Sturm's Draft Series

[Jiggyfly]

And you wouldn't notice much of an improvement in the O-line still.

That's comical it would give us better run balance and would negate having to help out Free against great pass rushers.

Not to mention how much better we would be blocking on the 2nd level.

 

[Jiggyfly]

They actually took Roy after Charles Rogers as well. But yes, it's the BPA argument except taken to the extreme. Like hey, if you've already taken 3 first round O-lineman, lets take a fourth. It's not like we missed on them either. We have 3 probowl O-lineman and probably a fourth coming soon in Collins. So you're literally saying I have a position with 4 young probowl talents, and I think it's worthwhile to use one of the highest picks in the draft to take another. It's just silly at this point. If Tunsil is that good, then trade down because someone else should want him badly.

It's stupid to ever overlook A list talent just because, especially when that talent plays a position that will need to be filled very soon.

The fact you keep skipping over is that there are 5 positions on the o-line, you should always look to fill each position with the best talent available especially when that talent is rated higher than the other available talent.

Now the level of talent is a debateable topic but to not include Tunsil as a possibility is stupid.

 

[Smitty]

Yeah, I think you'd notice inserting Tunsil into the lineup pretty easily.

There are some diminishing returns when you've already got 4 stud linemen but, uh, if you are telling me Myles Jack is Thomas Davis and Tunsil is Tyron Smith, then I'm taking Tunsil.

Obviously you'd prefer to get a different position once you are as stocked on OL as we are but its not looking like our options at 4 will be all that great if it's not Tunsil or a QB. I have a bad feeling about Bosa.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Yeah, I think you'd notice inserting Tunsil into the lineup pretty easily.

It's very doubtful. We have the best offensive line in football. We made McFadden look like a top NFL RB. We had the best pass protection last year. No offense, replacing Free with Tunsil won't make much of a difference. According to PFF we were first in run blocking and second in pass protection. Drafting Tunsil would be the most massive overkill I could think of.

And again if he is as good as Schmitty and Jiggy think he is, we should be able to rape a team in a trade down (Well unless of course he isn't really a head and shoulders better prospect).

 

[Smitty]

Well you can make the argument for trading down, but come on, you wouldn't notice him as an immediate upgrade to Doug Free by leaps and bounds? That's silly.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Well you can make the argument for trading down, but come on, you wouldn't notice him as an immediate upgrade to Doug Free by leaps and bounds? That's silly.

You wouldn't notice the line performing much different, which is what really matters. It's so easy to cover for one average O-lineman when you have 4 probowl caliber talents. It's ridiculous to spend a fortune on a RT when you have the other 4 that we have. (And yes the fourth pick in the draft is "spending" a shit ton).

 

[Jiggyfly]

It's very doubtful. We have the best offensive line in football. We made McFadden look like a top NFL RB. We had the best pass protection last year. No offense, replacing Free with Tunsil won't make much of a difference. According to PFF we were first in run blocking and second in pass protection. Drafting Tunsil would be the most massive overkill I could think of.

And again if he is as good as Schmitty and Jiggy think he is, we should be able to rape a team in a trade down (Well unless of course he isn't really a head and shoulders better prospect).

You keep talking like Free is youngin, why never factor in that you would be insuring no falloff if Free continues to be injured and you could just move on and save cap room.

Free has missed a ton of time in 2 out of the last 3 years.

 

[Cotton]

[h=1]Bob Sturm's 2016 Draft Profile Series: Myles Jack, LB, UCLA Is a Premium Player at a Non Premium Position[/h]
By Bob Sturm, Special contributor Contact Bob Sturmon Twitter:@SportsSturm

I have never been a scout or a NFL General Manager, but I am willing to watch a ton of football. By watching about 200 snaps of each prospect, we can really get a feel for a player and then know what we are talking about a bit better. It is no exact science, but the NFL hasn't quite figured out drafting either, so we are going to do the best we can.To read more about the 2016 NFL Draft Project, Click Here.

Myles Jack, LB, UCLA- 6'1, 245 - Junior - #30

Throw a rock in any direction and you will find someone giving you thoughts on which stud prospect the Cowboys should grab at #4 these days. This is the highest the team has picked in 25 years, so draft fever is already uncommonly high with 10 weeks to go. Many of those have had plenty to say to endorse Myles Jack, the very young, incredibly gifted, and extremely versatile run-and-hit linebacker from UCLA.

Jack is quite a talent who took the Pac 12 by storm when he was a 2-way freshman and was "freshman of the year" on both sides of the ball as a running back and linebacker. Just let that soak in. This past September, he suffered a rather significant knee injury (torn meniscus) that shut down his college career after just 3 games this year. But, the recovery has already reached a point where he has said he plans on competing at the upcoming NFL Combine with no limitations.

He is a 3-down linebacker, but he is also so much more. His versatility as a "football player" is simply off the charts. The question that must be asked is whether he plays a position that is worthy of a Top 5 pick or not. Traditionally, if linebackers are going to go this high in the draft, they better be edge rushers. Non-pass rush linebackers seldom go in the Top 10 of the draft because they are not seen as a premium position (QB, LT, Pass rusher, CB) or a game breaker (WR, RB). Rather, the TE, G, C, FS, SS, and non-pass rush LBs are acknowledged as important for sure, but perhaps not the gold bricks at the top. Since 2005, AJ Hawk, Ernie Sims, Keith Rivers, Jerod Mayo, Aaron Curry, Rolando McClain, Luke Kuechly have all gone in the Top 10. Only Kuechly and perhaps Mayo for a few seasons would be considered "special" in the NFL from that list. The others ranged from "solid" to complete flops. If they were all Kuechly, you would run to the podium for Jack, but this isn't how the draft works.







What I liked: He is as explosive as it gets in the middle of the field. He runs with the speed of a defensive back and yet hits like a thunderous linebacker. He covers as well as any linebacker, including long stretches where UCLA would just put him in the slot against a wide receiver and he would seldom give up anything. He takes on blockers with pop and is able to manipulate them despite giving up 50 pounds. He has a mean streak and determination that is very impressive. He can run sideline to sideline and seems to always have a read on where the ball is headed. His athleticism allows him to almost stay flat-footed and watch the QB, then react in time to make the play. It is really uncommon ability. He is so much fun to watch. I don't believe he is a safety (245 is a huge safety), but I don't doubt he could play it pretty well.





What I did not like: His production. This is why this position is a tough sell to someone who believes that you must get a premium position that high in the draft. In 26 college games, he had 15 tackles for loss and 1 sack (as well as 4 interceptions). He doesn't make plays behind the line of scrimmage because that isn't his job. But, in the Top 5 picks in the draft, you better get someone who has the job of making explosive plays - either offensively or defensively (with the possible exception of a shutdown corner or left tackle). As for his technique, there is very little not to like. His knee might make you a bit nervous, but I am already hearing that very few concerns exist at this point. He is very versatile, but does he have a perfect home? Perhaps as your middle linebacker, who can then cover downfield like a slot corner. That is a rare bird.





Summary and Potential Fit For the Cowboys: It is a really interesting discussion because there is no doubt this is one of the finest football players in the draft. I just don't believe you take a non-pass rush linebacker this high 9 times out of 10. Jack is masterful at making tackles and covering guys downfield, but how high can that be valued unless we are confident he is Luke Kuechly's clone? In other words, he has almost no weaknesses in his game, but does he play a position that impacts your end result enough to justify at that spot? Can you take this position in Round 2 (Bobby Wagner, Sean Lee, Lavonte David) or Round 3 (Navarro Bowman) and find gems there?

If I am picking in the Top 5 (where game changers are available at nearly every spot on the field), I must make sure I am getting a premium player at a premium position. Now, if the Cowboys trade-back a bit, it makes all the sense in the world. I think he will be a household name for the next decade. I just don't believe in paying premium prices for a non-premium position. That said, Myles Jack is one of the more flawless players in this draft and there will come a point where someone with fewer needs to address might snap him up and haunt you with him for years to come.

You can view plenty of his tape here at Draftbreakdown.com.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

You keep talking like Free is youngin, why never factor in that you would be insuring no falloff if Free continues to be injured and you could just move on and save cap room.

Free has missed a ton of time in 2 out of the last 3 years.

And when Free is done you either go to Chaz or put a small amount of reaources into a free agent. No reason to spend a fortune (high first draft pick) when you just need a giy who isn't a total liability.

 

[Smitty]

Well no one has said we'd "need" an elite replacement for Free and I do think a guy like Chaz Green could be fine there, but again, if you are talking about another Tyron Smith, yes, you will be a difference. Protection will be even better and yards per carry would improve even more, etc. You'd notice it.

 

[Jiggyfly]

And when Free is done you either go to Chaz or put a small amount of reaources into a free agent. No reason to spend a fortune (high first draft pick) when you just need a giy who isn't a total liability.

See This is where you are being disingenuous.

It's not easy as that finding a suitable replacement, hell just 3 years ago most were ready to run off Free.

And let's not forget how many turds we had at RT before Free.

If you want this line to continue to play at this level or even improve it's going to more than a small amount of resources and you know this.

Add in the fact it's more than likely the next QB will not be as elusive in the pocket as Romo and it makes even more sense.

Not a total Liability, please.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Well no one has said we'd "need" an elite replacement for Free and I do think a guy like Chaz Green could be fine there, but again, if you are talking about another Tyron Smith, yes, you will be a difference. Protection will be even better and yards per carry would improve even more, etc. You'd notice it.

But is it a significant difference? Meaning if 4 guys are blowing their men off the ball and it's pretty damn easy for a RB even if the fifth is just standing in the way of his guy? Pass protection is a ton easier too. If the rest of the O-line is stonewalling their guys, it's easy for a QB to move around and avoid the rush if the fifth guy isn't great. You can also really easily slide protection or have the RB chip on that side. So the end result is basically the same. Except you just paid a fortune for an elite LT who won't ever play LT.

 

[Jiggyfly]

But is it a significant difference? Meaning if 4 guys are blowing their men off the ball and it's pretty damn easy for a RB even if the fifth is just standing in the way of his guy? Pass protection is a ton easier too. If the rest of the O-line is stonewalling their guys, it's easy for a QB to move around and avoid the rush if the fifth guy isn't great. You can also really easily slide protection or have the RB chip on that side. So the end result is basically the same. Except you just paid a fortune for an elite LT who won't ever play LT.

If this is how you think an o-line works, this conversation is over.

And the idea is not to have your QB moving around avoiding anybody, you know because it's easier to pass when your feet are set.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

If this is how you think an o-line works, this conversation is over.

And the idea is not to have your QB moving around avoiding anybody, you know because it's easier to pass when your feet are set.

All QB's climb the pocket. It's like Football 101 shit. And sliding to the left isn't difficult either.

 

[Jiggyfly]

All QB's climb the pocket. It's like Football 101 shit. And sliding to the left isn't difficult either.

Yes they do it but it never should be something you plan on happening the majority of the time.

Having as clean a pocket as possible is Football 101.

Really are you actually debating this?

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Yes they do it but it never should be something you plan on happening the majority of the time.

Who said the majority of the time? Shit Doug Free gave up a grand total of 4 sacks last season. And you guys are talking about a massive improvement. So what, Tunsil will maybe give up 2? Talk about season altering .

 

[Jiggyfly]

Who said the majority of the time? Shit Doug Free gave up a grand total of 4 sacks last season. And you guys are talking about a massive improvement. So what, Tunsil will maybe give up 2? Talk about season altering .

Ok.

 

[Simpleton]

So no one is talking about Sturm's analysis of Jack?

To be fair, it's more or less exactly what I've said of him for a while now so it's nothing new but I thought people would be discussing it more since he's been a hot topic recently.

If we end up taking him at 4 I would be luke warm to it, not completely enthused, not distraught, I'd be willing to see how it works out because I think he could be a cornerstone type of LB, like a Bobby Wagner, Kuechly or Patrick Willis.

Still though, QB is the move, obviously.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

If we end up taking him at 4 I would be luke warm to it, not completely enthused, not distraught, I'd be willing to see how it works out because I think he could be a cornerstone type of LB, like a Bobby Wagner, Kuechly or Patrick Willis.

Pretty much echoed my concerns. Great athlete, looks awesome running and tackling. Didn't make very many plays in college though which is a big red flag. In a way sort of like Jalen Ramsey. He could be a big time player or he might just be a big time athlete.

 

[Simpleton]

Pretty much echoed my concerns. Great athlete, looks awesome running and tackling. Didn't make very many plays in college though which is a big red flag. In a way sort of like Jalen Ramsey. He could be a big time player or he might just be a big time athlete.

They are somewhat similar in terms of being outstanding athletes with somewhat underwhelming stats, although it is fair to point out that Jack had more career INT's than Ramsey in basically a full season less of games. I also think the big difference between the two is that Jack has such rare cover ability for a LB, it's something I've almost never seen from a LB his size, Ramsey doesn't have any traits like that.

And another thing, there is this idea that Jaylon Smith is such a superior prospect to Jack but his production is no better than Jack's.

Over their first 2 seasons Jack had 15 TFL, 1 sack, 3 INT's, 18 PD's, 2 FR's and 1 FF, Smith had 14.5 TFL, 3.5 sacks, 0 INT's, 5 PD's, 1 FR, 2 FF.

Of course Smith had a full season while Jack only played 3 games as a junior but Smith's stats as a junior are almost identical to the year before, he was no more productive than Jack at all and you could easily argue that assuming Jack is 100%, he's the better prospect because of his rare coverage ability.