Cowboys Trade For George Pickens

[Smitty]

I think it's risky and could blow up. And for that reason I don't love giving up a third.

But I'm definitely intrigued if not excited. This is an Amari Cooper level acquisition and makes the team potentially significantly better.

I think Cooper was better. But also have to remember that when Cooper was brought in, there was no WR1 at all. It was Gallup, a WR 2/3, and a bunch of scrubs.

We already have prime WR1 Lamb right now.

 

[NoDak]

They think they have an elite QB and are doing things that teams do when they think they have an elite QB.

It is funny, kinda, if you hate yourself.

Dak is not nearly as bad as people like to portray him as. Is he overpaid? Absolutely. But people talk like he's complete shit. Like, you are either best of the best elite, or absolute garbage. No where in between if you're a Cowboys QB. While he's not one of the best in the NFL, he's far from being as horrible as claimed. If he played anywhere other than Dallas, he wouldn't take a fraction of the heat that he does.

 

[NoDak]

I don't believe this. The NFL has proven time and time again that it will give the most despicable shitbags a chance if they have the talent to make it worth it.

Pickens isn't nearly as bad as some of the characters we've seen that have been given chance after chance across the league. And he does have the talent to take the risk.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I think Cooper was better. But also have to remember that when Cooper was brought in, there was no WR1 at all. It was Gallup, a WR 2/3, and a bunch of scrubs.

We already have prime WR1 Lamb right now.

Gallup was a rookie back when we brought in Cooper. He was never a lead WR. And that year he wasn't even ready to be a good #2 yet.

I think you're overlooking our elite #1 RB behind a very talented Oline... Don't abandon your UNC homerism now. And Blue is the most explosive RB we have had in a long time.

We even have a sort of exciting young backup QB this year. Way more exciting than Cooper Rush has ever been in his life.

 

[Smitty]

Gallup was a rookie back when we brought in Cooper. He was never a lead WR. And that year he wasn't even ready to be a good #2 yet.

I think that’s my point. We were adding a 1 to a group that had nothing back then.

Now we’re adding a 1-ish type to a group that has a 1 already.

 

[Simpleton]

Things change in a big hurry. The eagles looked like they were going down the drain two seasons ago and then one offseason later they did something or other.

Two seasons ago is fairly irrelevant.

That said, I think we should be pretty decent, maybe even classically decent this year. I think the defense is a big question mark and I'm still a little uneasy about the RBs, but I don't think we'll suck barring injury.

Yea but that Eagles situation kind of makes the point I was trying to make.

They made the SB, then took a pretty sizable step back in 2023, retooled a bit going into 2024 and obviously made a huge jump. I think Fangio was a massive part of that, plus Barkley having what will be the best season of his career, but my overall point was the team largely floundered last year because the organization literally did nothing going into 2024 to bolster the roster, and that I don't think it would take years to get back to a 2023 caliber team.

They've added a number of decent external vets, had a great draft, and now added a high risk, high reward guy at one of their biggest positions of need. It won't all work out of course, but my point is that I think we're closer to 12 win territory like in 2023 than 7.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

It all depends on how Dak plays. Is he the guy from 2023 or the guy we saw last year before he got hurt? If last year was an anomaly we should be fine (although I still don't like our defense).

But it was almost half the year, not just a few games, that he wasn't very good. And now he's coming off a pretty major injury.

 

[Simpleton]

It all depends on how Dak plays. Is he the guy from 2023 or the guy we saw last year before he got hurt? If last year was an anomaly we should be fine (although I still don't like our defense).

But it was almost half the year, not just a few games, that he wasn't very good. And now he's coming off a pretty major injury.

Given his history if he's healthy the 2023 version is definitely closer to what he really is.

Maybe he's physically declined irreversibly since then, but if not it's pretty clear that last year was just a dysfunctional mess all the way around from the weird McCarthy shit, no attempts to improve in the offseason, casually starting 2 rookies on the OL along with Martin falling off a cliff, the rash of defensive injuries and Zimmer struggling to transition to his scheme, so on and so forth.

 

[Genghis Khan]

And Blue is the most explosive RB we have had in a long time.

This is one of the places I'd tap the brakes.

I like Blue's talent but you never know what will and won't translate to the pros. I liked Deuce's explosiveness coming out also and it hasn't translated at all (yes, his size is a hindrance but we saw Sproles make it work. The most damning thing about Deuce is he doesn't look explosive at all even though he did in college).

And that's not to mention Blue's hands - not just the fumbles but also he dropped a bunch of wide open passes that he should have caught.

I like the pick but I'm more in "wait and see" mode with him than "anointing" mode.

I'm hopeful but I'm not ready to assume anything yet.

 

[Genghis Khan]

It all depends on how Dak plays. Is he the guy from 2023 or the guy we saw last year before he got hurt? If last year was an anomaly we should be fine (although I still don't like our defense).

But it was almost half the year, not just a few games, that he wasn't very good. And now he's coming off a pretty major injury.

I honestly think dak's problem last year was a severe lack of weapons. I don't think he can elevate mediocre guys but I do believe he can take advantage of guys who have ability. Getting Pickens and a couple of competent RBs should make a big difference.

 

[Genghis Khan]

casually starting 2 rookies on the OL along with Martin falling off a cliff,

This was also a very big and underrated issue.

 

[Smitty]

Yeah, I'm not writing off Blue. I'm hopeful as well. He looks to have talent and to have been a relative value in the fifth.

But he's a fifth.

The fourth round kinda seems to be the Mendoza line for good RBs. That position seems to have evolved into being best value OUTSIDE the first, but also before the fifth.

DraftHistory.com

www.drafthistory.com

I guess Kyren Williams is a stud, 5th round in 2022.

But other than that you're looking at, who, Khalil Herbert as your best outcome?

I think if you get a 700 yard back out of Blue in a platoon with Javonte Williams that's a best case scenario.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

(although I still don't like our defense).

What scares you most about the defense?

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Yeah, I'm not writing off Blue. I'm hopeful as well. He looks to have talent and to have been a relative value in the fifth.

But he's a fifth.

The fourth round kinda seems to be the Mendoza line for good RBs. That position seems to have evolved into being best value OUTSIDE the first, but also before the fifth.

DraftHistory.com

www.drafthistory.com

In an average RB class I would agree about the fourth. But I'm not going to judge Blue because he went in the fifth instead of the fourth in the deepest RB class I have seen in over a decade. I'm not talking first round talent, I'm talking RB1-25 of a draft.

 

[Smitty]

I honestly think dak's problem last year was a severe lack of weapons. I don't think he can elevate mediocre guys but I do believe he can take advantage of guys who have ability. Getting Pickens and a couple of competent RBs should make a big difference.

I'm no Dak fan and I think it's an indictment of him that to reach a level you can define as "relatively successful," he has needed tons of weapons and a great OL, but.... when he's had this level of WR talent he's been classically decent.

And yes last year was one of the worst collections of skill talent I've seen on this team ever.

 

[Smitty]

I have to reiterate how nice it would have been to draft Tyler Warren and then maybe have flipped Ferguson or Schoonmaker for a guard, or a pick to select a guard.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I like Blue's talent but you never know what will and won't translate to the pros. I liked Deuce's explosiveness coming out also and it hasn't translated at all (yes, his size is a hindrance but we saw Sproles make it work. The most damning thing about Deuce is he doesn't look explosive at all even though he did in college).

I think Vaughns explosiveness was overrated. He looks much faster than he is because of his tiny body. But the truth is he is a 4.56 guy in a tiny body. I think you can be small and really fast. You can be big and run a 4.56. But if you're both small and run kind of slow it's a concern.

And let's face it Deuce isn't just small, he is comically small. 5'5" 179 pounds is below any sort of minimum standards one could come up with. At that size he would have to be a massive outlier at RB. It was a roll of the dice on basically something you've never seen work in the modern NFL.

I'll agree with you on Blue to this extent though. I really don't question his ability to run. He isn't just fast, he might be the fastest RB in this draft class. Size wise he isn't big but he is in that Gibbs type size range. My concern with Blue is the fumbles and that is 100 percent a legitimate concern. If you can't hold on to the football as a RB you almost might as well not exist. Because what you do for the offense can be completely wiped out by a fumble here or there. You're going to get some INTs in a game, what you can't afford is additional turnovers by a guy touching the ball 15 times in the game. Just not acceptable. I'd sacrifice big plays from my RB any day if it meant I didn't have to hold my breath for a turnover every time the guy touches the ball.

I do think fumbles are correctable with RBs. But it's a killer bad quality to have if you can't fix it.

My real hope is that we built this O-line and brought in the right coaches so that even guys like Mafah and Jevonte Williams can be really good players. I think they are capable RBs that can be productive with the right situation around them. Which is sort of how I've always viewed RB. You just can't have a massive turd like Zeke was last year filling that spot.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

What scares you most about the defense?

Most of it? Last year we were tied fourth worst in the league in yards/play and were second worst in points allowed. They looked better in the middle of the year when guys played more disciplined, but that was also against some bad teams like the Giants and Panthers.

And I don't see how we upgraded that much. Eze should be a good situational rusher but we still can't stop the run at all unless we hit the lotto on a 7th round NT.. I love Revel's potential, but how fast can he be ready, and there's a great chance he's just replacing Diggs, who may never be the same. Our safeties aren't getting any younger.

I guess the best hope is that we get big leads and teams have to play from behind like in the Quinn years. But that's a lot to ask week in and week out, and doesn't work as well against better teams.

 

[Simpleton]

Most of it? Last year we were tied fourth worst in the league in yards/play and were second worst in points allowed. They looked better in the middle of the year when guys played more disciplined, but that was also against some bad teams like the Giants and Panthers.

And I don't see how we upgraded that much. Eze should be a good situational rusher but we still can't stop the run at all unless we hit the lotto on a 7th round NT.. I love Revel's potential, but how fast can he be ready, and there's a great chance he's just replacing Diggs, who may never be the same. Our safeties aren't getting any younger.

I guess the best hope is that we get big leads and teams have to play from behind like in the Quinn years. But that's a lot to ask week in and week out, and doesn't work as well against better teams.

They played well against some of the better offenses in the league in the Bengals and even the Eagles in the first game, not to mention the Skins, although I don't truly believe they were an elite offense. But no defense is going to hold on when you have a completely incompetent offense (first Eagles game).

The defense is being way underrated because of how bad they were over the first 5-6 games, which I believe was an outlier for a number of reasons.

I expect them to be at least middle of the pack, with the potential to be top 8-10ish.

It would take a lot going wrong for them to be one of the worst in the league.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Here is my view on Dak. With an elite run game he can get by with somewhat lesser weapons to throw to. He can also get by with a lesser run game if he has some legit weapons to throw the ball to. But what he can't do is get by with no run game. Zeke running out there for the first 7 or 8 games of the season was an absolute joke. Ferguson was in and out with injuries. Cooks was out with his injury.

In terms of passing Dak had Lamb and that was it. Sure he struggled with Tolbert, Turpin, Brooks and whoever else to throw the ball to after that. It's why I was so massively concerned when the we were basically running back that crew at WR.