Interesting race topics . . .

[Cowboysrock55]

I think there certainly can be racism against whites. It's pretty difficult to track inside a country where you're considered the default race. But if a group of extremists beat up a white guy because of his race, or if a company specifically fired someone because of their race, I would consider that racism. It's just whites as a race (if you can call them a race since different ethnicities have been considered white or not white depending on the era) haven't endured baked in systemic racism like Blacks, Latinos, Asians, Native Americans, etc. That's the thing about whiteness it's this made up thing that throughout American history meant "people we aren't discriminating against at this moment"

Are Jewish people white? I bet you the Ku Klux Klan didn't think so.

I'm sure that the Irish could probably claim a certain amoubt of discrimination that this day in England. In the US they weren't considered white for quite a while, until they were allowed to assimilate. That's the point, whiteness is frequently synonymous with acceptance US history. That doesn't mean people with white skin haven't been discriminated against, it means that when they were they had the status of "whiteness" withheld from them.

Call it what you want but everyone belongs to a race. And when you promote one race over others you are inherently being racist towards the races you are overlooking.

 

[townsend]

Call it what you want but everyone belongs to a race. And when you promote one race over others you are inherently being racist towards the races you are overlooking.

That's silly. What your suggesting is the only people who can address race are racists. (And when I say racist, I mean person motivated to oppress, hurt, or deprive persons of privileges based on race)

If I say, "Hey somebody's burning down black churches, we have to do something to safeguard black churches." I don't believe you're foolish enough to say " Hey wait we have to watch all churches, even though only the black churches are being burned down, otherwise it's discrimination."

Ideally we could ignore race but as long as we're seeing minorities treated as 2nd class citizens, it's irresponsible to ignore reality. The only way you can counteract racism is by acknowledgeing race. Anything else and you're just burying your head in the sand.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Ideally we could ignore race but as long as we're seeing minorities treated as 2nd class citizens, it's irresponsible to ignore reality. The only way you can counteract racism is by acknowledgeing race. Anything else and you're just burying your head in the sand.

Sure but the problem is every time you see something bad happen to a person of a certain race, you associate it happening because of their race. When bad things happen to other races you see at just normal occurances.

And no, burning down a black church isn't what we are talking about so stop making false equivalencies.

 

[townsend]

Sure but the problem is every time you see something bad happen to a person of a certain race, you associate it happening because of their race. When bad things happen to other races you see at just normal occurrences.

I absolutely don't and frankly that kind of case by case basis is not what we're talking about. I'm talking about baked in systemic oppression like segregation (which is still enacted in schools to this day). Or the school to prison pipeline or chronic abuse and exploitation by municipalities like LA, Baltimore, and Ferguson (and a hundred more cities that just haven't made the news yet.) I'm talking about redlining that kept black people from moving into good neighborhoods. I'm talking about a police culture that treats black men as inherently dangerous and have shown over and over and over that they're willing to put them down like animals if they make a wrong move.

I'm not arguing, no one's arguing that everything that happens to minorities is because they're a minority, I'm arguing that we still live in a system made to favor whites, and the people who say we should ignore race are either intentionally or unintentionally defending that system's racist construction.

]And no, burning down a black church isn't what we are talking about so stop making false equivalencies.

It is precisely what we're talking about. The reason racists started burning down black churches after reconstruction was because that was where black people were learning to read. It was a distinct effort to keep them subordinate. Just like segregation. Which is at the heart of the economic injustice we need to make right.

 

[skidadl]

Fixing racism with racism is the most ridiculous simplistic interpretation I could possible think of. That's like saying that setting a bone is fixing a broken bone with a broken bone.
Or returning stolen money is "fixing theft with theft".

An action designed specifically to counteract a negative action is going to operate inside the same parameters. If a race is injured by discrimination it will take acknowledgement of that race to counteract it.

If you accidentally poison a municipality's water supply the people who should be reimbursed are the people in that municipality. You aren't discriminating against people who get their water elsewhere, they just weren't affected, so they aren't entitled to damages.

I think that the best thing to do is to have more citizens that are passionate about the subject to move to action in whatever way moves them. The only role the government is responsible for is to go to every measure to make sure that the system is completely fair for everyone. If special attention needs to be given to additional policy to ensure that minorities are getting a fair shake, then make it happen. I do not agree that the government needs to financially make it for lost time. I am perfectly good with the state acknowledging past wrongs.

The people have really lost focus of how to make change happen. They want to make noise about things so the government can to it for them. It is up to you and me to ensure that the country empowers those who have been held back. Nobody wants to do anything, they just want to use the government as a service for all sorts of things. That gives to power back to them.

I'd be interested how much government money has empowered native Americans. As far as I can tell they are still very much impoverished but I am no expert.

A lot of good work has been done to right past wrongs. The citizens, communities and anyone who cares needs to stand up and say f this we are gonna make shit better.

 

[Kbrown]

Give minorities free college, where they can take courses on post-colonialism and toxic masculinity and problematic whiteness.

It's the circle of life!

 

[skidadl]

Give minorities free college, where they can take courses on post-colonialism and toxic masculinity and problematic whiteness.

It's the circle of life!

 

[Smitty]

I absolutely don't and frankly that kind of case by case basis is not what we're talking about. I'm talking about baked in systemic oppression like segregation (which is still enacted in schools to this day). Or the school to prison pipeline or chronic abuse and exploitation by municipalities like LA, Baltimore, and Ferguson (and a hundred more cities that just haven't made the news yet.) I'm talking about redlining that kept black people from moving into good neighborhoods. I'm talking about a police culture that treats black men as inherently dangerous and have shown over and over and over that they're willing to put them down like animals if they make a wrong move.

I'm not arguing, no one's arguing that everything that happens to minorities is because they're a minority, I'm arguing that we still live in a system made to favor whites, and the people who say we should ignore race are either intentionally or unintentionally defending that system's racist construction.


It is precisely what we're talking about. The reason racists started burning down black churches after reconstruction was because that was where black people were learning to read. It was a distinct effort to keep them subordinate. Just like segregation. Which is at the heart of the economic injustice we need to make right.

Al Sharpton Jr over here is misrepresenting history, forgetting the fact that non-black citizens today are guiltless in the wrongdoings of the past, and black citizens today are already the beneficiaries of a century of social programs to assist the poor and a half century of what is frankly unconstitutional legislation that we turn a blind eye towards because it was specifically designed to help them out cause we felt guilty.

Finally, we are today a more multicultural and diverse nation than pretty much any other one out there, so, while racism does exist in small circles (including some areas of law enforcement) it is NO WHERE NEAR pervasive enough to justify continued policies that elevate one race over another to fix these past wrongs.

The opportunity exists, through hard work and sacrifice, for this generation of minorities to end the cycle of poverty. Even inner city schools today are better resources than what many white people got a generation ago.

How much more until these "injustices" are finally made right? Can we write a check and be done with it?

The fact is, there are segments of black culture and the black community that are just as culpable for their place in today's society and blaming it on past oppressions is so hollow as to be completely meaningless at this point.

Some segments of racism still exist. Law enforcement has a problem with it. The criminal justice system does too.

But workplace racism in any major city? Almost entirely eradicated. Same goes for education opportunities across the public university sphere of any state. There are so many footholds already in place to pull yourself out of the cycle that I have no pity for those who are stuck in it.

The ignored but obvious fact is that single parenthood/having more children than you can afford to support is the only legitimate excuse for crippling poverty in the United States today, and such a scenario is almost completely avoidable through responsible decisions. You cannot blame whitey for that anymore.

 

[skidadl]

I was watching the Gruden QB camp with Watkins today and thought Watkins said it best. I came from the projects and I knew I had to bust my butt so nobody else would take my job. That's pretty much the sum of it. Lots of us white folks came from poverty going back generations and found a way. Hopefully the next generation does better than I do. Maybe we can build some momentum in our family for years to come. It does suck for those starting from behind but nobody can make you achieve or make it happen for you. I'm not crying because the system was set up for me to fail. Most of my kind never make it far either but I ain't even mad. And for those that come from families that are set up better for future success - bravo to them!

 

[Smitty]

If I say, "Hey somebody's burning down black churches, we have to do something to safeguard black churches." I don't believe you're foolish enough to say " Hey wait we have to watch all churches, even though only the black churches are being burned down, otherwise it's discrimination."

Actually, that's exactly what discrimination is. Perhaps you are ignorant of the term's meaning.

Tax brackets are another form of discrimination; it's just a societally accepted and constitutionally unprotected one.

But yes, protecting one race's set of churches and not another's is the textbook definition of discrimination. It might be the right thing to do, but it's still discrimination.

Where it becomes racism is where you turn a blind eye (or deliberately desire, as the case may be) the unwarranted elevation of one race over another for fabricated or once real but now non existent injustices, such as to combat racism in college admissions. Since the liberals run the show on college admissions almost without exception, there is no racism in college admissions against minorities anymore. Therefore fraudulent points awarded for "diversity" has been exposed as a lie simply to mask the preference for more minorities at the expense of a colorblind, merit based system.

If meritorious minority candidates were really being turned away in favor of less qualified white candidates, then I think everyone would agree we need to change the process to combat the racism and create equal opportunity. But that's not what's happening, is it?

 

[Cotton]

Al Sharpton Jr over here is misrepresenting history, forgetting the fact that non-black citizens today are guiltless in the wrongdoings of the past, and black citizens today are already the beneficiaries of a century of social programs to assist the poor and a half century of what is frankly unconstitutional legislation that we turn a blind eye towards because it was specifically designed to help them out cause we felt guilty.

Finally, we are today a more multicultural and diverse nation than pretty much any other one out there, so, while racism does exist in small circles (including some areas of law enforcement) it is NO WHERE NEAR pervasive enough to justify continued policies that elevate one race over another to fix these past wrongs.

The opportunity exists, through hard work and sacrifice, for this generation of minorities to end the cycle of poverty. Even inner city schools today are better resources than what many white people got a generation ago.

How much more until these "injustices" are finally made right? Can we write a check and be done with it?

The fact is, there are segments of black culture and the black community that are just as culpable for their place in today's society and blaming it on past oppressions is so hollow as to be completely meaningless at this point.

Some segments of racism still exist. Law enforcement has a problem with it. The criminal justice system does too.

But workplace racism in any major city? Almost entirely eradicated. Same goes for education opportunities across the public university sphere of any state. There are so many footholds already in place to pull yourself out of the cycle that I have no pity for those who are stuck in it.

The ignored but obvious fact is that single parenthood/having more children than you can afford to support is the only legitimate excuse for crippling poverty in the United States today, and such a scenario is almost completely avoidable through responsible decisions. You cannot blame whitey for that anymore.

Man, that is spot on what I was trying to convey.

 

[Cotton]

Actually, that's exactly what discrimination is. Perhaps you are ignorant of the term's meaning.

Tax brackets are another form of discrimination; it's just a societally accepted and constitutionally unprotected one.

But yes, protecting one race's set of churches and not another's is the textbook definition of discrimination. It might be the right thing to do, but it's still discrimination.

Where it becomes racism is where you turn a blind eye (or deliberately desire, as the case may be) the unwarranted elevation of one race over another for fabricated or once real but now non existent injustices, such as to combat racism in college admissions. Since the liberals run the show on college admissions almost without exception, there is no racism in college admissions against minorities anymore. Therefore fraudulent points awarded for "diversity" has been exposed as a lie simply to mask the preference for more minorities at the expense of a colorblind, merit based system.

If meritorious minority candidates were really being turned away in favor of less qualified white candidates, then I think everyone would agree we need to change the process to combat the racism and create equal opportunity. But that's not what's happening, is it?

On a roll.

 

[Cotton]

I was watching the Gruden QB camp with Watkins today and thought Watkins said it best. I came from the projects and I knew I had to bust my butt so nobody else would take my job. That's pretty much the sum of it. Lots of us white folks came from poverty going back generations and found a way. Hopefully the next generation does better than I do. Maybe we can build some momentum in our family for years to come. It does suck for those starting from behind but nobody can make you achieve or make it happen for you. I'm not crying because the system was set up for me to fail. Most of my kind never make it far either but I ain't even mad. And for those that come from families that are set up better for future success - bravo to them!

Dude, you aren't black. You don't get to play the poor never had a chance card.

 

[skidadl]

Dude, you aren't black. You don't get to play the poor never had a chance card.

~gubment cheese ^5~

poorcrackers4life

 

[Cotton]

I can't remember who said it, but someone mentioned that Indians are still in poverty. This is the ultimate example of why government dependence is never a good thing. They are in poverty now because they got lazy. Government aided laziness. Were they done wrong in the beginning of this country? Yep. Did the governments solution to their past wrongs fix it? Hell no. They ended up worse off because of it. If anyone has ever been to New Mexico they can attest to this.

Point is, reliance on anyone except your own willing and able body to further yourself and your family is a mistake. It's also a terrible example to your kids. Which is exactly why the cycle continues for the impoverished. You can't teach your kids that it's okay to rely on the government to feed you or the cycle will never ever be broken.

 

[Cotton]

~gubment cheese ^5~

poorcrackers4life

4 generations for me. How far back does your poverty go? I'm seriously asking. It makes a difference and fully supports the point of how the cycle can be broken.

 

[skidadl]

4 generations for me. How far back does your poverty go? I'm seriously asking. It makes a difference and fully supports the point of how the cycle can be broken.

I honestly don't know...that's how far. We've had some success sprinkled in there occasionally.

I know that addiction goes back in my family for many generations. My great-great grandmother was an opioid addict that died when she caught herself on fire cookie while high. Pretty much most of my family are alcoholics/addicts for many generations. That may explain the fine specimen that I am.

 

[L.T. Fan]

I was watching the Gruden QB camp with Watkins today and thought Watkins said it best. I came from the projects and I knew I had to bust my butt so nobody else would take my job. That's pretty much the sum of it. Lots of us white folks came from poverty going back generations and found a way. Hopefully the next generation does better than I do. Maybe we can build some momentum in our family for years to come. It does suck for those starting from behind but nobody can make you achieve or make it happen for you. I'm not crying because the system was set up for me to fail. Most of my kind never make it far either but I ain't even mad. And for those that come from families that are set up better for future success - bravo to them!

I hear you. What a lot of folks seem to overlook is that the system doesn't start everyone at the same level regardless of race. Where you are dropped into this life is your starting point. Getting to the desired finish line is longer and harder if you started disadvantaged but it's your race to run. The system isn't obligated to make you succeed.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I hear you. What a lot of folks seem to overlook is that the system doesn't start everyone at the same level regardless of race. Where you are dropped into this life is your starting point. Getting to the desired finish line is longer and harder if you started disadvantaged but it's your race to run. The system isn't obligated to make you succeed.

Sure and part of the system is that one works their ass off so that their kid has advantages that maybe they didn't. I can certainly see the progression in my family from my grandpa who worked his whole life as a maintenance worker at a meat packing plant, to my dad not going to college and owning his own manufacturing bisiness to where I am today.

 

[Jiggyfly]

Give minorities free college, where they can take courses on post-colonialism and toxic masculinity and problematic whiteness.

It's the circle of life!

Yeah that's the only reason people go to college.

Were you not just talking about people going to extremes to make a point?