Police Taser 16 year old with broken back

[Smitty]

I meant anything causing suspicion can give cause to stopping or detainment. Running away is damn sure one of those things that can cause that suspicion.

I don't think that is true.

 

[Cotton]

I don't think that is true.

You don't think running away is a cause for suspicion? Really?

 

[Clay_Allison]

Well, thank goodness you have been lucky enough not to get shanked, but a gun is a million times more deadly if only for distance alone.

Since prisons aren't known for giving you a lot of "distance" (it's made up of enclosed spaces) I don't see how that's relevant. But I'm glad being stabbed is inherently not scary. Compared to pulling over an old lady for failing to signal, getting into a confrontation with a convicted felon who does nothing but lift weights is downright relaxing.

 

[Cotton]

Since prisons aren't known for giving you a lot of "distance" (it's made up of enclosed spaces) I don't see how that's relevant.

It's relevant because the original discussion is whether a tazer is okay to use. I'm quite sure you have pepper spray as an insufficient equivalent. If not, they should probably change that rule.

But I'm glad being stabbed is inherently not scary. Compared to pulling over an old lady for failing to signal, getting into a confrontation with a convicted felon who does nothing but lift weights is downright relaxing.

Not once did I even infer that.

 

[fortsbest]

Tazing is also not a 1st resort and its not approved for use just because you feel like it.

In all of the death by TASER cases there have been extenuating circumstances. Some health issue or problem that along with the taser application reulted in death. Officers are required to be tased in training before using them so they understand the feeling and how it incapacitates. By itself it is no more lethal than pepper spray. It is however the latest non lethal force tool cops have and you will see articles reference people dying from it because people want it taken away from us. I have used it before and not killed anyone with it. I have had to apply it more than once and no one died but they did comply.

In any police department training, we have what is called the use of force continuum. It is the general escalation of force method officers are taught. Basically they are all similar and go like this from lowest level to highest:

Officer presence
verbal control
soft open hand control (taser is here at our department)
hard open hand control (pepper spray or batons are here)
lethal force

So to respond to your comment, it is not the first resort, but it is among the first resorts when someone presents to us they will resist or not cooperate. It is less impactful than being sprayed or struck with a baton.
I'm a big guy (6'3" 250) so i'm less likely to have to go hands on than others and that's been the case throughout my 23 years as a cop, but there are those occasions when going hands on with someone is just not worth the risk. I and any officer want to go home to our families at night and preferably without injury. If that means I have to taser someone that isn't cooperating, so be it. Anyone though that does it just cuz they feel like it doesn't need to have a badge. Although yet again we have Jiggs waxing extreme as though everyone with a badge is here to abuse the average Joe. It just isn't so..That is all.

 

[Clay_Allison]

It's relevant because the original discussion is whether a tazer is okay to use. I'm quite sure you have pepper spray as an insufficient equivalent. If not, they should probably change that rule.

Not once did I even infer that.

The thing that I picked on was how the "horror stories" give cops the right to be paranoid and trigger happy and start using violence as soon as they have a bad feeling. That's silly. Cops aren't even in America's most dangerous job. They just happen to be a bunch of young, aggressive guys who are not currently being held to as high a standard of professionalism as they would be in a lot of other first world countries. BTW, the standards of Corrections in this state is even worse.

 

[Jiggyfly]

It has everything to do with it. You just refuse to acknowledge it.

So like I said you think these officers or any officers should taze everybody they pull over 1st because hey you never know.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I can agree with that to a degree. But, it's impossible to tell which cases are warranted and which are not because none of us are there. All we have is the info the media provides to us. It's hard to say what moves were made, hands reaching into pockets, belligerent threats, etc. at the scene where it happened.

To be fair I have handled excessive force cases as an attorney so I have had access to far more then just media coverage on some cases like these. So if we are just talking about generality I have a little more of a background then just media reports in general.

 

[Cotton]

In all of the death by TASER cases there have been extenuating circumstances. Some health issue or problem that along with the taser application reulted in death. Officers are required to be tased in training before using them so they understand the feeling and how it incapacitates. By itself it is no more lethal than pepper spray. It is however the latest non lethal force tool cops have and you will see articles reference people dying from it because people want it taken away from us. I have used it before and not killed anyone with it. I have had to apply it more than once and no one died but they did comply.

In any police department training, we have what is called the use of force continuum. It is the general escalation of force method officers are taught. Basically they are all similar and go like this from lowest level to highest:

Officer presence
verbal control
soft open hand control (taser is here at our department)
hard open hand control (pepper spray or batons are here)
lethal force

So to respond to your comment, it is not the first resort, but it is among the first resorts when someone presents to us they will resist or not cooperate. It is less impactful than being sprayed or struck with a baton.
I'm a big guy (6'3" 250) so i'm less likely to have to go hands on than others and that's been the case throughout my 23 years as a cop, but there are those occasions when going hands on with someone is just not worth the risk. I and any officer want to go home to our families at night and preferably without injury. If that means I have to taser someone that isn't cooperating, so be it. Anyone though that does it just cuz they feel like it doesn't need to have a badge. Although yet again we have Jiggs waxing extreme as though everyone with a badge is here to abuse the average Joe. It just isn't so..That is all.

I, for one, really appreciate what you do daily to ensure mine and my families safety. Just as much as I appreciate our military friends, I appreciate you just as much.

 

[Cotton]

So like I said you think these officers or any officers should taze everybody they pull over 1st because hey you never know.

That's the stupidest thing you have ever said, and that's saying something.

 

[fortsbest]

I don't think that is true.

It's not. Not saying I have a lack of interest, but if I say hi to someone and they run, unless I had an alternative reason for talking to them in the first place, I'm just laughing.

 

[Jiggyfly]

In all of the death by TASER cases there have been extenuating circumstances. Some health issue or problem that along with the taser application reulted in death. Officers are required to be tased in training before using them so they understand the feeling and how it incapacitates. By itself it is no more lethal than pepper spray. It is however the latest non lethal force tool cops have and you will see articles reference people dying from it because people want it taken away from us. I have used it before and not killed anyone with it. I have had to apply it more than once and no one died but they did comply.

In any police department training, we have what is called the use of force continuum. It is the general escalation of force method officers are taught. Basically they are all similar and go like this from lowest level to highest:

Officer presence
verbal control
soft open hand control (taser is here at our department)
hard open hand control (pepper spray or batons are here)
lethal force

So to respond to your comment, it is not the first resort, but it is among the first resorts when someone presents to us they will resist or not cooperate. It is less impactful than being sprayed or struck with a baton.
I'm a big guy (6'3" 250) so i'm less likely to have to go hands on than others and that's been the case throughout my 23 years as a cop, but there are those occasions when going hands on with someone is just not worth the risk. I and any officer want to go home to our families at night and preferably without injury. If that means I have to taser someone that isn't cooperating, so be it. Anyone though that does it just cuz they feel like it doesn't need to have a badge. Although yet again we have Jiggs waxing extreme as though everyone with a badge is here to abuse the average Joe. It just isn't so..That is all.

WTF are you talking about where am I waxing extreme.

I fully believe in the rights of officers to use a tazer the question is what is threatening behavior do you think a guy who just fell off a bridge is a threat?

And for the record I have never bashed cops in any of these threads so get your facts straight bub.

 

[Cotton]

To be fair I have handled excessive force cases as an attorney so I have had access to far more then just media coverage on some cases like these. So if we are just talking about generality I have a little more of a background then just media reports in general.

Congrats. The general public doesn't have access to that. And, even in your cases you didn't have access to what happened in the thousands of other cases where a cop was killed, or where a cop used the right amount of force versus excessive.

 

[Cotton]

It's not. Not saying I have a lack of interest, but if I say hi to someone and they run, unless I had an alternative reason for talking to them in the first place, I'm just laughing.

Of course not, but Smitty is being obtuse. If you stopped anyone for whatever reason and they ran, would you not chase?

 

[Jiggyfly]

That's the stupidest thing you have ever said, and that's saying something.

You where the one who posted the videos would you like to explain how they are relevant to the article?

 

[Cotton]

You where the one who posted the videos would you like to explain how they are relevant to the article?

I already have.

 

[Clay_Allison]

Forts is one of the good ones, and he works for a larger, more modern police department that has actual training. In this state, the local yokel "Barney Fifes" and the highway patrol (who protect Texas from ticket shortages and don't do much else) seem to be the biggest offenders among Police. Dallas (and Dallas Area Cities), Houston, Austin, and Midland seem to usually have good departments. San Antonio... not as good. It isn't awful, but they are prone to corruption scandals.

 

[Jiggyfly]

I already have.

ok.

 

[fortsbest]

Since prisons aren't known for giving you a lot of "distance" (it's made up of enclosed spaces) I don't see how that's relevant. But I'm glad being stabbed is inherently not scary. Compared to pulling over an old lady for failing to signal, getting into a confrontation with a convicted felon who does nothing but lift weights is downright relaxing.

Clay, I don't envy you your job at all and it isn't one I'd want to do. I sincerely feel and pray for you guys every day. One of the big differences is though, that you guys know the people you deal with generally will hurt you. You are constantly on guard against that with no relief from it. (Another reason I don't envy you your job. More stressful and less pay). We on the street however have to determine first of someone is a threat and for some, that is the tough part. I have heard cases where little old ladies were packing and one story in particular where the lady was later found to have a gun and said the only reason she decided not to shoot the officer was because he was nice to her. She had planned on it but changed her mind.
And then when some officers are hyper vigilant they are criticized for rudeness or treating people badly by just putting them in the back of their car after a pat down. Stay safe Brother.

 

[Cotton]

Forts is one of the good ones, and he works for a larger, more modern police department that has actual training. In this state, the local yokel "Barney Fifes" and the highway patrol (who protect Texas from ticket shortages and don't do much else) seem to be the biggest offenders among Police. Dallas (and Dallas Area Cities), Houston, Austin, and Midland seem to usually have good departments. San Antonio... not as good. It isn't awful, but they are prone to corruption scandals.

How the hell do you know about all of those police departments? How do you know they are good? I need examples.