jsmith6919
Honored Member - RIP
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2013
- Messages
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It's fitting that Garrett finally got fired because the team quit on him
Yea and with an all time type of OL group to boot in 2014 and 2016.'Several wasted seasons' is an understatement that trivializes the gravity of what we wasted. Two windows that were a Top 7 QB's prime in Romo and salary cap-friendly-cheap-QB with Dak.
A coach getting one of those windows is a rare blessing. Getting two is riding a unicorn.
It’s not a massive reach. I agree with most of what Sturm is saying.Sturm quite literally started that article with, "I would've fired him long ago", and consistently claims he wanted him fired at the end of 2012.
Yet somehow Sturm's take is an indication that most Cowboys fans are way off on Garrett just because he is self-aware enough to admit that he pondered that he may have been wrong following 2014?
That's a massive reach, especially because the underlying premise, which is that Garrett was out of his depth and should've been fired years earlier, was ultimately correct and proven out after several wasted seasons.
Why do you try so hard?This just came up on my bleacher report Cowboys feed and even I thought it was too funny not to share:
Jason Garrett's offensive success in Dallas shouldn't be overlooked
Many have pooh-poohed the New York Giants’ hire of Jason Garrett as their offensive coordinator, but his numbers in Dallas don’t lie.giantswire.usatoday.com
He went to Giantswire.Why do you try so hard?
Seriously....why?
Why does it bother you so much to see him so heavily criticized that you feel compelled to make counter arguments every.single.time.
Why?
So if I say that Garrett should've been fired years earlier, managed to save his job multiple times when it was hanging by a thread, only to disappoint the season immediately thereafter, generally squandered top tier talent over the years, and at times actively weakened our chances of either making the playoffs or advancing further in the playoffs, ultimately grading out as an average at absolute best HC (but some or most would likely say below average or worse), you'd agree?It’s not a massive reach. I agree with most of what Sturm is saying.
It’s the insane hyperbole that Sturm doesn’t engage in that is the cause of most of the arguing on this subject.
You’ll notice he doesn’t label him “one of the worst,” or say he does nothing well or blame him for many of the contradictory things that he’s been blamed for around here.
I think this writer makes a very valid point. The offenses of Dallas has been pretty good with his system but Garrett’s tendencies as a HC gave up games because he tends to back off and plays the clock when he gets the lead. These non aggressive tendencies have cost the Cowboys some games and he would not change. No killer instinct and wouldn't step on their necks when he had them running. He just couldn’t lose his play safe tendencies. He reavealed himself to the opponents and they used it against him.This just came up on my bleacher report Cowboys feed and even I thought it was too funny not to share:
Jason Garrett's offensive success in Dallas shouldn't be overlooked
Many have pooh-poohed the New York Giants’ hire of Jason Garrett as their offensive coordinator, but his numbers in Dallas don’t lie.giantswire.usatoday.com
You want to talk about having an honest discussion yet you start it off with being dishonest. He literally wrote the article to answer a tweet asking him to rank to most fireable moments of the Garrett era.And fwiw the Storm article today is not “10 times he should have been fired,” - it’s ten instances of mistakes
Should have read the rest of the thread before posting.I mean, he literally says each moment was fireable.
This was a pretty scathing article. Props for posting it.
An article that claims the Giants offensive talent is on par with the Cowboys? What was that written by a Giants fan or something...This just came up on my bleacher report Cowboys feed and even I thought it was too funny not to share:
Jason Garrett's offensive success in Dallas shouldn't be overlooked
Many have pooh-poohed the New York Giants’ hire of Jason Garrett as their offensive coordinator, but his numbers in Dallas don’t lie.giantswire.usatoday.com
No, it came up in my bleacher report Cowboys feed. And I said "Even I thought this was too funny."He went to Giantswire.
Yep. He did.
I would not have fired him in 2012 like Sturm says he would have. Or in 2013. Sturm acknowledges the "handicapped by the OL" problem but also highlights the coaching errors that would have made him move on. I would not have been so quick, but I also acknowledge the mistakes. So I'm agreeing with Sturm on the mistakes he made.... I just would not personally have fired after 2012.So if I say that Garrett should've been fired years earlier,
Agreed. After 3 straight 8-8 seasons where talent deficiencies but ALSO coaching mistakes cost us the playoffs, he was out of chances in 2014... but for the first time in his tenure with truly superior talent, he had a 12-4 season where he won the division. Saved his job. Then he did so again in 2016 with his best coaching performance by getting a rookie QB and rookie RB to take the league by storm. Then he did so again by rallying the players down the back half of 2018. Each time he was at the very end of the road and managed to stave off a firing by getting to the divisional round of the playoffs.managed to save his job multiple times when it was hanging by a thread
Sturm hasn't addressed this yet but I'm sure the loss of a starting QB will be mentioned. I do not think the reasonable expectation that year should have been playoffs or Super Bowl. I'm not fretting that he went 4-12 instead of 6-10 or 7-9. BFD. Do not forget that they also did not adequately have any replacement at RB, and Dez Bryant missed half the year as well and was hobbled the rest. So they were down basically the starting QB, RB, and WR.only to disappoint the season immediately thereafter
At times.generally squandered top tier talent over the years, and at times actively weakened our chances of either making the playoffs or advancing further in the playoffs
I mean, yeah, I've said he's an average HC many times.ultimately grading out as an average at absolute best HC (but some or most would likely say below average or worse), you'd agree?
Yeah, and I MOSTLY agree with Sturm. Him and I could have a reasonable discussion on the subject that didn't dissolve into 20 pages of back and forth while he accused me of being a "defender," because he'd see what I'm saying, as he says a lot of it himself.Because as far as I can tell that's Sturm's take on him in a nutshell.
Yeah, that's exactly the point. I'm saying "OMG this is insane." The last line was something like "The Cowboys loss will be the Giants gain."An article that claims the Giants offensive talent is on par with the Cowboys? What was that written by a Giants fan or something...
Yeah, uh, if anything, THIS paragraph is what doesn't agree with Sturm. He even says Garrett was a "bright offensive mind," or something along those lines. I wouldn't get carried away with giving him too much credit, but this is where the undersell gets push back from me.The theme of all this is that Garrett was never some sort of offensive mastermind, he was just a guy who lucked into a good bit of talent, rode Romo for several years because he didn't know any better and then was seemingly guilted into going with a run-heavy offense because of how the bumbling failures had mounted over time.
It wouldn't surprise me to see Jones perform over his head in this year or coming years. Yeah I do suspect they will ride Barkley but the OL is being reinforced and perhaps some of the simplicity which doomed Garrett from advancing may help Jones develop a bit.He clearly has nowhere near that talent on the Giants.
I'm sure he'll ride Barkley like a rented mule, run heavy play-action off of it and maybe cobble together an average offense if Barkley goes off for one of his peak seasons, but ultimately we all know damn good and well that Garrett isn't going to have some sort of McVay-type influence on the Giants because quite frankly he's incapable of that.
I think some people need to look in the mirror. I wasn't the one engaging in pages of diatribing. All I started this off with was "I think I would agree with much of Sturm's take... which is much more reasonable than the hot takes in the last few pages of this thread."Good lord, Smitty. He is gone. Just fucking let him go.
Ok that makes more sense. I thought you were posting it for other reasons. It's just a pathetic article all around.Yeah, that's exactly the point. I'm saying "OMG this is insane." The last line was something like "The Cowboys loss will be the Giants gain."
Um... no. We have Mike McCarthy now. Not our loss.