LBGT bulies and Schools

[Cowboysrock55]

Don't know where you live, but in this state, teachers are not paid on par with most jobs that require a four year degree.

I'm from Iowa, so when I talk about salaries I am talking about salaries of teachers there. I live in Missouri and I honestly don't know what teachers make here but I know there are a shit ton of teachers and not a lot of jobs. I know I dated a girl who went to school to be a teacher, has graduated, and is one of the ones who does have a job. She wasn't very smart at all but she went to an easy college that handed out A's like they were going out of style. Based on these facts the only conclusion I can come to is that teachers are over paid in Missouri and I don't need to know what their actual salary is in order to come to that conclusion. Nationwide their is a surplus of teachers. Now maybe where you live that isn't the case and when I say teachers are overpaid in general it certainly doesn't apply to all teachers everywhere.

 

[Smitty]

I know I dated a girl who went to school to be a teacher, has graduated, and is one of the ones who does have a job. She wasn't very smart at all but she went to an easy college that handed out A's like they were going out of style.

Almost universally my experience in the people who have become teachers that I know in the last, oh, decade or so.

 

[Clay_Allison]

I'm from Iowa, so when I talk about salaries I am talking about salaries of teachers there. I live in Missouri and I honestly don't know what teachers make here but I know there are a shit ton of teachers and not a lot of jobs. I know I dated a girl who went to school to be a teacher, has graduated, and is one of the ones who does have a job. She wasn't very smart at all but she went to an easy college that handed out A's like they were going out of style. Based on these facts the only conclusion I can come to is that teachers are over paid in Missouri and I don't need to know what their actual salary is in order to come to that conclusion. Nationwide their is a surplus of teachers. Now maybe where you live that isn't the case and when I say teachers are overpaid in general it certainly doesn't apply to all teachers everywhere.

There's not much of a surplus here right now, there's plenty. Economic concerns are keeping older teachers in the workforce and creating a sort of retirement iceberg though. We're going to be losing all of the Baby Boomer teachers and administrators in the not too distant future. It'll create a scarcity.

I'm all for private schools, by the way. They may pay a bit less but they put up with way less crap from students and parents.

 

[Plan9Misfit]

I'm from Iowa, so when I talk about salaries I am talking about salaries of teachers there. I live in Missouri and I honestly don't know what teachers make here but I know there are a shit ton of teachers and not a lot of jobs. I know I dated a girl who went to school to be a teacher, has graduated, and is one of the ones who does have a job. She wasn't very smart at all but she went to an easy college that handed out A's like they were going out of style. Based on these facts the only conclusion I can come to is that teachers are over paid in Missouri and I don't need to know what their actual salary is in order to come to that conclusion. Nationwide their is a surplus of teachers. Now maybe where you live that isn't the case and when I say teachers are overpaid in general it certainly doesn't apply to all teachers everywhere.

That's a failure in the State requirements to become a teacher, then. So it's up to the State to make the requirements stricter to force the need for more qualified candidates with better credentials. This tactic alone would raise teacher salaries along with improving the quality of the education. But, if the State legislature is too stupid to place any emphasis on the importance of education (an unforunate and common problem with conservative States), then the overall labor force erodes, not just the people providing the education.

 

[2233boys]

When I say teachers are overpaid, it's really just a lead into believing in privatized education. Teachers would actually get paid what they deserve in a privatized education system. The abundance of average teachers would get paid less. The exceptional ones would get paid more. You would see far less of these lower talent teachers because they wouldn't get hired. The reason they wouldn't get hired is because the people who do the hiring would know that their success or failure is based on the quality of their teachers.

You ever talk to a teacher at a private school?

 

[Smitty]

When I say teachers are overpaid, it's really just a lead into believing in privatized education. Teachers would actually get paid what they deserve in a privatized education system. The abundance of average teachers would get paid less. The exceptional ones would get paid more. You would see far less of these lower talent teachers because they wouldn't get hired. The reason they wouldn't get hired is because the people who do the hiring would know that their success or failure is based on the quality of their teachers.

Such ignorance, such hate.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

You ever talk to a teacher at a private school?

I have.

That's not the point though. Education isn't currently privatized. So private schools as you know them now are not what private schools would be if the whole industry was privatized.

 

[boozeman]

F the teachers, man.

 

[2233boys]

I have.

That's not the point though. Education isn't currently privatized. So private schools as you know them now are not what private schools would be if the whole industry was privatized.

You sure? How much are those "private schools" going to pay in Detroit, or other impoverished areas. What Kind of teachers will those schools get and what kind of education are those kids going to receive?

 

[Clay_Allison]

You sure? How much are those "private schools" going to pay in Detroit, or other impoverished areas. What Kind of teachers will those schools get and what kind of education are those kids going to receive?

Well, to be fair, Detroit's adult population has a reading level lower than most prisons. So, I'd say that their education couldn't get worse.

 

[2233boys]

Well, to be fair, Detroit's adult population has a reading level lower than most prisons. So, I'd say that their education couldn't get worse.

It certainly won't get any better but forget about Detroit. It isn't the only poor area or city in the country that would fail miserably to educate their populations with the system Crock and Smitty are advocating.

 

[Smitty]

You sure? How much are those "private schools" going to pay in Detroit

Let's just get this out of the way..... Detroit should be bulldozed into the ground and all its residents forcibly relocated in even distribution to other cities so as not to pollute the populations.

Maybe the problem in Detroit is the people who live there and not the "system."

 

[Cowboysrock55]

You sure? How much are those "private schools" going to pay in Detroit, or other impoverished areas. What Kind of teachers will those schools get and what kind of education are those kids going to receive?

What kind of teachers do they get now? If they do have decent teachers now it obviously isn't showing up in the results. I can't imagine the teaching situation would get any worse then a city that just filed bankruptcy.

 

[Smitty]

It certainly won't get any better.

It's rock bottom, so I don't know how you can make that assertion.

"Public education in Detroit led them to be as uneducated as they could possibly be."

"Well, it'd be worse if it was privatized."

How does that make any sense? It can't get worse than THE worst.

The last refuge of liberalism is to always insist that privatizing would make things worse even in the face of incontrovertible evidence that the public sphere has been an abject failure.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Let's just get this out of the way..... Detroit should be bulldozed into the ground and all its residents forcibly relocated in even distribution to other cities so as not to pollute the populations.

You know what I would do if I lived in Detroit? I would move somewhere else. If you still live in Detroit you deserve the misery you choose to live in.

 

[Smitty]

You know what I would do if I lived in Detroit? I would move somewhere else. If you still live in Detroit you deserve the misery you choose to live in.

But what about the children, C-rock?

They don't have government provided teachers! How are they gonna do better than working at McDonalds without public education!

 

[fortsbest]

The good teachers are the ones that do it because they are passionate about it. However, teaching salaries suck. Especially for all the extra work you have to do to be a good one.

I'd be all for higher teaching salaries, more stringent hiring practices and higher levels of education being required. I guess if that means "throwing more money at it", so be it.

As far as the nonsense about the leftist indoctrination or whatever......that goes both ways. I sure as shit don't want my kid going to a school where they are banning the teaching of theory of evolution.

I agree, but what I wouldn't want is the teaching of evolution as the sole source of all life on earth and precluding religious beliefs because they really don't.

Good call. These are the best teachers.

Congrats to your wife Plan.

If shittiness of your job determined how much you should make, garbage men would be millionaires. With the standards where they currently are to be a teacher they absolutely are over paid. If they were truly under paid, like people love to spew out, there would be a severe shortage of teachers and there isn't.

Either raise the standards to become a teacher or lower the pay. Currently the profession is being over paid. I realize this isn't what media and teachers have taught us we should believe but it's the truth.

I agree with some of this also. The cops you read about doing crappy stuff and still having a job are the ones that taint all of us in some people's eyes and it's the same for educators like this dumb ass the article is about. We have great teachers but there are also jack wads like this one or the morons that trashed the WI state capitol building and those are the ones that get the press and area definitely overpaid because they shouldn't even be allowed near our kids.

 

[2233boys]

What kind of teachers do they get now? If they do have decent teachers now it obviously isn't showing up in the results. I can't imagine the teaching situation would get any worse than a city that just filed bankruptcy.

You still didn't answer how they were going to pay those teachers, better yet in a privatized education system, how are poor people going to pay for it. I didn't just address Detroit I said all impoverished areas. How does your system work there?

It's rock bottom, so I don't know how you can make that assertion.

"Public education in Detroit led them to be as uneducated as they could possibly be."

"Well, it'd be worse if it was privatized."

How does that make any sense? It can't get worse than THE worst.

The last refuge of liberalism is to always insist that privatizing would make things worse even in the face of incontrovertible evidence that the public sphere has been an abject failure.

I just saw a list of the top 100 worst rated public schools in the country none were in Detroit, in fact none were in Michigan. Another list had one school in Michigan in the top 25. There are in 4 Philly, I think 7 total in PA on that list. Both lists had a number of schools from Wisconsin and South Carolina on them.

Privatizing education would make it better how? Put more financial restraints on people who are already having a hard time? I also mentioned other impoverished areas, not just Detroit. Same question goes to you as it did CRock, how does your system help them? How are you going to attract teachers to those areas? You'd have to pay more, and how are you going to pay more in an area that is impoverished. I can't see how you would think it would get better. You wouldn't attract better teachers, you'd attract teachers who couldn't get hired at better schools, because they weren't qualified enough or weren't good enough. You'd have the same problem without anyway to fix it.
The problem with education system today, is that parents don't care and aren't involved and the other problem is tenure. The other problem is we teach to tests instead of curriculum. We hold back better students to not allow the slower students to feel out of place.

I am not the poster who falls back into an ideological rhetoric in every single debate so don't throw that liberalism bs at me.

You know what I would do if I lived in Detroit? I would move somewhere else. If you still live in Detroit you deserve the misery you choose to live in.

Yeah because being poor gives you so many options.

But what about the children, C-rock?

They don't have government provided teachers! How are they gonna do better than working at McDonalds without public education!

 

[E_D_Guapo]

I've had the whole "opinion-or-fact" debate with Ghengis Khan recently; suffice to say, I don't just say "This is the truth, you are wrong."

I might believe it's a fact, but I never just state conclusions. My points always get support, usually more than people prefer to read.

That wasn't meant to be a shot at you. Just saying that there are some things that are presented as fact when the reality is that it's only opinion or belief.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Yeah because being poor gives you so many options.

You're right, poor people are totally incapable of doing anything for themselves. We need to give them money and lots of aid. That always gets them motivated to do something...