm not going to argue one way or the other as far as Watson/Dak, I think Watson has more arm talent and is a better pure passer but that doesn't mean I'd definitely take him over Dak either.

What I will say is that this idea that he has no talent around him is overblown. Since he's come into the league he's had arguably the best WR in the league in Hopkins, as well as an excellent number 2 in Fuller, even if he usually misses a handful of games each year.

Fuller hasn’t caught more than 670 yards in a season since he has been in Houston. Not saying he isn’t talented, but saying he is an excellent number two is kind of stretching it. Especially considering the guy also has an issue with drops. Also, much of his meager stat line year by year is inflated by a couple huge performances, and then a lot of nothing.

 

[Simpleton]

Fuller hasn’t caught more than 670 yards in a season since he has been in Houston. Not saying he isn’t talented, but saying he is an excellent number two is kind of stretching it. Especially considering the guy also has an issue with drops. Also, much of his meager stat line year by year is inflated by a couple huge performances, and then a lot of nothing.

He was on pace to be a 1000 yard WR the past two years, you don't often see 2 WR's on the same team going over 1000.

The only duos on par with Hopkins/Fuller are Evans/Godwin, Cooks/Kupp, Diggs/Thielen, Beckham/Landry and probably our own Cooper/Gallup.

 

[DontCryWolfe]

He was on pace to be a 1000 yard WR the past two years, you don't often see 2 WR's on the same team going over 1000.

The only duos on par with Hopkins/Fuller are Evans/Godwin, Cooks/Kupp, Diggs/Thielen, Beckham/Landry and probably our own Cooper/Gallup.

I’m not disagreeing with you that it is a formidable tandem, but of all those 1b guys you just mentioned, I would take them all over Fuller without a second thought. I hate employing this for argument’s sake, but if you take away that Atlanta game where Houston hung 50 on them, Fuller loses a third of his receiving production, and all of his TD’s. He had one game this year where he scored.

 

[ravidubey]

We’re biased in favor towards Dak as he turned four years of potential QB Hell into two playoff seasons when Romo went down.

But you have to project a player like Watson with Dak’s supporting cast. Has Matthew Stafford ever really had a reliable running game?

Watson has next level athleticism over Dak. Both he and Stafford are better passers. Dak’s greatest assets might be his durability and taking care of the football.

But the latter is mainly because he can.

His supporting cast lets him punt and try again.

Take the supporting cast away and we’ve seen his turnovers climb just like any QB.

Swap Dak and the QBs in question, and I think most would agree with Ace.

 

[ravidubey]

Last year Dak had a QBR of 70.2. Deshaun had a QBR of 68.7. What I like about QBR is it takes into account negative plays by a QB. So the sacks, fumbles, rushing yards are all part of that calculation. And frankly Dak just gives his team a better chance of winning.

Take away the unreal OL and superstar RB and Dak is in the same position as Watson.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

We’re biased in favor towards Dak as he turned four years of potential QB Hell into two playoff seasons when Romo went down.

But you have to project a player like Watson with Dak’s supporting cast. Has Matthew Stafford ever really had a reliable running game?

Watson has next level athleticism over Dak. Both he and Stafford are better passers. Dak’s greatest assets might be his durability and taking care of the football.

But the latter is mainly because he can.

His supporting cast lets him punt and try again.

Take the supporting cast away and we’ve seen his turnovers climb just like any QB.

Swap Dak and the QBs in question, and I think most would agree with Ace.

His supporting cast allows him to punt? How so? Our defense sucks.

 

[data]

His supporting cast allows him to punt? How so? Our defense sucks.

They don’t call Chris Jones Mr. Coffin Corner for nothing.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

They don’t call Chris Jones Mr. Coffin Corner for nothing.

That's what we call a pussy head coach punting from the 40 of the opponent.