Sturm: You Do Not Have To Talk Me Into Mike Zimmer

Status
Not open for further replies.

dpf1123

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
2,171
You Do Not Have To Talk Me Into Mike Zimmer
If the Dallas Cowboys want a Defensive Coordinator that will have a plan, this is your guy.

BOB STURM
FEB 5, 2024


The Dallas Cowboys have plenty of work to do.

It is not nearly as much as some claim — that is just people burning off steam. When someone tells you they would rather be 4-13 and rebuild than watch another 12-win season, they are usually just acting out of anger.

Crushing playoff exits hurt and the hopelessness of 10,000 days goes with it after time. But no, you would not rather be a team at the bottom of the heap staring at zero solutions. Heck, the tears in the eyes of Lions fans for finally getting to experience a contender’s playoff heartbreak after decades should tell you which is more preferred to those of sound mind.

Nevertheless, we start Super Bowl week with the easy acknowledgement that Dallas was not close to Las Vegas this year. Despite being a solid odds favorite for most of the season. It didn’t come close to working out and now they must decide which path to take on a number of items.

So, today, I want to offer you some thoughts on a name we all know very well and will interview Tuesday for the defensive coordinator opening. I know people want the latest and newest, but sometimes, the situation calls for a proven guy who understands the situation and solutions.

When Joe Whitt took himself out of the running to join up in Washington (which we assumed was destined to happen the moment they did not immediately promote him) it looked like Dallas was leaning towards a more experienced option.

Ron Rivera and Mike Zimmer are the most notable names that they are looking at externally. Al Harris is the last in-house name that is worth perusing to replace Dan Quinn and Whitt.

I have enormous respect for Rivera’s career and find him to be a wonderful stand-up guy. His defenses in Carolina were not to be messed with, but I do believe trying to sell folks on his Washington defenses of the last few years would be difficult. They had enormous talent up front, but never were able to make it truly a force in the NFC. I would not be very excited there.

But, Zim? I’m down with that idea.

I will tell you that while some might consider Zimmer a typical Jerry-hire as they always return to the 1990’s Cowboys, he would be more than fine for me.
I think Zim is an outstanding defensive coordinator and most negativity about his football coaching résumé should centered on his archaic views on offense and playing the odds of modern football tactics.

He was a very Bill Parcells-like head coach who was successful in other eras. But in today’s game you better be willing to take a few more chances. The Vikings never won enough with him and that included a Jason Garrett-like inability to ever make the playoffs in consecutive years. Perhaps as a head coach, he is a lot like Garrett in that he seems best suited as a coordinator.

But, as a DC, I could get behind this quickly. He is a proven mind who has adapted to change over his career. I recall many Mike McCarthy offense vs Mike Zimmer defense battles that were street fights. In fact, I am not sure how much they actually like each other, because they had a cantankerous vibe between them for many years as Zimmer and his Vikings looked for ways to slow down Aaron Rodgers and the best offense in the NFC North that resided in Green Bay.

Sometimes, he did fine and other times he definitely did not. But, it was always intense and a challenge as his team took the North in 2015 and 2017 from McCarthy and Green Bay. In 2017, they literally took out Rodgers to make that happen with a broken collarbone on a hit from Anthony Barr.

But, know this, McCarthy always regarded the Vikings of that era a very worthy adversary. McCarthy considers Zimmer one of the best defensive minds in the industry. In other words, Jones and McCarthy might both be pulling for this one and that is why I sort of think it is worth writing about.

I am not saying it is a done deal, but it is tough to think they will ultimately arrive at any other conclusion.

The Vikes defense over those years was fantastic. They had a core of players who were all about the same age and were doing some wonderful work together.
The above video has been making the rounds quite a bit recently on Twitter and I thought you should take a look. I believe it is from 2017 and the height of the Vikings powers under Zimmer. He had two excellent linebackers in Anthony Barr and Eric Kendricks who he had secured in the 2014 and 2015 drafts to help run his defense along with trusted veteran safety Harrison Smith (2012).
They used the Double A-Gap blitz look to perfection and sort of took the mantle from the Legion of Boom as the next big NFC defense teams had to reckon with. They had very little quality on the offensive side of the ball, but were built on taking care of the ball and letting the defense win games.
Obviously, that is a tough way to win, but also why a marriage in Dallas is appealing to many of us who remember his defenses well.
Look at the 3-year rankings in the key defensive categories:

As you can see, the only one of the huge metrics that is not “Top 7” over a 3-year trend is takeaways.
There, they are at about league average. That is not great compared to living in the Quinn world from 2021-23, but then again, does Dallas think they were giving up too much? In other words, would you rather be sound in every way defensively and get an average number of turnovers or a high turnover team that cannot get them when the ball is being shoved down their throat and their pass rushers are rendered useless?
I think Dallas is more than fine with a shift in priorities at the moment. This would constitute that for sure.
This requires a new way of looking at things. Zimmer would be that for sure.
In Minnesota, he made a fundamental decision of playing an enormous amount of zone and split-field defenses (ahead of their time, honestly, as this trend really got cooking in the years to follow). But, look at those key downs on 3rd down (1st) and in the red zone (1st), in a division that dealt with McCarthy and Rodgers in prime years.
They knew waiting for Rodgers to give them the ball was a fool’s errand. They had to knock the wheels off the bus to get it to stop rolling and they tried to do that with physical and effective defensive football.
The defense gets tons of pressure, but doesn’t believe in risking the fundamentals. They blitz, but not at an extreme rate. They play man, but also not enough to expose themselves.
This video is from 2018, NFL.com and PFF’s Mike Renner combined to feature the Vikings defense and how they did what they did. It is useful.
This move, I would think, would require a new emphasis on linebackers, corners who like to offer run support, and big space-eaters inside. The interview probably starts with how do you think Micah Parsons is best used?
I have my answers, but they aren’t interviewing me. His answer might decide if he is running this defense in 2024. I would be pretty interested in making that happen.
The defense will look at San Francisco, Buffalo, and Green Bay as red flag events they want to make sure will not happen again next year. Bullied on the ground and pushed around all day. If you isolate those three embarrassing experiences, you can surmise why those making the decisions would like a departure from that to move to a defensive guy who almost never got bullied.
There are a few things that concern me. The idea that he would quickly be the media conclusion of who takes over if Mike McCarthy gets fired midseason is up the list. Also, I do have a bit of an aversion to always thinking Norv Turner, Butch Davis, Dave Campo, and Mike Zimmer will always be the 1990’s solution to a modern problem. But, I can get past it here. I would hire this guy.
I think Mike Zimmer is a perfect idea for this job. I really do.
 

Chocolate Lab

Mere Commoner
Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Messages
20,239
So I guess the plan is to hire Zimmer, then when MM gets fired next (or mid-) year, we hire a Slowik type to "fix" Dak and he has to keep Zimmer?

Sounds great. No way that can fail. :doh
 

Simpleton

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
17,522
So I guess the plan is to hire Zimmer, then when MM gets fired next (or mid-) year, we hire a Slowik type to "fix" Dak and he has to keep Zimmer?

Sounds great. No way that can fail. :doh
If they can't get Belichick this is almost certainly what will happen.
 

Simpleton

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
17,522
I guess no one remembers the GROZ movement.
That was also 20 years ago and since then he's put together elite defenses several times over two different stops. It's not an ideal outcome exactly but I don't think there are many realistic ideal outcomes. The fact that he coached here 20 years ago and is a friend of Jerry seems to be the biggest complaint.

I think he's at least an equivalent defensive mind/DC as Quinn, so why not?
 

bbgun

please don't "dur" me
Joined
Apr 9, 2013
Messages
23,556
I think he's at least an equivalent defensive mind/DC as Quinn, so why not?
I thought the goal was to improve on Quinn. I guess Mike's lame duck status makes that next to impossible. Also, who's sniffing around Zimmer besides us?
 

Simpleton

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
17,522
I thought the goal was to improve on Quinn. I guess Mike's lame duck status makes that next to impossible. Also, who's sniffing around Zimmer besides us?
They would've brought Quinn back if he hadn't gotten a HC job so I don't think that's the goal for them. And Quinn did an objectively very good job here despite how it ended, if he had come back I would've been ok with it (relative to the macro-view of McCarthy being brought back as well), so I'm lukewarm either way.
 

Cowboysrock55

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
52,949
That was also 20 years ago and since then he's put together elite defenses several times over two different stops. It's not an ideal outcome exactly but I don't think there are many realistic ideal outcomes. The fact that he coached here 20 years ago and is a friend of Jerry seems to be the biggest complaint.

I think he's at least an equivalent defensive mind/DC as Quinn, so why not?
I also like the fact that Zimmer is a little bit of a hardass. I think Quinn was very much a players coach and I think that's why things began to slide. I think Zimmer would help to bring some discipline back to the defense.
 

Chocolate Lab

Mere Commoner
Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Messages
20,239
I also like the fact that Zimmer is a little bit of a hardass. I think Quinn was very much a players coach and I think that's why things began to slide. I think Zimmer would help to bring some discipline back to the defense.
I agree with this. Quinn always struck me as a little too one of the boys almost... just look at that embarrassing Washington video.

I just hope everyone is ready for Zimmer as HC in 25.
 

Cowboysrock55

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
52,949
I agree with this. Quinn always struck me as a little too one of the boys almost... just look at that embarrassing Washington video.

I just hope everyone is ready for Zimmer as HC in 25.
Well when we win the Superbowl in 2024 and McCarthy leaves because he isn't under contract and takes Dak with him it will all be bitter sweet.
 

armadillooutlaw

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 23, 2020
Messages
1,405
I thought the goal was to improve on Quinn. I guess Mike's lame duck status makes that next to impossible. Also, who's sniffing around Zimmer besides us?
I dunno about improving. We had legitimate top-5 defenses in both 2021 & 2022 and were able to shut down SF in the playoffs in 22. We got embarrassed against GB obviously, but it can be easily argued that the personnel was a big factor in that.
 

Genghis Khan

The worst version of myself
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
37,845
I thought the goal was to improve on Quinn.

I don't think "improve" on Quinn is the right way to look at it.

I think they - as Sturm points out here - need to keep the games like SF, Buffalo, GB (and I'd throw in Seattle also even though that was a win) from happening.

I guess that is a sort of improvement. But I don't think an overall improvement where if you dig in statistically they come out better on paper than the past three years is necessary. The defense wasn't dogshit under Quinn.

But they need to find someone who doesn't let his defense crater against the top teams like we did this year, and I think Zimmer is as capable of that as anyone currently available.
 

Genghis Khan

The worst version of myself
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
37,845
And Quinn did an objectively very good job here despite how it ended, if he had come back I would've been ok with it (relative to the macro-view of McCarthy being brought back as well),

That's pretty absurd that you are willing to absolve Quinn of his mistakes because he greatly improved the defense overall during his tenure, but won't absolve McCarthy of his mistakes despite improving the team overall since he took over.

I advocate getting rid of both because the end in GB was basically an unforgivable result. But I don't see how you can think it's ok to return one but returning the other is somehow this massive mistake.
 

Bill Shatner

Lock phasers on target
Joined
Mar 17, 2020
Messages
5,356
That's pretty absurd that you are willing to absolve Quinn of his mistakes because he greatly improved the defense overall during his tenure, but won't absolve McCarthy of his mistakes despite improving the team overall since he took over.

I advocate getting rid of both because the end in GB was basically an unforgivable result. But I don't see how you can think it's ok to return one but returning the other is somehow this massive mistake.
Agreed, 4 years was fuckin enough. You can look at the playoff failures. There was no progress other than a win over a pretty mediocre Tampa team with an end of the road Brady. It was time for a reset, but ya know, look at that regular season record. /salesman wink
 

Genghis Khan

The worst version of myself
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
37,845
I also like the fact that Zimmer is a little bit of a hardass. I think Quinn was very much a players coach and I think that's why things began to slide. I think Zimmer would help to bring some discipline back to the defense.

This is a very good point and one that I've been thinking about lately also. Sometimes if a coach is too much player's coach or too much a hard ass the other way it wears out after a while and I do wonder if that was part of what happened.

Zimmer is more of a hard ass so maybe that is something the players need now.
 

Simpleton

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
17,522
That's pretty absurd that you are willing to absolve Quinn of his mistakes because he greatly improved the defense overall during his tenure, but won't absolve McCarthy of his mistakes despite improving the team overall since he took over.

I advocate getting rid of both because the end in GB was basically an unforgivable result. But I don't see how you can think it's ok to return one but returning the other is somehow this massive mistake.
I wanted them both gone but if McCarthy was back I figured you might as well bring Quinn back as well if he didn't get a HC job.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom