President Trump Thread (Part 2)

[Plan9Misfit]

Obama and Biden both literally used executive powers to increase tariffs.

And it was wrong. Jesus Christ, your collective blind complacency and willingness to allow “leaders” to rape the Constitution as long as it suits your narrative makes me want to puke.

 

[Plan9Misfit]

Well, there's 27 more first world countries.

And they’re also voting on retaliatory tariffs, so there’s that. So please stop with the fucking bootlicking.

In Response to Trump, E.U. Prepares to Vote on Retaliatory Tariffs

European Union officials will vet and vote on a list of retaliatory tariffs this week, while contemplating what comes next.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Plan9Misfit]

EU offered ‘zero-for-zero’ deal to US weeks before tariff announcement

Cars and other goods were to be included, according to EU trade commissioner, who says offer is still on table

www.theguardian.com

And then there’s this. They tried this long before Cheeto launched the trade war. But hey, don’t let facts distract you from thinking that he drove this.

 

[Cujo]

And they’re also voting on retaliatory tariffs, so there’s that. So please stop with the fucking bootlicking.

In Response to Trump, E.U. Prepares to Vote on Retaliatory Tariffs

European Union officials will vet and vote on a list of retaliatory tariffs this week, while contemplating what comes next.

www.nytimes.com

Pointing out that 27 countries are willing to negotiate with us is "bootlicking?" What tf ever.

 

[Sheik]

Buy stock calls dummies.

 

[Plan9Misfit]

Pointing out that 27 countries are willing to negotiate with us is "bootlicking?" What tf ever.

The bootlicking is naively thinking that he was a catalyst for the EU zero-for-zero offer (since it was offered before tariffs went into effect), that what he’s doing is legal, that it’s short term, or that many developed nations are actually going to talk to him.

But, to be fair, I’m sure that penguin island has a lot to offer.

Also, if anyone thinks that the US has the infrastructure to return to manufacturing anything of note within 5 years, then you’re insane. This is going to cost all of us massively. Enjoy your tax hikes, “conservatives”. Fucking bootlickers.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

EU offered ‘zero-for-zero’ deal to US weeks before tariff announcement

Cars and other goods were to be included, according to EU trade commissioner, who says offer is still on table

www.theguardian.com

And then there’s this. They tried this long before Cheeto launched the trade war. But hey, don’t let facts distract you from thinking that he drove this.

No offense but that's not what the title says. They offered a zero for zero deal on specific goods. If I were the President I'd tell them to F Off with that type of offer too. You can't say, hey we will remove tariffs on industrial products that America imports heavily (Just an example) but we are going to leave Tariffs in place on agricultural goods that America exports heavily. It's bad faith attempt to claim you are in the right when you're actually in the wrong.

Also, I'm trying to understand the VAT system they have over there. But it sounds like a BS end around full of excuses to tax imported goods without calling it a Tariff. When you have to write that much to try to explain a system, it's usually a rigged system.

 

[Plan9Misfit]

No offense but that's not what the title says. They offered a zero for zero deal on specific goods. If I were the President I'd tell them to F Off with that type of offer too. You can't say, hey we will remove tariffs on industrial products that America imports heavily (Just an example) but we are going to leave Tariffs in place on agricultural goods that America exports heavily. It's bad faith attempt to claim you are in the right when you're actually in the wrong.

Also, I'm trying to understand the VAT system they have over there. But it sounds like a BS end around full of excuses to tax imported goods without calling it a Tariff. When you have to write that much to try to explain a system, it's usually a rigged system.

Europe and the UK have had a VAT system for decades on all imported goods. That’s nothing new.

And, if this is all a “negotiation” as the bootlickers claim, then you always open with a lower position than where you actually intend to close. Otherwise, you’re either giving up more than you should or leaving money on the table.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

manufacturing anything of note

I also disagree with this. It certainly takes time but you're time frame is way off. I've seen first hand the rate that John Deere can close a plan in America and open a plant in Mexico. You can't tell me it takes 5 years. Those things are accomplished in more like 6 months to a year time frames.

 

[Plan9Misfit]

I also disagree with this. It certainly takes time but you're time frame is way off. I've seen first hand the rate that John Deere can close a plan in America and open a plant in Mexico. You can't tell me it takes 5 years. Those things are accomplished in more like 6 months to a year time frames.

Keep lying to yourself about that. It takes years to stand facilities back up. Permits, buildings, codes, regulations, licenses, certifications, staffing, raw material, etc.

6 months is laughable.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Also, I'm trying to understand the VAT system they have over there. But it sounds like a BS end around full of excuses to tax imported goods without calling it a Tariff. When you have to write that much to try to explain a system, it's usually a rigged system.

I thought the VAT was basically a national sales tax on almost every consumer good, not just imports.

Maybe it's just that so many things are imported in Britain that it seems like everything.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Europe and the UK have had a VAT system for decades on all imported goods. That’s nothing new.

I don't think anyone has said anything about this being a new problem. The last time we didn't have a trade deficit was probably 50 or 60 years ago. This is an attempt to correct a long broken system.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I thought the VAT was basically a national sales tax on almost every consumer good, not just imports.

Maybe it's just that so many things are imported in Britain that it seems like everything.

What they claim is that they charge a VAT tax rate to imported goods similar to the overall taxes that were involved in the domestically produced similar good. Again, sounds like a long winded way to saying, we use VAT to make sure domestic goods are priced competitively with imported goods. AKA what tariff's are.

 

[Plan9Misfit]

I don't think anyone has said anything about this being a new problem. The last time we didn't have a trade deficit was probably 50 or 60 years ago. This is an attempt to correct a long broken system.

Oh, I completely agree that the system is broken, but a VAT is different than a tariff.

 

[Cujo]

I don't think anyone has said anything about this being a new problem. The last time we didn't have a trade deficit was probably 50 or 60 years ago. This is an attempt to correct a long broken system.

WE'RE ALL FUCKED!!! FUCKING BOOTLICKER!!!

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Keep lying to yourself about that. It takes years to stand facilities back up. Permits, buildings, codes, regulations, licenses, certifications, staffing, raw material, etc.

6 months is laughable.

It's not but I have no idea where you live. In California 5 years may be accurate. In middle Missouri? 6 months is absolutely accurate. Quacker Windows built a massive plant nearby in Eldon Missouri. The place went up in 6 months. Steel framed manufacturing buildings are actually very quick to build.

And honestly they have already expanded the operation once and are planning a second expansion. So no, it doesn't take nearly what you think. But I've had first hand experience with this stuff in Iowa and Missouri (Family business was a tool and die company, hell I ran most of the production machines as a kid and we did a lot of work with John Deere who used to do a ton of manufacturing in Dubuque Iowa). I can't vouch for other states.

 

[Plan9Misfit]

It's not but I have no idea where you live. In California 5 years may be accurate. In middle Missouri? 6 months is absolutely accurate. Quacker Windows built a massive plant nearby in Eldon Missouri. The place went up in 6 months. Steel framed manufacturing buildings are actually very quick to build.

And honestly they have already expanded the operation once and a planning a second expansion. So no, it doesn't take nearly what you think. But I've had first hand experience with this stuff in Iowa and Missouri. I can't vouch for other states.

I live in both CA and TX. And, infrastructure and supply chains are the same across the country. Remember the industry I work in. It takes years to get manufacturing facilities up and running. It’s hilarious that people fool themselves into thinking otherwise.

And, we don’t have the resources to procure many of the raw materials needed for production, anyway, so we’re still dependent on imports. Meaning, we’re eating the tariffs, but now also get to eat US labor costs and regulation expenses.

 

[Plan9Misfit]

WE'RE ALL FUCKED!!! FUCKING BOOTLICKER!!!

Keep tolerating empirical presidencies by accepting violations to the Constitution. Just be sure to remain silent when the Democrats do something evil, because you can’t agree with raping it for your convenience but complain when someone rapes it for theirs.

That’s bootlicking.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

And, we don’t have the resources to procure many of the raw materials needed for production, anyway, so we’re still dependent on imports. Meaning, we’re eating the tariffs, but now also get to eat US labor costs and regulation expenses.

Yeah labor costs here aren't going to compete with China, ever. And yes, goods will have to be imported for raw materials. That still doesn't mean domestic production can't be increased. And as a company if you're selling the product in the US you can save massively on shipping costs and avoid tariffs. So it's not exactly a 1 for 1 increase from a tariff.

I have no idea what Trumps ultimate goal is. If it's a goal of short term tariff's to get a long term level playing field I'm good with it. Because ultimately that's what's best for everyone. If the long term goal is just to tariff the crap out of every other country and produce everything domestically that's just foolish. The idea should be to get other countries to stop pulling their bullshit, we can stop with our bullshit tariffs and suddenly everyone benefits. But what I don't buy into is that America is suddenly the bad guy for doing what other countries have done to us for 50+ years.

Third option, tariff the crap out of other countries but eliminate income taxes. This isn't really going to happen, but I'd be thrilled with it. I'd be happy to pay the premium for other countries crap if I got a legit tax break somewhere else.

 

[Plan9Misfit]

Yeah labor costs here aren't going to compete with China, ever. And yes, goods will have to be imported for raw materials. That still doesn't mean domestic production can't be increased. And as a company if you're selling the product in the US you can save massively on shipping costs and avoid tariffs. So it's not exactly a 1 for 1 increase from a tariff.

I have no idea what Trumps ultimate goal is. If it's a goal of short term tariff's to get a long term level playing field I'm good with it. Because ultimately that's what's best for everyone. If the long term goal is just to tariff the crap out of every other country and produce everything domestically that's just foolish. The idea should be to get other countries to stop pulling their bullshit, we can stop with our bullshit tariffs and suddenly everyone benefits. But what I don't buy into is that America is suddenly the bad guy for doing what other countries have done to us for 50+ years.

Third option, tariff the crap out of other countries but eliminate income taxes. This isn't really going to happen, but I'd be thrilled with it. I'd be happy to pay the premium for other countries crap if I got a legit tax break somewhere else.

The issue is that returning to full production capability in any industry is a multi-year endeavor. It cannot happen in a matter of months because you have to rebuild infrastructures. That’s why the tariffs are fucking dangerous. They’ll cause massive unemployment and skyrocketing costs; both of which will adversely impact ramp-ups for domestic production. This is a very real supply chain and economic issue. It’s one of the primary reasons why the market is so volatile right now. It’s bracing for double digit unemployment and massive inflation (i.e., stagflation).

I agree with you on federal taxes. You either have federal taxes or tariffs, but not both. Of the two, tariffs are actually preferred, as that is more of a consumption tax than a forced tax. Both are evil.

And, again, no one seems to be willing to address my other issue here: the willful violation of the Constitution. Congress is the only branch of Government with the power to tax, and yet, too many people, including folks here, are willfully ignoring that, because it’s for something they support. That’s a HUGE problem. We all know that at some point, the Democrats will have control again, and God help us when they force their shit stain policies on us again; even worse when the President violates the Constitution (again). Because, when that happens (and we all know it will), no one here can complain about it because you were complicit when “your guy” did it previously.