Sturm's Morning After - Cowboys Defense Can't Stop Rodgers Late

[L.T. Fan]

Yeah this team is going to have to scratch and claw to get into the playoffs. Our schedule is absurd. I agree I would much rather have the win. We're not going to escape our defensive issues and they need to coach around them.

I just think all the piling on is a little bit of bullshit. It ignores that the team was trying to burn the clock. They just got to the 11 yard line and decided it was time to stop dicking around and score. I really wish we would have burned more time but I would have been much more angry had we not scored at all.

I hear what you are saying but I think my angst lies with the question of which option would likely have been more successful for Dallas: Put the responsibility to win on the offense or defense. It seems to me that the Offense would have had more control of the outcome if they had stopped short of scoring too soon. They likely could have burned the clock and still scored. The defenses ability to hold the Packers down is a known factor. They could not so why allow that option to rely on.

 

[Smitty]

Just forcing them to call that last time out alone would have been a huge deal. Because it's much easier to play defense when you know the other team's offense basically can't run the ball.

There's no guarantee that running the ball on second down would have led them to use that timeout. Prescott took it in from 11 the very next down. Am I to believe that it wouldn't have scored had it been called a down earlier instead of the pass? Or are you saying we shouldn't have called the RPO either, but should have just tried to get 3 yards, so we would have had a first and goal from the 8?

People's problem here is that they think we should have been deliberately playing to not score and use up more time.

There is logic in that, but at the same time, you have to take the TD and count on your D not to suck.

Would have loved if we could have ran for 3, picked up the first down, and then run it into the endzone with 12 seconds left on a subsequent play. But there's no guarantee that happens.

People are acting like we had the ability to run out the clock and for sure take the lead but we chose not to. That's not the situation we were facing. We were at the 11 yard line.

You need to score.

 

[Rev]

There's no guarantee that running the ball on second down would have led them to use that timeout. Prescott took it in from 11 the very next down. Am I to believe that it wouldn't have scored had it been called a down earlier instead of the pass? Or are you saying we shouldn't have called the RPO either, but should have just tried to get 3 yards, so we would have had a first and goal from the 8?

People's problem here is that they think we should have been deliberately playing to not score and use up more time.

There is logic in that, but at the same time, you have to take the TD and count on your D not to suck.

Would have loved if we could have ran for 3, picked up the first down, and then run it into the endzone with 12 seconds left on a subsequent play. But there's no guarantee that happens.

People are acting like we had the ability to run out the clock and for sure take the lead but we chose not to. That's not the situation we were facing. We were at the 11 yard line.

You need to score.

It just comes down to who you have more faith in. I have no faith at all in the defense because it's been proven to fail. Go down with your best unit and even if it fails at least you give yourself a chance. I'm not buying into all of the typical coachspeak and textbook situations. We all know what we have in Dallas and we all knew what was going to happen when you give Rodgers that much time against our defense.

 

[Smitty]

I would have liked to have been able to leave less time. That's why I'm leaving open the idea that you can complain about the pass as a bad idea in theory.

But the way things played out, there's no proof it cost us, and I can't advocate telling my players to not score. I'm not even sure I can advocate deliberately calling plays to get me first and goal at the 8 or 7. You have no idea if you can score from there.

And telling Dak to pull up at the one also seems far fetched.

I just don't think there was a ton of realistic options. Obviously you can say calling the pass was a bad idea in theory, but once the next play succeeded in an 11 yard touchdown RUN (which also was a converted first and goal if he had been anything over 3 yards), you have to think that play very well could have worked on second down too. And so you are left with the option of saying, they should have been deliberately trying to not score. Shouldn't have called the RPO either -- that they should have called a dive up the middle for three yards and a first down only.

I can't really pin that on the coaches. You have to let your players try to score.

What you have to do is assume your defense can prevent a TD drive in under 1:30.

 

[Rev]

That's all textbook coacbing and that should work against most teams. If we were playing any of them there wouldnt be this kind of debate other than our defense sucks. Well you do still have that but you get the added bonus of other considerations. Against Rodgers with what he has done against Dallas and Marinelli defenses in the past you have to play to win and not to just not lose. Take advantage of a situation that is supposedly your strong suit and was getting better in the second half. Start by not calling that pass and run the ball. See where that leads you.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Yeah this team is going to have to scratch and claw to get into the playoffs.

We definitely have the right coach then.

 

[boozeman]

We definitely have the right coach then.

Stacking and battling. Every day.

 

[BipolarFuk]

Stacking and battling. Every day.

 

[Angrymesscan]

The problem is that pass was the wrong call, regardless if we scored on the next play, you keep grinding and eating up the clock. You want to score, but you also want to eat up as much clock as possible, you have a 2nd and 3 at their 11, 2 time-outs and 1:30 on the clock, you are in no hurry at all to score, a pass to the endzone has 5 possible outcomes, 4 of which are from bad (sack, incompletion) to terrible (int, strip sack) and one good but not ideal (quick TD), a run has also 5 possible outcomes one terrible (fumble), two bad, but not as bad (loss of yards, not enough for a 1st down) and two good ones (1st down, quick TD). It's football 101...

 

[Genghis Khan]

Yeah this team is going to have to scratch and claw to get into the playoffs. Our schedule is absurd. I agree I would much rather have the win. We're not going to escape our defensive issues and they need to coach around them.

I just think all the piling on is a little bit of bullshit. It ignores that the team was trying to burn the clock. They just got to the 11 yard line and decided it was time to stop dicking around and score. I really wish we would have burned more time but I would have been much more angry had we not scored at all.

They absolutely should not have been trying to burn the clock when that drive began. They got the ball with about 9 minutes left and down 4. It would have been absurd to purposely burn the clock at that point and put all their eggs in the basket of that one drive. Fortunately I don't think they were trying to do that (although they had a distinct lack of urgency on that drive so who knows).

But once the 2 minute warning hit (give or take), their strategy needed to change.

 

[Genghis Khan]

There's no guarantee that running the ball on second down would have led them to use that timeout. Prescott took it in from 11 the very next down. Am I to believe that it wouldn't have scored had it been called a down earlier instead of the pass? Or are you saying we shouldn't have called the RPO either, but should have just tried to get 3 yards, so we would have had a first and goal from the 8?

People's problem here is that they think we should have been deliberately playing to not score and use up more time.

There is logic in that, but at the same time, you have to take the TD and count on your D not to suck.

Would have loved if we could have ran for 3, picked up the first down, and then run it into the endzone with 12 seconds left on a subsequent play. But there's no guarantee that happens.

People are acting like we had the ability to run out the clock and for sure take the lead but we chose not to. That's not the situation we were facing. We were at the 11 yard line.

You need to score.

If they don't use their time out, a large chunk of time burns off. It's a win-win for us.

 

[Genghis Khan]

The problem is that pass was the wrong call, regardless if we scored on the next play, you keep grinding and eating up the clock. You want to score, but you also want to eat up as much clock as possible, you have a 2nd and 3 at their 11, 2 time-outs and 1:30 on the clock, you are in no hurry at all to score, a pass to the endzone has 5 possible outcomes, 4 of which are from bad (sack, incompletion) to terrible (int, strip sack) and one good but not ideal (quick TD), a run has also 5 possible outcomes one terrible (fumble), two bad, but not as bad (loss of yards, not enough for a 1st down) and two good ones (1st down, quick TD). It's football 101...

Yep.

 

[GShock]

There's no guarantee that running the ball on second down would have led them to use that timeout. Prescott took it in from 11 the very next down. Am I to believe that it wouldn't have scored had it been called a down earlier instead of the pass?

Here is the second and 1. Elliott would not have scored.

 

[Rev]

Here is the second and 1. Elliott would not have scored.

He doesn't have to score there. We all wanted the cowboys to score. Just wanted them to run the clock down while doing it.

 

[GShock]

He doesn't have to score there. We all wanted the cowboys to score. Just wanted them to run the clock down while doing it.

I know. Just pointing out the answer to Schmitty's question.

 

[GShock]

I am not all hung up on that.

Imagine if we played keep away and won. All we would be talking about today is how uber awesome the D is and how Irving is a monster.

This way, we know this defense is shit. Perhaps we do something about it soon.

The D is shit right now, no question.

I maintain hope that as time passes, it could get better. As our rookie DBs get more experience, Lee gets healthy, Jaylon's reps go down and Taco does...whatever can be done, I think there is a chance they could be low-mediocre instead of horrid. They could even be mediocre at the end of the season, and that would at least give us a fighting chance in any playoff game, and any playoff game would mean more practice reps...

I think we gave away a pretty important W on Sunday.

 

[Smitty]

Here is the second and 1. Elliott would not have scored.

Prescott maybe just keeps it instead of handing to Elliott, and scores on 2nd and 1. How do we know he doesn't? He did on the very next play.

I'm saying you would have had to specifically call a play on 2nd and one DESIGNED to just get the first down and keep the clocks rolling with a first and goal from the 10, 9, 8 yard line, etc.

Once Prescott breaks free on the RPO keeper, he's getting in the endzone. He's not stopping at the 1.

 

[L.T. Fan]

I would have liked to have been able to leave less time. That's why I'm leaving open the idea that you can complain about the pass as a bad idea in theory.

But the way things played out, there's no proof it cost us, and I can't advocate telling my players to not score. I'm not even sure I can advocate deliberately calling plays to get me first and goal at the 8 or 7. You have no idea if you can score from there.

And telling Dak to pull up at the one also seems far fetched.

I just don't think there was a ton of realistic options. Obviously you can say calling the pass was a bad idea in theory, but once the next play succeeded in an 11 yard touchdown RUN (which also was a converted first and goal if he had been anything over 3 yards), you have to think that play very well could have worked on second down too. And so you are left with the option of saying, they should have been deliberately trying to not score. Shouldn't have called the RPO either -- that they should have called a dive up the middle for three yards and a first down only.

I can't really pin that on the coaches. You have to let your players try to score.

What you have to do is assume your defense can prevent a TD drive in under 1:30.

True there is no proof the offense would have scored but there is a high probability they would and erase the clock issue. Thinking the defense could curtail Green Bay and Rogers is a very low probably as a coach you assess the probabilities.

 

[Genghis Khan]

There's no guarantee of anything but you should be doing things that give you a better chance to win.

Trying to win with our running game and controlling the clock gives us a waaaaaaaay better chance than trying to win with our defense.

 

[Smitty]

There's no guarantee of anything but you should be doing things that give you a better chance to win.

Trying to win with our running game and controlling the clock gives us a waaaaaaaay better chance than trying to win with our defense.

Which, again, is why I said I am not disputing that some could argue that the pass wasn't the best idea.

I'm just rejecting that the pass cost us the game. We don't know that.