Week 2 Game Day Chatter | Giants at Cowboys| 9-16-2018

[Rev]

Thread butchered.

 

[Smitty]

Lol so the individual performances don't have to meet 240 yards to be good. Your season average just has to? This argument is getting dumber and dumber.

You are getting dumber and dumber.

Yeah, a QB who averages 244 obviously doesn't throw for 244 every single game.

A QB who has a QB rating of 95 also doesn't have a QB rating of 95 every game. They come up with averages for a reason.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

If 240 ypg is "arbitrary" then why isn't a 95 rating arbitrary?

You cite 95 QB rating because that's generally what the good QBs have. That is generally reflective of a winning performance. Of course, you can still have a 95 QB rating and lose, and even be a losing QB, but generally 95 is good, because of correlation.

The same correlation exists for that 240-250 ypg barrier.

Generally, below that is bad. Generally, above that is good.

There are exceptions. Cam Newton is one.

But it's not arbitrary or meaningless.

Hey, tell us again how there's no meaningful difference between Prescott and Goff. That's a good one.

Because there is a very strong statistical correlation between winning football games and QB rating. There is basically none with passing yards. Which I posted above. I will say a 95 QB rating goal is a bit arbitrary or a 100 rating which is what I really want. Only because I don't know any statistics that back up that benchmark right this second.

 

[Smitty]

Hey, Jared Goff didn't even average 230 ypg last year.

Uh, yes he did. He averaged 253.

~crickets~

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Meaning what? That the guys with the most passing yards didn't always win? Maybe, but that's probably comparing guys who throw for 270 versus 280, maybe the guy with 270 won more of the time.

I bet you see a real strong correlation with passing days of under 200 yards. Look at that stat and then tell me how often that QB wins.

Every single game last year that Wentz failed to throw for 200 yards last season he won. Including the Giants...

 

[vince]

The Giants really are a sad panda of a team. It is pretty sad we are struggling to break 20 on them.

My thoughts throughout most of the game. We were more concerned with milking the clock than anything. But I can't say I blame them. We're obviously relying more on the defense than offense. There's still a lot of improvement needed.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Hey, Jared Goff didn't even average 230 ypg last year.

Uh, yes he did. He averaged 253.

~crickets~

Yeah I averaged him over 16 games. But that was when you claimed 250 YPG was the bench mark. What's his career average?

 

[Smitty]

Because there is a very strong statistical correlation between winning football games and QB rating. There is basically none with passing yards.

First of all, there is not "basically none" with passing yards. Your metric may show that there is low correlation between who passes for more in a game and who wins, and that very well may be true, because if you throw for 270 vs 280, other factors begin to be way more important at that level. But if you only throw for 150 yards, versus a guy who throws 250, there is a very strong correlation between winning and losing there. Again, show me sub-200 yard passing days, or sub 230 yard passing days, and it's correspondence with winning. I bet we see a trend.

Second, you seem to be really trying to argue that QB rating is a more important stat. I can buy that. But it doesn't make passing yardage "meaningless." There is still an obvious bright line for quality QBs. Otherwise, explain the discrepancy between why all the best are above 240-250 and the ones who suck are below that. You can't.

I don't need to address your idiotic "Carson Wentz didn't always throw for 240 yards in games he won" argument.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Anyway, this site is draining the shit out of my phone and I'm in court. This is the dumbest argument I'll be a part of today and I'm not going to waste more time talking about a subject you're clueless on.

 

[p1_]

We need a QB debate page, so these arguments can be had but not take over a thread. I think a number of us don't like having to read or scroll through the muck looking for something else in the thread. Maybe Im wrong.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

We need a QB debate page, so these arguments can be had but not take over a thread. I think a number of us don't like having to read or scroll through the muck looking for something else in the thread. Maybe Im wrong.

Sorry, I agree with you on that.

 

[Cotton]

Thread butchered.

I knew when I saw how many more replies had happened since I last checked in that there were most likely lawyers involved.

 

[Simpleton]

Replacing Dak in 2019 was never realistic, the QB class looks horrid.

That basically gives us two full seasons to make a decision on him, I wish that I could see him under a different staff but assuming we go about 8-8 this year I don't think that's going to happen.

Another option is that we might have to consider what is a manageable number that we could pay Dak and still have enough to build a team that can win around him. The Jaguars are paying Bortles 18 a year so I'm thinking somewhere around 20 in the 2020 offseason would be a fair number, we'd just have to be realistic about what type of team we're building.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

My takeaway: My god, Eli is horrific anymore. Mind bogglingly stupid they didn't take a QB last year.

Silver lining for them, they might be so bad again this year they get another chance.

Also, why do people claim the Giants' defense is so good? Other than Collins, Snacks, Ogletree, and Jenkins I saw all kinds of spare out there.

 

[Simpleton]

My takeaway: My god, Eli is horrific anymore. Mind bogglingly stupid they didn't take a QB last year.

Silver lining for them, they might be so bad again this year they get another chance.

Also, why do people claim the Giants' defense is so good? Other than Collins, Snacks, Ogletree, and Jenkins I saw all kinds of spare out there.

Their defense isn't that good although they were missing Vernon, they have a handful of top tier players but the rest of the guys are mediocre more or less.

The 2019 QB class is going to be shit so they can go ahead and take Will Grier/Justin Herbert at 5 or whatever and I wouldn't care, the 2020 class is where it's going to be at.

 

[midswat]

True story:

Last night I put the game on because my 11 year old has circled back around, claiming to be a cowboys fan again, and wanted to watch some of it with me before he had to go to bed.

Listening to the NBC intro/outro music and hearing Al Michaels kind of made me slightly nostalgic for how much I used to sincerely love the Cowboys and the NFL. Dak hits Tavon for a bomb and I feel a sliver of excitement...

.... production crew pans to dipshit Garrett smiling and clapping and this deep hatred robs my joy.

Okay kids, let’s get our teeth brushed, and it’s reading time for 30 min before bed.

I turn the game off and don’t give it another thought.


Vols play Florida this week. Two teams in rebuild - im excited about that. F Jerry, and F Garrett, and honestly F the Jones family altogether.

 

[Rev]

My takeaway: My god, Eli is horrific anymore. Mind bogglingly stupid they didn't take a QB last year.

Silver lining for them, they might be so bad again this year they get another chance.

Also, why do people claim the Giants' defense is so good? Other than Collins, Snacks, Ogletree, and Jenkins I saw all kinds of spare out there.

I kept wondering last night why they didnt grab Darnold instead. Guess Shurmur felt like he needed to win now imstead of with a rookie QB. That's the only thing I could think of. Eli didnt help them by returning for another year.

They will get another chance at a worse QB class, though.

 

[Smitty]

2017 Passing Stats

QBs with 9 wins or more

Brady - 13 wins - 286 ypg
Roethlisberger - 12 wins - 283 ypg
Rivers - 9 wins - 282 ypg
Stafford - 9 wins - 277 ypg
Brees - 10 wins - 270 ypg
Smith - 9 wins - 269 ypg
Ryan - 10 wins - 255 ypg
Goff - 11 wins - 253 ypg
Wentz - 11 wins - 253 ypg
Wilson - 9 wins - 248 ypg
Keenum - 11 wins - 236 ypg
Bortles - 10 wins - 230 ypg
Mariota - 9 wins - 215 ypg
Prescott - 9 wins - 207 ypg
Newton - 11 wins - 206 ypg
Flacco - 9 wins - 196 ypg

QBs with less than 9 wins:

Winston - 3 wins - 269 ypg
Cousins - 7 wins - 255 ypg
Carr - 6 wins - 233 ypg
Manning - 3 wins - 231 ypg
McCown - 5 wins - 225 ypg
Siemian - 5 wins - 207 ypg
Dalton - 7 wins - 207 ypg
Brissett - 4 wins - 196 ypg
Kizer - 0 wins - 192 ypg
Cutler - 6 wins - 190 ypg
Taylor - 8 wins - 186 ypg
Trubisky - 4 wins - 182 ypg
Savage - 1 win - 176 ypg
Hundley - 3 wins - 166 ypg


Only four QBs who passed for less than 230 ypg won 9 games (and 3 of the 4 won ONLY 9 games. Two of the four didn't make the playoffs). On the other hand, only four of the QBs who passed for MORE than 230 yards, didn't have at least 9 wins. Those include a notorious pea-brain in Winston, the QB of a horrific loser organization in Cousins with the Redskins, and the barely-over-230-quickly-falling-apart Eli Manning.

No trends there at all. Meaningless. Arbitrary. These stats have no meaning!

Yeah, QB rating is a better indicator. Passing yards still tell a story. There IS a meaningful divide around the 230-240 barrier.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Also you can't blame them for bringing in Butler. Not many out there who already know this complex, multifaceted offense.

 

[vince]

Also you can't blame them for bringing in Butler. Not many out there who already know this complex, multifaceted offense.

Didn't Butler go on ESPN talking smack about the Cowboys last year?