Game Day Chatter Thread | Week 4 | Cowboys @ Saints | 09/29/19

[Rev]

Not even really “defending,” Garrett. Not on here to make apologies for the staff today. I agreed with and even pointed out a handful of criticisms.

What I’m “defending” is common sense at this point. You get the same handful of people who fly off the handle with no coherent or logical arguments but just say the SAME. OLD. SHIT. simply because the team loses. Every time, without fail.

Lost a game? Outcoached! Yeah, that’s it! We were out coached! Garrett always gets out coached! Post some more memes!

We weren’t running enough crossing routes!

Its just fucking spoiled crybaby nonsense. Waaaaah, we lost, I don’t understand what I’m seeing, so blame the person I perceive to be in charge, and that’s the extent of my ability to contribute to the discussion. It’s fucking old, tired, boring and stupid, but it’s the complete extent of any critical loss analysis we ever get around here anymore.

Then why respond to it if it bothers you so much?

 

[midswat]

In their defense, it’s an almost certainty that garrett will be out coached every week. He’s a well below average coach with no feel for the game or instincts.

 

[UncleMilti]

Not even really “defending,” Garrett. Not on here to make apologies for the staff today. I agreed with and even pointed out a handful of criticisms.

What I’m “defending” is common sense at this point. You get the same handful of people who fly off the handle with no coherent or logical arguments but just say the SAME. OLD. SHIT. simply because the team loses. Every time, without fail.

Lost a game? Outcoached! Yeah, that’s it! We were out coached! Garrett always gets out coached! Post some more memes!

We weren’t running enough crossing routes!

Its just fucking spoiled crybaby nonsense. Waaaaah, we lost, I don’t understand what I’m seeing, so blame the person I perceive to be in charge, and that’s the extent of my ability to contribute to the discussion. It’s fucking old, tired, boring and stupid, but it’s the complete extent of any critical loss analysis we ever get around here anymore.

As the HC, when your team looks unprepared, you lose to teams with back up QBs, and you don’t seem to take control of the reins when everyone can see your assistant coaches are getting their asses handed to them.....then yeah, you as the HEAD COACH are to blame.

Maybe some of crying here is over the top but your defense of Garrett is too.

Garrett stubbornly sticks with game plans even when it’s apparent to people with little knowledge of football that the game plan isn’t working.

 

[UncleMilti]

In their defense, it’s an almost certainty that garrett will be out coached every week. He’s a well below average coach with no feel for the game or instincts.

I can only hope that Jones keeps his promise that Garrett needs to go to the next “step” this season or changes are coming. Do I trust the brains of the operation to hire a better coach? Of course not, they’re the fucktards that have kept Garrett around for 10 years but it obvious at this point this is not a SB team with him at the helm.

 

[Smitty]

As the HC, when your team looks unprepared, you lose to teams with back up QBs, and you don’t seem to take control of the reins when everyone can see your assistant coaches are getting their asses handed to them.....then yeah, you as the HEAD COACH are to blame.

Maybe some of crying here is over the top but your defense of Garrett is too.

Garrett stubbornly sticks with game plans even when it’s apparent to people with little knowledge of football that the game plan isn’t working.

What part of my “defense” of Garrett is over the top then?

I agreed they should have shortened up their passing attack, and I criticized the decision to go for it on fourth down.

Its just mind numbingly dumb to say “out coached,” or worse, to say the reason we lost is not enough deep passes or crossing routes were called, as if we could even know that.

Losing to a backup QB isn’t per se being out coached when you held them to 12 points. No, I'’d say you successfully countered whatever plan they had for Bridgewater.

And that’'s the point. Instead of robotically (how ironic, actually) repeating “"out coached!"” like a drone, how about looking at where we actually lost?

Poor running game. Poor pass protection. Turnovers. Missing our deep threat, and Cooper was more or less neutralized. These aren'’t all game-day coaching fixes, like they can just throw out their game plan and do things the exact opposite of how they practiced.

They probably needed to win this game in a low scoring slugfest. Not sure there was a way to blow this one open. And in a low scoring slug fest, the execution mistakes haunt you, which they did last night.

Not saying there was nothing the coaching staff could have done differently - and I and others pointed out what those things were. But how about some actual thought about those things?

Nah. Easier to just scream “'out coached'” while taking another swig of the Glen Livet.

 

[yimyammer]

when's the last time a Cowboy team handled being a front runner? 1995?

I felt like this was an obvious "L" given the hype and praise lavished on them after their 3-0 start, especially being on the road against a more than competent head coach with what appears to be a talented team

Ironically, I feel like I would have liked their chance more if Dallas was 0-3

The constant since jeri ran off Jimmy seems to be an ability to pull of the occasional upset but fold like a cheap tent when it really matters

 

[UncleMilti]

What part of my “defense” of Garrett is over the top then?

I agreed they should have shortened up their passing attack, and I criticized the decision to go for it on fourth down.

Its just mind numbingly dumb to say “out coached,” or worse, to say the reason we lost is not enough deep passes or crossing routes were called, as if we could even know that.

Losing to a backup QB isn’t per se being out coached when you held them to 12 points. No, I'’d say you successfully countered whatever plan they had for Bridgewater.

And that’'s the point. Instead of robotically (how ironic, actually) repeating “"out coached!"” like a drone, how about looking at where we actually lost?

Poor running game. Poor pass protection. Turnovers. Missing our deep threat, and Cooper was more or less neutralized. These aren'’t all game-day coaching fixes, like they can just throw out their game plan and do things the exact opposite of how they practiced.

They probably needed to win this game in a low scoring slugfest. Not sure there was a way to blow this one open. And in a low scoring slug fest, the execution mistakes haunt you, which they did last night.

Not saying there was nothing the coaching staff could have done differently - and I and others pointed out what those things were. But how about some actual thought about those things?

Nah. Easier to just scream “'out coached'” while taking another swig of the Glen Livet.

You act like holding the Saints to 12 points makes Garrett the next Lombardi. Its Teddy Fucking Bridgewater. He sucks.

But forget that part. Who is it on when Elliott is obviously not going anywhere in the run game, yet he's still allowed to pathetically try over and over again to establish his run game? When he couldn't make my grandmother miss on outlet passes...why were they still called over and over again? Where was Pollard? Elliott is obviously still out of shape, and his speed has dropped off this season. Pollard should have been in there to see if he changed things. Who is responsible for that?

You have 3 above average WR's...one who is supposed to be elite...yet none of them could get separation against a very average Saints secondary? We still had a deep threat in Devin Smith...where was he?
Where were the adjustments? If Moore couldn't make them, why didn't Garrett? Or are you going to argue that's not Garretts responsibility either?

This is 100% on GARRETT. He is the HC, he is responsible for taking control of everything is shit goes awry. And it was last night. Payton and his coaching staff didn't have to try hard to stop the Cowboys, because the Cowboys never changed their approach or challenged what the Saints were doing to them.

Dallas was outcoached last night, period.

 

[Couchcoach]

Idk, maybe I'm overreacting. But we heard a lot of "Yeah but you guys haven't played anyone yet". And that's true. This was our first test, and we failed.
Now it's "Calm down, it's just one game". And that's true as well. But I'm not going to make excuses every time we lose to a good team.
Either we're progressing and going to a higher level, or we're still no better than a wildcard team.

 

[yimyammer]

Idk, maybe I'm overreacting. But we heard a lot of "Yeah but you guys haven't played anyone yet". And that's true. This was our first test, and we failed.
Now it's "Calm down, it's just one game". And that's true as well. But I'm not going to make excuses every time we lose to a good team.
Either we're progressing and going to a higher level, or we're still no better than a wildcard team.

Thats right out of the homer playbook of denial.

The book was started by Spagnola and its first mantra is:

"If he's so good, then why is he available"

 

[Smitty]

You act like holding the Saints to 12 points makes Garrett the next Lombardi. Its Teddy Fucking Bridgewater. He sucks.

How the hell am I doing that?

All I said is, holding the Saints to 12 points isn't some indictable offense and display that you got outcoached. That's making him the next Lombardi?? Are you serious??

If we got outcoached, it wasn't cause Payton outschemed us. We got exactly what we wanted from Bridgewater.... minimal points and the opportunity to win the game again and again by getting the ball to our offense.

But forget that part. Who is it on when Elliott is obviously not going anywhere in the run game, yet he's still allowed to pathetically try over and over again to establish his run game?

This argument is the height of hypocrisy, though. When we abandon the run, we hear that "You have to stick with the run even if it's not working to keep the defense honest!!!" As I have been told over and over and over again was Garrett's shortcoming years ago. Now he sticks with the run and THAT'S a flaw.

When he couldn't make my grandmother miss on outlet passes...why were they still called over and over again? Where was Pollard? Elliott is obviously still out of shape, and his speed has dropped off this season. Pollard should have been in there to see if he changed things. Who is responsible for that?

You have 3 above average WR's...one who is supposed to be elite...yet none of them could get separation against a very average Saints secondary? We still had a deep threat in Devin Smith...where was he?

Where were the adjustments? If Moore couldn't make them, why didn't Garrett? Or are you going to argue that's not Garretts responsibility either?

This is 100% on GARRETT. He is the HC, he is responsible for taking control of everything is shit goes awry. And it was last night. Payton and his coaching staff didn't have to try hard to stop the Cowboys, because the Cowboys never changed their approach or challenged what the Saints were doing to them.

The problem with your "the buck stops here" theory of deciding what outcoached means, is that under this analysis, every loss is an outcoached loss, but then every win must mean Garrett outcoached the opposing coach.

As I've said, I agree that there were some decisions I found questionable and some things I think should have been done differently. The difference between me and you and others on this board is that I cannot insert myself into the staff's shoes and second guess literally every decision they made as if it was blindingly obvious, nor can I pretend that they are to blame for these things without giving them credit for their wins.

Was Payton outcoached by Garrett last year when we won 13-10? Apparently so! And therefore Garrett has outcoached three other coaches this year, then, because it's not about the positive moves Garrett made in those wins, it's about the moves that the other coaches failed to make to adjust to our playaction and RPOs!

And that's my point. There's a difference between saying "out coached", which implies Payton outsmarted us with something novel or different, versus, you have some complaints about what we did.

Sure, list your complaints. I'll agree with some and maybe not some others, but I've already posted what those are.

We were not outcoached, unless every win and loss means someone was outcoached and someone did the outcoaching. We were outplayed by the Saints defense. "Period."

 

[Smitty]

I also think it decidedly lacks a lot of perspective to scream "out coached," when you go into one of the hardest places to play in the NFL, against a team that yes, has it's backup QB, but just won itself on the road against Seattle the week before (another of the hardest places to play in the league), and play them to a one-possession game where you are a few bad calls, a few bad throws, and an ill-timed final drive sack away from probably winning 13-12, and then prop it up like some clinic on poor coaching.

There are things they should have done differently and things that I think they need to learn from, but I don't think this is a "wheels are falling off" loss nor do I think the staff -- Moore included -- did a bad job.

They got punched in the mouth. This happens in the NFL. It's about how you respond.

Next week in Green Bay will be big, but I'll go one further..... that game is pretty loseable as well. Rodgers always gives us fits at home. The meat of our schedule after these two games will define our season.

 

[Cotton]

I love how Smitty posts a huge long reply to someone, and as if those weren't enough words, follows it up with another mine-novella.

 

[bbgun]

I love how Smitty posts a huge long reply to someone, and as if those weren't enough words, follows it up with another mine-novella.

Garrett doesn't coach penalties or turnovers!

/derp

 

[Genghis Khan]

And I agree a hidden horrendously bad game management decision was going for it on that fourth down when Elliott fumbled. That gave them three free points and possibly the win.

Yep.

 

[UncleMilti]

How the hell am I doing that?

All I said is, holding the Saints to 12 points isn't some indictable offense and display that you got outcoached. That's making him the next Lombardi?? Are you serious??

If we got outcoached, it wasn't cause Payton outschemed us. We got exactly what we wanted from Bridgewater.... minimal points and the opportunity to win the game again and again by getting the ball to our offense.



This argument is the height of hypocrisy, though. When we abandon the run, we hear that "You have to stick with the run even if it's not working to keep the defense honest!!!" As I have been told over and over and over again was Garrett's shortcoming years ago. Now he sticks with the run and THAT'S a flaw.



The problem with your "the buck stops here" theory of deciding what outcoached means, is that under this analysis, every loss is an outcoached loss, but then every win must mean Garrett outcoached the opposing coach.

As I've said, I agree that there were some decisions I found questionable and some things I think should have been done differently. The difference between me and you and others on this board is that I cannot insert myself into the staff's shoes and second guess literally every decision they made as if it was blindingly obvious, nor can I pretend that they are to blame for these things without giving them credit for their wins.

Was Payton outcoached by Garrett last year when we won 13-10? Apparently so! And therefore Garrett has outcoached three other coaches this year, then, because it's not about the positive moves Garrett made in those wins, it's about the moves that the other coaches failed to make to adjust to our playaction and RPOs!

And that's my point. There's a difference between saying "out coached", which implies Payton outsmarted us with something novel or different, versus, you have some complaints about what we did.

Sure, list your complaints. I'll agree with some and maybe not some others, but I've already posted what those are.

We were not outcoached, unless every win and loss means someone was outcoached and someone did the outcoaching. We were outplayed by the Saints defense. "Period."

You are deflecting by using a blanket coaching statement. Is Garrett outcoached every game, win or lose? Of course not. He has put together some decent wins.

But...and this my big issue with Garrett- more times than not in a big game, or a game the Cowboys should win ( opposing team 2nd string QB's, injuries to a playmaker, Dallas at home, etc) Garrett is usually outcoached, or fails to move off his mound and make major adjustments in order to pull out a victory. If you don't want to call it "outcoached" call it whatever you want. The fact is he doesn't show up in those games, and neither does his team. And theres a pattern there that is in black and white. You argue semantics, but history doesn't lie when it comes to Garrett shitting the bed in big games.

Teams headed towards a solid postseason or SB win games like we saw last night. And before you give me a lecture about how every team loses games like that, you are right...every team loses games like that-but the issue with Garrett and Dallas is those type of losses happen way more often than they should.

You can argue it all day long, but you are in a very small minority who defend his coaching in big games.

 

[data]

Not even really “defending,” Garrett. Not on here to make apologies for the staff today. I agreed with and even pointed out a handful of criticisms.

What I’m “defending” is common sense at this point. You get the same handful of people who fly off the handle with no coherent or logical arguments but just say the SAME. OLD. SHIT. simply because the team loses. Every time, without fail.

Lost a game? Outcoached! Yeah, that’s it! We were out coached! Garrett always gets out coached! Post some more memes!

We weren’t running enough crossing routes!

Its just fucking spoiled crybaby nonsense. Waaaaah, we lost, I don’t understand what I’m seeing, so blame the person I perceive to be in charge, and that’s the extent of my ability to contribute to the discussion. It’s fucking old, tired, boring and stupid, but it’s the complete extent of any critical loss analysis we ever get around here anymore.

Your underlying assertion is that no coach that would reasonably come to Dallas would’ve done any better.

Yesterdays loss was inevitable.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

You act like holding the Saints to 12 points makes Garrett the next Lombardi. Its Teddy Fucking Bridgewater. He sucks.

He really does. I don't see why everyone raves about him so much. In the games I've seen him, he looks like any other old spare backup QB who is barely even competent.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

He really does. I don't see why everyone raves about him so much. In the games I've seen him, he looks like any other old spare backup QB who is barely even competent.

It wasn't a good QB performance. The Saints were horribly limited on offense and found a way to win. Props to them. We shouldn't have lost this one. Anyway, I guess we will just all have to hope for a better game next week. Everyone has a stinker sometimes. The Rams lost to the Bucs for shits sake. But this team has a lot to prove still.

 

[Cotton]

 

[jsmith6919]