6th Round Pick: Deuce Vaughn, RB, Kansas State

[p1_]

If Cole Beasley can carve out a career on the NFL, I think Turpin is similarly capable.

 

[boozeman]

I like this pick but I also feel like this could easily be your classic training camp star or draft day favorite that fizzles out after a short or underwhelming career, like Ryan Switzer.

Impossible. Deuce did not go to an inferior institution like UNC.

 

[boozeman]

If Cole Beasley can carve out a career on the NFL, I think Turpin is similarly capable.

Shrimp could run routes. Turpin not so much.

 

[Rev]

Shrimp could run routes. Turpin not so much.

I see you are coming around on Beasley. Better late than never.

 

[ZeroClub]

Turpin is a little different because he is a gadget guy. I don't know if he can really be a real NFL receiver. I don't think Vaughn is a gadget guy. I think he is a legit RB.

I agree with that, but I don't think Vaughn is a standard plug and play RB. It'll take some level of creativity to use him well.

Another way to think of it -- How would someone with no creativity (Garrett) screw things up with Vaughn?

I think Garrett would use Vaughn as a traditional RB. However, given Vaughn's size, Garrett would select only those standard plays that don't require pass protection from Vaughn. So, whenever Vaughn was in the game, the entire Western World would know that 1) the Cowboys most likely aren't passing downfield, 2) Vaughn is probably getting the ball, and 3) a poorly executed screen pass is a definite possibility. Telegraphed plays tend not to work well. Eventually, Garrett would conclude that Vaughn "isn't a good fit for this offense." Garrett would lack vision for the player. Guys like Garrett don't adjust the scheme to fit their players.

 

[boozeman]

I agree with that, but I don't think Vaughn is a standard plug and play RB. It'll take some level of creativity to use him well.

Another way to think of it -- How would someone with no creativity (Garrett) screw things up with Vaughn?

I think Garrett would use Vaughn as a traditional RB. However, given Vaughn's size, Garrett would select only those standard plays that don't require pass protection from Vaughn. So, whenever Vaughn was in the game, the entire Western World would know that 1) the Cowboys most likely aren't passing downfield, 2) Vaughn is probably getting the ball, and 3) a poorly executed screen pass is a definite possibility. Telegraphed plays tend not to work well. Eventually, Garrett would conclude that Vaughn "isn't a good fit for this offense." Garrett would lack vision for the player. Guys like Garrett don't adjust the scheme to fit their players.

I am not certain Schottenheimer’s kid is that much more creative.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

So, whenever Vaughn was in the game, the entire Western World would know that 1) the Cowboys most likely aren't passing downfield, 2) Vaughn is probably getting the ball, and 3) a poorly executed screen pass is a definite possibility.

I mean you can still pass deep with Vaugh in the game. If you blitz we have a massive advantage throwing the balk to Vaughn quickly. You could still run the ball with Vaughn. I get that blitz pickup is questionable but you can still chip with him. You just can't expect him to stand a dude up Ala Zeke. Which is not that big of deal in my opinion.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I am not certain Schottenheimer’s kid is that much more creative.

Yeah I think the major complaints with him in Seattle is that he is repetitive with his play calling and too run heavy. Luckily he won't be calling plays. But I don't remember McCarthy being that super creative either.

 

[p1_]

Yeah I think the major complaints with him in Seattle is that he is repetitive with his play calling and too run heavy. Luckily he won't be calling plays. But I don't remember McCarthy being that super creative either.

we've been told we will be run heavy. Not sure how much to believe that.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

we've been told we will be run heavy. Not sure how much to believe that.

I don't think McCarthy was ever a run heavy guy. So we shall see.

 

[Simpleton]

I think something similar to how the Chiefs used Jerick McKinnon last year would make sense, probably with slightly more carries and slightly less receptions, for a total of about 150-175 total touches, which is about 8-10 a game.

The way he's used will be a pretty good litmus test for how creative McCarthy/Schottenheimer can be.

 

[boozeman]

I think something similar to how the Chiefs used Jerick McKinnon last year would make sense, probably with slightly more carries and slightly less receptions, for a total of about 150-175 total touches, which is about 8-10 a game.

The way he's used will be a pretty good litmus test for how creative McCarthy/Schottenheimer can be.

That is the part that concerns me.

I just don't see anything close to this specialized of a role in their offenses, at least in terms of workload.

 

[Simpleton]

That is the part that concerns me.

I just don't see anything close to this specialized of a role in their offenses, at least in terms of workload.

The good thing is I don't think he needs ultra-creativity to be productive like someone like Turpin, I think you can throw him out there for 5-7 carries a game in our standard offense and still get some juice out of him.

It'll be the other 3-5 touches a game, particularly in the passing game, that will show what the offensive braintrust has. I think he could be a terror on wheel routes against certain coverages if you repeatedly show him getting dumpoffs in the flat.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Schottenheimer did have Sproles at San Diego, so he should have some idea.

 

[ravidubey]

I mean you can still pass deep with Vaugh in the game. If you blitz we have a massive advantage throwing the balk to Vaughn quickly. You could still run the ball with Vaughn. I get that blitz pickup is questionable but you can still chip with him. You just can't expect him to stand a dude up Ala Zeke. Which is not that big of deal in my opinion.

It matters quite a bit, which is why Sproles learned to pass block

One back I recall who succeeded at a high level without being much of a pass blocker was Barry Sanders, but there really aren’t others I can think of off the top. When you’re as good running the ball as Barry was, no one cared about pass protection.

But you got to wonder how much that limited the Lions at the end of the day, especially as the league became more pass-happy.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

It matters quite a bit, which is why Sproles learned to pass block

One back I recall who succeeded at a high level without being much of a pass blocker was Barry Sanders, but there really aren’t others I can think of off the top. When you’re as good running the ball as Barry was, no one cared about pass protection.

But you got to wonder how much that limited the Lions at the end of the day, especially as the league became more pass-happy.

If it makes you feel better Pollard graded out as the second best pass blocking RB in the NFL by PFF last year... Which supposedly his pass blocking was why Zeke was our two minute RB. Not saying a RB doesn't need to pass block. Just that it doesn't require a guy to do it in a physical fashion the way Zeke did.

Aaron Jones generally isn't good at it, but it doesn't matter all that much because he is such a weapon as a receiver.

Good news is if you find pass blocking in a RB to be really important, Swift who the Eagles just traded for is absolutely pathetic at it.

 

[ravidubey]

Aaron Jones generally isn't good at it, but it doesn't matter all that much because he is such a weapon as a receiver.

And he’s had the benefit of a QB that can assess the field and get the ball out quickly and accurately. Wonder how his lack of pass blocking will factor into Love’s success.

 

[Genghis Khan]

It matters quite a bit, which is why Sproles learned to pass block

One back I recall who succeeded at a high level without being much of a pass blocker was Barry Sanders, but there really aren’t others I can think of off the top. When you’re as good running the ball as Barry was, no one cared about pass protection.

But you got to wonder how much that limited the Lions at the end of the day, especially as the league became more pass-happy.

You keep harping on Vaughn's pass blocking, but where is your evidence that he can't pass block? Do you have some actual plays where you saw him fail at pass blocking? Or are you just assuming based on his size? Because if it's solely based on his size, please stop. I know you're a size queen but you don't actually know. Let's wait for some evidence.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I know you're a size queen

This made me chuckle

 

[ZeroClub]

FWIW - About 13 minutes into the Day 3 Post-Draft Press Conference, McCarthy says he believes that Vaughn can fit into the flow of the Cowboys normal 1st and 2nd down offense.

McCarthy continues: "I think that, stating the obvious, you know, as far as the protection component, you know, we gotta work together there, but there's some very distinct situational thoughts, um, and concepts that I have in mind already -- Randall Cobb-ish type things I've done in the past. So we'll definitely have opportunities for him, um, to take advantage of his productivity. I mean, he's a dynamic player."