Week 1 Game Day Chatter | Giants vs Cowboys | 9-10-2017

[Cotton]

I don't think for a second that he did for selfish reasons, but again, just as we should have done more with Romo, our staff needs to know when the situation calls for them to instruct their QB to simply run the play that is called.

Holmgren, Parcells, Walsh, Jimmy Johnson, etc. were all HC's who had HOF QBs but did not hesitate to instruct them when they shouldn't change a play.

Our staff needs to have a better understanding of this because a QB is always naturally going to choose the pass over the run if you leave it up to him.

I can't disagree there. It's definitely something you don't want to get out of hand. That's what frustrated me with Romo so much, is they basically gave him a free hall pass. They should make sure that doesn't happen with Dak. But, he should be given some flexibility to audible depending on what the defense shows.

 

[NoDak]

All I'm asking is, what's with the completely different narrative now? Originally, people were screaming that the coaches were stupid to be calling pass plays on the goal line when we have this Oline and this RB at our disposal. Now, when it's revealed that they did in fact call run plays, but Dak audibled out them thats somehow forgotten, and we justify Dak's decision to do it?

Oh, and I sincerely doubt anybody has said anything about Dak trying to put the spotlight on himself. I certainly didn't. Not sure where that came from. I'm only talking about people blaming the coaches for going pass happy on the goal line, when this clearly shows they didn't.

 

[Texas Ace]

All I'm asking is, what's with the completely different narrative now? Originally, people were screaming that the coaches were stupid to be calling pass plays on the goal line when we have this Oline and this RB at our disposal. Now, when it's revealed that they did in fact call run plays, but Dak audibled out them thats somehow forgotten, and we justify Dak's decision to do it?

I think it still falls on the coaches to some degree, but the QBs are certainly not blameless in any way.

My stance on this has been consistent going back to when Romo was QB. The coaches have to know when they need to instruct their QB on when to stick with the play called. I'm frustrated when the coaches don't stick with the run when they should and while I also got and get frustrated with Romo and Dak, I understand that a QB is almost always going to lean towards the pass if you leave it up to him. That's why it is the staff's job to intervene when necessary.

Romo audibled a number of times out of a run into a pass only to see it end unsuccessfully or even with a turnover. The one that I recall most recently that had even Garrett throwing him under the bus for was when he did it at the end of the 2013 collapse to Green Bay.

Ultimately, it comes back to the coaches. If they really have an intent to run the ball, then nothing is going to stand in the way of that. If we're passing more than we're running, or ignoring the run when we shouldn't in certain situations, then it's because the staff has created an offensive environment that allows that to happen.

 

[NoDak]

I think it still falls on the coaches to some degree, but the QBs are certainly not blameless in any way.

My stance on this has been consistent going back to when Romo was QB. The coaches have to know when they need to instruct their QB on when to stick with the play called. I'm frustrated when the coaches don't stick with the run when they should and while I also got and get frustrated with Romo and Dak, I understand that a QB is almost always going to lean towards the pass if you leave it up to him. That's why it is the staff's job to intervene when necessary.

Romo audibled a number of times out of run into a pass only to see it end unsuccessfully or even with a turnover. The one that I recall most recently that had even Garrett throwing him under the bus for was when he did at the end of the 2013 collapse to Green Bay.

Ultimately, it comes back to the coaches. If they really have an intent to run the ball, then nothing is going to stand in the way of that. If we're passing more than we're running, or ignoring the run when we shouldn't in certain situations, then it's because the staff has created an offensive environment that allows that to happen.

That's nice, in hindsight. But I noticed you left this part out...

I'm only talking about people blaming the coaches for going pass happy on the goal line, when this clearly shows they didn't.

If memory serves, you were one of the loudest screaming about how stupid the coaches were for going pass happy on the goal line.

Wouldn't it just be easier to admit you were wrong blaming the COACHES for abandoning the run on the the goal line, rather than come up with all of these justifications for it?

 

[Genghis Khan]

All I'm asking is, what's with the completely different narrative now? Originally, people were screaming that the coaches were stupid to be calling pass plays on the goal line when we have this Oline and this RB at our disposal. Now, when it's revealed that they did in fact call run plays, but Dak audibled out them thats somehow forgotten, and we justify Dak's decision to do it?

Oh, and I sincerely doubt anybody has said anything about Dak trying to put the spotlight on himself. I certainly didn't. Not sure where that came from. I'm only talking about people blaming the coaches for going pass happy on the goal line, when this clearly shows they didn't.

Dumb either way. Bad decisions by Dak.

 

[Texas Ace]

That's nice, in hindsight. But I noticed you left this part out...



If memory serves, you were one of the loudest screaming about how stupid the coaches were for going pass happy on the goal line.

Wouldn't it just be easier to admit you were wrong blaming the COACHES for abandoning the run on the the goal line, rather than come up with all of these justifications for it?

Sure, I'll blame Dak and not I'm not trying to justify anything. I used to get pissed at Romo for doing the same thing and in fact, if you go through the gameday thread (I think that's the one), you'll find that one of the things that worried me about what I saw that night was how we seemed to be handing the reigns of the Romo offense over to Dak and that was something I didn't want.

What made our offense so efficient last year was that Dak mostly ran what was called and did a great job not trying to do too much. Yes, he should be given more leeway now that he is more experienced, but I don't want a like-for-like repeat of what we used to see with Romo in regards to changing plays or else we'll get more sequences like the one we saw vs the Giants where we didn't run once from the 3 yard line.

Maybe that sequence doesn't directly fall on the coaches heads, but still, if they really are adamant about wanting to run the ball then they need to instruct their QB to do so.

If you go back to my posts about this very same thing when Romo was QB, you'll find that I have always been consistent with my stance on this issue.

 

[Angrymesscan]

All I'm asking is, what's with the completely different narrative now? Originally, people were screaming that the coaches were stupid to be calling pass plays on the goal line when we have this Oline and this RB at our disposal. Now, when it's revealed that they did in fact call run plays, but Dak audibled out them thats somehow forgotten, and we justify Dak's decision to do it?

Oh, and I sincerely doubt anybody has said anything about Dak trying to put the spotlight on himself. I certainly didn't. Not sure where that came from. I'm only talking about people blaming the coaches for going pass happy on the goal line, when this clearly shows they didn't.

Run was the correct playcall, the coaches did this, but we didn't know it at the time. That is why I at least was pissed off at them. Now that I know they made the right call I have nothing bad to say about that series regarding the coaches. I also understand giving the pass option to the QB, but I think Dak is going a little overboard with the whole "Dez is open if he's in single coverage" thing. I'd sit his ass down and tell him, unless they have 9+ guys in the box when we call a run inside the 5yd line, RUN the goddamn ball, don't give a shit if Dez is in single coverage, just run it.
With this info I think part of the reason he overthrew Dez so bad on the slant is he was making up for not running it on first down, so he was to amped.

 

[Texas Ace]

I'd sit his ass down and tell him, unless they have 9+ guys in the box when we call a run inside the 5yd line, RUN the goddamn ball, don't give a shit if Dez is in single coverage, just run it.

Exactly.

If Holmgren can do that with Favre, there's no reason why we can't do it with Dak.

 

[NoDak]

Run was the correct playcall, the coaches did this, but we didn't know it at the time. That is why I at least was pissed off at them. Now that I know they made the right call I have nothing bad to say about that series regarding the coaches.

Thank you. That's all I was talking about. Nice to see somebody not afraid to admit it instead of typing out small novella justifications. Hard to concede anything when it comes to Garrett after you've dug in, I guess.

 

[Cotton]

Thank you. That's all I was talking about. Nice to see somebody not afraid to admit it instead of typing out small novella justifications. Hard to concede anything when it comes to Garrett after you've dug in, I guess.

I already said that.

But, with this new information, it's not on the coaches, it's on Dak.

 

[NoDak]

Dude,

To be fair, do people really pay attention to most things you say?

 

[Cotton]

To be fair, do people really pay attention to most things you say?

Apparently, not.

 

[Smitty]

Well, that's a whole lot different than "TEH F'N COACHES ARE TOO PASS HAPPY!! WHY DIDN'T WE RUN THERE!!?!?!!!?!"

That seemed to be the prevailing thought following that series of downs.

Yup. Someone even posted all the board's reactions.

 

[Smitty]

And that's what I'm afraid of.

To be clear, I think he does deserve more leeway with how he runs the offense, but just as it was a problem with Romo at times, it will be a problem with Dak as well if they don't learn to tell their QB in certain situations that they simply need to run the play that is called.

If he wants to change the play on 1st or 2nd down, I'm ok with that. But we should not have passed on BOTH downs.

Gotta mix in a run in there somewhere.

Yeah, I don't agree again.

Obviously you have to trust your QB to see if the defense is lining up run heavy, and if they are, to switch to pass. Or vice versa.

And guess what, the decision worked, he had a wide open Bryant.

He just misfired on the pass.

I don't think you "have to" mix in a run. It helps. You want to tend to go that way. And by and large we do.

 

[Smitty]

All I'm asking is, what's with the completely different narrative now? Originally, people were screaming that the coaches were stupid to be calling pass plays on the goal line when we have this Oline and this RB at our disposal. Now, when it's revealed that they did in fact call run plays, but Dak audibled out them thats somehow forgotten, and we justify Dak's decision to do it?

Oh, and I sincerely doubt anybody has said anything about Dak trying to put the spotlight on himself. I certainly didn't. Not sure where that came from. I'm only talking about people blaming the coaches for going pass happy on the goal line, when this clearly shows they didn't.

Dak is trustworthy. Garrett is not.

Translation: Fuck Garrett. We don't give him any credit for coaching up the players. If we start admitting player faults, we might have to admit he knows what he's doing a little.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I don't think it excuses the coaches at all. They're the ones who have put in the system that allows the QB to count the box or whatever to kill to a pass play. This constant "take what the defense gives you" is exactly how we had so many incredibly lopsided pass/run ratios in the Romo era.

The only way it's not on the coaches is if the QB is some rogue element who blatantly disregards his instruction, and I don't believe that's Dak at all.

 

[Simpleton]

Fairly certain that Hyde INT in the playoffs was also an RPO where Prescott thought he had Beasley for an easy 5+ yards.

 

[Smitty]

If we ran into the teeth of a defense at all costs and were stopped for no gain, people would be saying why don't we allow the QB to audible out?

It's nonsense. You have to let the QB audible out. He has to have good judgment.

 

[boozeman]

I don't think it excuses the coaches at all. They're the ones who have put in the system that allows the QB to count the box or whatever to kill to a pass play. This constant "take what the defense gives you" is exactly how we had so many incredibly lopsided pass/run ratios in the Romo era.

The only way it's not on the coaches is if the QB is some rogue element who blatantly disregards his instruction, and I don't believe that's Dak at all.

That and no offense to Prescott he might not be equipped to do that this early in his career. He did not seem to do it a lot last year, especially in goal to go situations.

 

[Genghis Khan]

If we ran into the teeth of a defense at all costs and were stopped for no gain, people would be saying why don't we allow the QB to audible out?

It's nonsense. You have to let the QB audible out. He has to have good judgment.

Absolutely you have to let the QB audible out if he sees fit.

His judgment was poor however.