The Great Police Work Thread

[Cowboysrock55]

Simply put police officers should be conditioned to approach their duties with caution and fear because a great deal of their duties consist of circumstances that are potentially highly volatile. Their job as civilian protectors are contingent on how observant they can be toward seeing danger materializing. This is obviously not the common approach to most jobs.

For an every day traffic cop? I don't think he should be in constant fear every time he pulls someone over. Do bad things happen on traffic stops? Of course they do. But it is a severe minority of traffic stops. The percentages are way lower of a death then a lot of other professions.

Should a maintenance and repair worker approach his duties with caution and fear? His job has a higher likelihood of fatality than the officers? So do construction workers? And roofers?

I guess the question with peace officers is how much is it a real danger? And how much is it just a perceived danger? Because when it isn't a real danger, but they still perceive it as a dangerous situation, it then becomes dangerous for the public.

 

[L.T. Fan]

For an every day traffic cop? I don't think he should be in constant fear every time he pulls someone over. Do bad things happen on traffic stops? Of course they do. But it is a severe minority of traffic stops. The percentages are way lower of a death then a lot of other professions.

Should a maintenance and repair worker approach his duties with caution and fear? His job has a higher likelihood of fatality than the officers? So do construction workers? And roofers?

I guess the question with peace officers is how much is it a real danger? And how much is it just a perceived danger? Because when it isn't a real danger, but they still perceive it as a dangerous situation, it then becomes dangerous for the public.

Maintainence workers etc., know what their dangers are and they are static for the most part. Being alert to dangerous practices simply entails observation of these static components. Dealing with people is a completely different set of circumstances. The dynamics can change immediately.

 

[Cotton]

For an every day traffic cop? I don't think he should be in constant fear every time he pulls someone over. Do bad things happen on traffic stops? Of course they do. But it is a severe minority of traffic stops. The percentages are way lower of a death then a lot of other professions.

Should a maintenance and repair worker approach his duties with caution and fear? His job has a higher likelihood of fatality than the officers? So do construction workers? And roofers?

I guess the question with peace officers is how much is it a real danger? And how much is it just a perceived danger? Because when it isn't a real danger, but they still perceive it as a dangerous situation, it then becomes dangerous for the public.

The difference is with those other professions the inherent danger is by and large not dependent on someone pulling a damn gun on you. If you fall off a roof, it's your own damn fault. It's not like someone pushed you off. When you deal with criminals it's a completely different dynamic. Not acknowledging that is dishonest and tbh reeks of agenda.

And, yes, repair/roofing/construction people should approach their job with fear. But, it's not fear of other people. It's fear of their own fuckups.

And, perceived danger? Have you not seen or heard about all of the cop shootings on traffic stops? If you haven't then you are either sheltered or lying to yourself about them not being fairly rampant. It takes only one cop getting shot walking up to a car for the entire cop population to be on edge. But, now that we have had a staged and planned execution of cops plus many more follow up shootings targeting cops of course they are on even more alert. As well they should be. If you didn't know if the person you were stopping might shoot you in the face or not, you would be on edge, too. To say otherwise is ignorant and careless. These people put their lives on the line daily. I don't give a fuck that recliner cops like you don't understand that. You have never been in their shoes, and haven't a clue what you're talking about when discussing what they should or should not be afraid of when approaching an unknown in a traffic stop. Just because you have dealt with criminals who gave you their one-sided story about their interactions with cops? GTFOH. That's retarded.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Have you not seen or heard about all of the cop shootings on traffic stops?

You know how many times that happens as a percentage? When people bitch about officers shooting innocent people you can't help but point out how extremely rare that is. Well it's also extremely rare for cop to be shot on routine traffic incidents. It's funny because both sides of this thing are being fooled by media coverage. When their are millions of stops and one goes wrong. The media is going to show the one that goes wrong a million times. Suddenly everyone is conditioned to think traffic stops are horribly dangerous. When in reality the odds of anything like that happening are extremely close to 0%.

Bad things happen when people expect bad things to happen. It goes for those being pulled over and those doing the pulling over.

 

[Rev]

All it takes is just one time. Being the son of a police officer that was involved in a shootout I can tell you traffic stops are not to be taken lightly just because it's a routine stop or percentages show it doesn't happen that often. What a stupid way to risk your life.

My dad was responding to help his fellow officer ( and you guys always wonder why there seems to be more than one cop) who had stopped a guy that was speeding. He happened to have a warrant and jumped the officer. By the time my dad showed up they were beating the officer pretty badly. Long story short my dad shot the guy in the stomach but was shot in his arm with the gun that was taken off the officer as he lay unconscious. The passenger took off as more help showed up. I was less than 8 years old at the time and this happened just a few blocks from my house in a town of less than 10k.

 

[townsend]

I think there needs to be a line drawn between vigilance, and hypervigilance. Being aware of your surroundings and understanding possible threats is pretty much par for course in any job where you might be required to use lethal force. But if people can't identify when someone isn't a threat, then they're no longer protecting the public, they're a danger to it.

I think we fix this best by monitoring officers mindsets, getting them plenty of counseling, and not working them to death. The incident in McKinney where a cop did a flip and pulled his gun on a teenage girl. People don't know that cop had to watch two people kill themselves earlier that day. That's insane, there's no job where you should have to watch a suicide and go back to work.

 

[Jiggyfly]

The problem with the argument is that you can't claim that someone has been conditioned and then talk to a person who has been conditioned to be in fear on his job and expect him to say anything other then what the conditioning has taught him. Which is that the fear is justified and necessary.

It's not different then talking to a black person who I would claim has been conditioned by media to be in fear every time they are pulled over, and then expect that conditioned person to say their terror isn't justified.

I'm sure some people feel like officers have the most dangerous job in the United States. And hell maybe that is true. Statistically they aren't even close but you'll never convince an officer of that because the easy counter argument is that they are just hyper vigillant compared to other careers with much higher death rates such as Logging workers, Fishers and related fishing workers, Aircraft pilots and flight engineers and Roofers. That it's their guns and threat of lethal use that keeps their job from having the highest death rate.

But the cause of a lot of these police shootings is pretty clear, it's officers that are overly fearful in situations that they shouldn't be so afraid.

Nicely stated, I agree.

 

[Cotton]

You know how many times that happens as a percentage? When people bitch about officers shooting innocent people you can't help but point out how extremely rare that is. Well it's also extremely rare for cop to be shot on routine traffic incidents. It's funny because both sides of this thing are being fooled by media coverage. When their are millions of stops and one goes wrong. The media is going to show the one that goes wrong a million times. Suddenly everyone is conditioned to think traffic stops are horribly dangerous. When in reality the odds of anything like that happening are extremely close to 0%.

Bad things happen when people expect bad things to happen. It goes for those being pulled over and those doing the pulling over.

"It only happens to a few cops, surely it will never happen to me." is the worst possible thing you can think as a cop. It will get you killed.

 

[Cotton]

All it takes is just one time.

Yep, and that's the whole point.

 

[Cotton]

This whole notion that someone thinks they can sit in the comfort of their own home and tell cops how fearful they should be is fucking laughable.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

"It only happens to a few cops, surely it will never happen to me." is the worst possible thing you can think as a cop. It will get you killed.

And treating every traffic stop like a life or death situation is also the worst possible thing you can do. It will also get someone killed.

 

[townsend]

And treating every traffic stop like a life or death situation is also the worst possible thing you can do. It will also get someone killed.

I think that's the unspoken problem, the idea that "better I shoot first and save my life, than hesitate and save his"
The bottom line seems to be some cops are more comfortable risking other people's lives than their own.

 

[Cotton]

And treating every traffic stop like a life or death situation is also the worst possible thing you can do. It will also get someone killed.

Treating every traffic stop as a potential life or death situation is what keeps cops alive. But, I guess that doesn't really matter to you does it?

 

[Cotton]

I think that's the unspoken problem, the idea that "better I shoot first and save my life, than hesitate and save his"
The bottom line seems to be some cops are more comfortable risking other people's lives than their own.

The generalizations and hyperbole has gotten thick.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Treating every traffic stop as a potential life or death situation is what keeps cops alive. But, I guess that doesn't really matter to you does it?

I don't know how anyone can advise a law enforcement person how to deal with traffic stops except other experienced law enforcement personnel. There are a ton of theories about what should be the proper way to go about it but the bottom line is walk a mile in my shoes.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Treating every traffic stop as a potential life or death situation is what keeps cops alive. But, I guess that doesn't really matter to you does it?

So who cares if a few innocent people die as a result?

I mean shooting every person you pull over on a traffic stop would keep cops alive too. But it's stupid as shit and costly to the rest of society. I want cops to survive as much as the next person. But I also want to prevent officers from shooting and killing innocent people. And treating every stop like the officer is in the middle of a war with the public won't save lives.

 

[L.T. Fan]

So who cares if a few innocent people die as a result?

I mean shooting every person you pull over on a traffic stop would keep cops alive too. But it's stupid as shit and costly to the rest of society. I want cops to survive as much as the next person. But I also want to prevent officers from shooting and killing innocent people. And treating every stop like the officer is in the middle of a war with the public won't save lives.

Everyone wants the same thing. I suppose the real question is how much can a cop be asked to get a comfort zone with routine traffic stops when they are routinely trained to approach them with full level alert status. It's not resonable to tell them to be Mr. Mom with a stop then expect them to be prepared for anything.

 

[townsend]

Everyone wants the same thing. I suppose the real question is how much can a cop be asked to get a comfort zone with routine traffic stops when they are routinely trained to approach them with full level alert status. It's not resonable to tell them to be Mr. Mom with a stop then expect them to be prepared for anything.

It seems like the answer is to keep regularly evaluating cops for stability and reasonable threat assessment capabilities. Seems like the answer is to find the cops that might be trigger happy, and find a job for them that's less potentially lethal.

 

[fortsbest]

It's true that Whites get shot and no one gives a damn. Mostly because whites really aren't a unified group. But the number of unarmed minorities that get shot is not a lie.

https://www.propublica.org/article/deadly-force-in-black-and-white

For whatever reason (and there are a few) cops are far more likely to use lethal force when dealing with young black men. That's not a vilification of the police, because I'm in agreement with the Dallas police chief that we ask too much. We place too much pressure on the police force, and I think we should be evaluating their mental state much more closely.

My contention here is that it isn't just minorities that are at risk from this type officer, but everyone. I'm not so stupid as to deny there isn't racism still alive in some people but it is not the epidemic that politicians and media would have you believe. And Even less so in police. Most police are about getting bad guys and truly helping the citizens of whatever community they work in. In terms of media trying to manipulate the message, did you guys see the CNN clip about the Milwaukee slaying where CNN played a bit of a prayer and how the sister was calling for peace by saying"don't bring the violence and ignorance here" when the rest of the clip they didn't play was her saying something like "take it to the suburbs and burn their shit down!"

A perfect example was the behavioral therapist in Florida that was shot. He asked the cop why he shot him, and the cop responded that he "didn't know". That's crazy pants. That's a situation where an officer so scared that they are threats to the people around them, and his involvement accelerated a situation that could probably could have been solved without him, into one that that could have ended a life.

That proves nothing. Shooting someone or accidentally shooting someone (not sure the circumstance here) is traumatic and a single answer to a question immediately after proves nothing.

We need to do more to help officers that are past the point of vigilance and are showing erratic and dangerous behaviors. We need to get them in situations where they don't have to decide whether or not to deploy lethal force.

I absolutely agree with you. That is why I constantly interact with my officers and pay attention to their work to see if something is off. It's caring about you coworkers because their actions can and typically do affect you.

 

[fortsbest]

The problem with the argument is that you can't claim that someone has been conditioned and then talk to a person who has been conditioned to be in fear on his job and expect him to say anything other then what the conditioning has taught him. Which is that the fear is justified and necessary.

I don't understand where those of you saying this get the idea that officers are taught to fear anything. Just because you are taught to be cautious and aware does not mean you are taught to be fearful. On the contrary, You train to be aware and cautious of the dangers so you won't be scared and you can act as calmly and responsibly in stressful situations. I'm not saying I've never been scared, but I neither have I ever worked in constant fear. I rely on my senses and training to help me act calmly and rationally in those situations when I need it. It doesn't prevent me from being friendly, courteous or caring. Your ideas about this are all twisted.

It's not different then talking to a black person who I would claim has been conditioned by media to be in fear every time they are pulled over, and then expect that conditioned person to say their terror isn't justified.

It is different as I described. It is the victim's mentality. You take a small amount of events, let the politicians and media blow it way out of proportion even though none of them have personally ever experienced it and they allow it to dominate the

I'm sure some people feel like officers have the most dangerous job in the United States. And hell maybe that is true. Statistically they aren't even close but you'll never convince an officer of that because the easy counter argument is that they are just hyper vigillant compared to other careers with much higher death rates such as Logging workers, Fishers and related fishing workers, Aircraft pilots and flight engineers and Roofers. That it's their guns and threat of lethal use that keeps their job from having the highest death rate.

But the cause of a lot of these police shootings is pretty clear, it's officers that are overly fearful in situations that they shouldn't be so afraid.[/QUOTE]

It's a dangerous job, but not the physically risky in my mind. But the unpredictability of dealing with other humans when they aren't on their best behavior is where the risk lies. As to your last statement I would say it could be in some cases, but that is an overgeneralization to say the cause is clear.