The Great Police Work Thread

[L.T. Fan]

If I may get all tumblr on you. That's called privilege.

Go live in Ferguson where federal employees are dragged out of their cars by cops. Where you can be beaten mercilessly by cops and charged for bleeding on their uniforms. Where one third of the population has a warrant out for there arrest, and police chiefs say shit like "Let's make our jail cells a little more colorful today."

New York where an entire justice system is in place for oppression of poor blacks. Where you can spend years in jail for not admitting to a crime you didn't commit. Where being big is reason enough to choke a man to death.

Go to Baltimore where just calling the cops can likely end in you being assaulted by the cops, and running from the cops means they're allowed to beat you to death.

Go to Cleveland where being a black child with a toy is excuse to gun him down in cold blood.

Go to Texas where a man with pepper spray, a tazer and a gun can feel threatened by a lit cigarette.

Maybe it's just a coincidence that these incidents happen more often in high crime areas.

 

[townsend]

Maybe it's just a coincidence that these incidents happen more often in high crime areas.

It is definitely not a coincidence. There's also plenty of hostility officers face in what has become two sides of an abusive relationship. The difference is, the establishment has the power to change things, rather than act like an occupying force in a foreign country.

Cops should be of the community, and for the community. If things have devolved to the point that these high crime areas have become a place where any civilian can be seen as the enemy. There's a serious issue with the policing of that area.

 

[L.T. Fan]

It is definitely not a coincidence. There's also plenty of hostility officers face in what has become two sides of an abusive relationship. The difference is, the establishment has the power to change things, rather than act like an occupying force in a foreign country.

Cops should be of the community, and for the community. If things have devolved to the point that these high crime areas have become a place where any civilian can be seen as the enemy. There's a serious issue with the policing of that area.

You don't see any responsibility toward the community itself and how they might help change the adversarial attitude? Or do you feel It,s the primary fault of the system and it should be dismantled?

 

[L.T. Fan]

Continuing, I see a sharp contract in certain communities. There are scoundrels in many neighborhoods but when they are confronted you don't necessarily see the whole neighborhood roll out and protest then possibly riot. But there are some areas that will use an injustice to riot and destroy innocent people's property. This is just a fact caused by the community members not just the unjust act alone.

 

[townsend]

You don't see any responsibility toward the community itself and how they might help change the adversarial attitude? Or do you feel It,s the primary fault of the system and it should be dismantled?

I think that violent criminals should always be held accountable for their actions. No one gets a pass for hurting another person.

But I think it's nearly impossible for someone to grow up in a place like Ferguson without a rap sheet. Citizens get ticketed for walking on the street, and a dozen other stupid laws that wouldn't be enforced on a community that cops didn't have an adversarial relationship with. Then those unpaid tickets eventually turn into prison time.

The only way to make money as a felon is to commit crime. So what we're effectively doing is convicting non-violent people and sending them to prison to make criminal connections, and take away any other employment opportunities.

The end result is a vicious cycle of poverty and crime.

 

[townsend]

Continuing, I see a sharp contract in certain communities. There are scoundrels in many neighborhoods but when they are confronted you don't necessarily see the whole neighborhood roll out and protest then possibly riot. But there are some areas that will use an injustice to riot and destroy innocent people's property. This is just a fact caused by the community members not just the unjust act alone.

There are a lot of good protestors. Unfortunately when a violent minority cause trouble, it's blamed on the protestors as a whole.

For some reason when University of Kentucky students riot after a football game, no one considers them scoundrels, much less an entire college where it happened.

 

[L.T. Fan]

There are a lot of good protestors. Unfortunately when a violent minority cause trouble, it's blamed on the protestors as a whole.

For some reason when University of Kentucky students riot after a football game, no one considers them scoundrels, much less an entire college where it happened.

Don't have a problem with protesters but the rioters I do. And it seems to be true they are predominantly imports brought in by others with an agenda. With that being the case what is the solution to that? Dismantling the police force and allowing the neighborhood looters to have their was with innocent people's property. If I am not mistaken the police department was pretty much stiffled by their own superiors who were leaning to the injustice doctrine which led to extended disruption and violence.

 

[L.T. Fan]

There are a lot of good protestors. Unfortunately when a violent minority cause trouble, it's blamed on the protestors as a whole.

For some reason when University of Kentucky students riot after a football game, no one considers them scoundrels, much less an entire college where it happened.

When protests develop into violence of any kind it's hard to identify and carve out the culprits from a large mob.

 

[townsend]

When protests develop into violence of any kind it's hard to identify and carve out the culprits from a large mob.

True. But I think to frequently it's manipulated to rob validity from important causes.

If a bunch of stupid students tip over cars after their team loses, I would not take it as an indictment on collegiate sports or the Kentucky State Wildcats. They're idiots whose actions don't represent the organization.

 

[L.T. Fan]

True. But I think to frequently it's manipulated to rob validity from important causes.

If a bunch of stupid students tip over cars after their team loses, I would not take it as an indictment on collegiate sports or the Kentucky State Wildcats. They're idiots whose actions don't represent the organization.

I think we both agree with this. It is different however from a given community that has on going crime incidents.

 

[L.T. Fan]

I guess my point is that police activities are going to be in direct relation ship to the areas they are overseeing.

 

[townsend]

Don't have a problem with protesters but the rioters I do. And it seems to be true they are predominantly imports brought in by others with an agenda. With that being the case what is the solution to that? Dismantling the police force and allowing the neighborhood looters to have their was with innocent people's property. If I am not mistaken the police department was pretty much stiffled by their own superiors who were leaning to the injustice doctrine which led to extended disruption and violence.

Honestly I don't know the best way to handle a riot, I've never been involved in one and never been taught strategies to stop them.

There's part of me that wonders whether a disbanded police force wouldn't help some areas, I think that largely depends on the strength of gangs in the area.

 

[townsend]

I guess my point is that police activities are going to be in direct relation ship to the areas they are overseeing.

That is true. The question becomes, what culture is being propagated there? Just as it's wholly unacceptable for someone disadvantaged to hurt someone else out of desperation or frustration, it's absolutely unacceptable for people in authority to develop a contempt for their community.

In Ferguson, Baltimore, and New York that is definitely the case and it's a toxic culture that is going to continue to make those communities poor and criminal.

 

[L.T. Fan]

That is true. The question becomes, what culture is being propagated there? Just as it's wholly unacceptable for someone disadvantaged to hurt someone else out of desperation or frustration, it's absolutely unacceptable for people in authority to develop a contempt for their community.

In Ferguson, Baltimore, and New York that is definitely the case and it's a toxic culture that is going to continue to make those communities poor and criminal.

So what's the solution?

 

[townsend]

So what's the solution?

I think the first thing is accountability. This is why body cameras have been a go to solution. The more visibility, the less wiggle room a cop or criminal have with the truth.

It's not a silver bullet. But the more exposure every police interaction gets the more we can absolutely establish who's right and who's wrong. I don't want cops caught in bullshit lawsuits they don't deserve either.

We need to overhaul training. Iamtdg mentioned that some cops feel like their life is threatened every day. That's insane and I think we make our officers unreasonably scared of the public they're trying to protect.

This creates a destructive cycle where cops are scared for their lives so they use more lethal force and criminals are also scared for their lives, in what becomes a self fulfilling prophesy.

We need to stop treating peacekeepers like the military. If you're supposed to maintain peace and order, do not bust into people's homes armed to the teeth to serve warrants.
How many officers have lost their lives invading people's homes like they were marines in Kabul? How many civilians have lost their lives in the terror and confusion of the invasion?

 

[townsend]

The number one solution:

End. The. War. On. Drugs.

No more unnecessary arrests and jail time of people who aren't hurting anyone. Way less non violent criminals in the prison pipeline, way less lives forced back into crime out of desperation.

No more bankrolling gangs and cartels by giving them exclusive access to a product people will pay for. Less gang activity due to a lack of felons as foot soldiers. Less violence over turf.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Well see if you can get governmental and law enforcement officials to agree with you. Personally I don't know the solution. Crime has a long history in the annals of mankind. Some say changing man's nature is the answer while others swear that freedom to pursue is and yet some say strict adherence to the rules are the only acceptable way. Puts it to square one for me. I have no absolute answers but I do have some experiences that say trouble will leave you alone most of the time if you don't go looking for it. That's the best I can offer.

 

[Cotton]

Why do more blacks commit crimes? Is it because of genetics?

Maybe because we have multi-tiered systems of exclusion and extortion set up to prey on people who can't afford to litigate.

You know how I mentioned above how a ridiculous percentage of Ferguson residents have warrants out for their arrest? Most of them are for ridiculous tickets that the residents can't afford to pay.

We have a pipeline set up to funnel black folks into prisons thanks to cycles of poverty, desperation, and crime.

That doesn't excuse black criminals for the violent crimes they commit. But it also doesn't excuse violent crimes perpetrated against them by cops either.

All caused by slavery, right?

This is dumb. Ferguson residents are not any more subject to the law than anyone else.

They got tickets for doing stuff the law says they can't? OMG

The pipeline statement is the funniest to me. We have set up our system to target black people?

 

[Cotton]

But I think it's nearly impossible for someone to grow up in a place like Ferguson without a rap sheet.

Victim mentality. It's going to kill this country. Do you seriously think that the laws in Ferguson are so much worse than the rest of the country? Really?

Citizens get ticketed for walking on the street, and a dozen other stupid laws that wouldn't be enforced on a community that cops didn't have an adversarial relationship with. Then those unpaid tickets eventually turn into prison time.

Are you saying that people should disobey the law because they might think it's outdated, and if they do they shouldn't who up to their court dates? And it's the system's fault that they end up in jail? Not their own fault for not doing what the system says they they have to? Like a 14 year old that doesn't like what his parents tell them to do? You are such a revolutionist.

The only way to make money as a felon is to commit crime. So what we're effectively doing is convicting non-violent people and sending them to prison to make criminal connections, and take away any other employment opportunities.

The end result is a vicious cycle of poverty and crime.

So as long as people don't commit violent crimes, they should be allowed to do what law abiding citizens do and get employment however they would like regardless of their past. This is the stupidest thing you have ever posted.

 

[Cotton]

The root of this debate is this. Idealists think they can end issues between cops and criminals by flipping a switch.

Realists like me know that's not possible. So, I argue that maybe it's the criminals that are the main issue, and the anti-establishment peeps are like "ALL COPS SUCK" and they should all be reformed and stuff or some shit.

The middle ground won't be found with idealism. It has to be found through practical thinking, and that won't happen when you are looking through glasses that see the majority of cops as bad men. It just won't.