2024 Season | Week 6 | Gameday Chatter Thread | Lions @ Cowboys | 10/13/2024

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Texas Ace

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And things will stay this way until the Joneses let go of their antiquated philosophy regarding coach hires. The Cowboys will continue to be a step or two behind when it comes to innovation because Jerry values "experienced" coaches over young creative thinking.
And it's even sillier when you consider that they don't really even value that experience and constantly undermine it by doing whatever the hell they feel like when they feel like doing it.
 

1bigfan13

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I don't think age is even the issue. Do people really think some young guy is going to overcome the culture problem here and take more control from Jerry just because he's young? If anything, it's possible Jerry runs over a rookie HC even more.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to a young guy at all. I just don't think being young actually solves the real problem here.
Yea, I guess what I'm looking for moreso than youth, are coaches that will bring innovative schemes to Dallas. It feels like we're running stuff that is a generation behind. We've been able to get away with it before because we had a decent amount of talent to make average schemes work.

Now that the talent is gone it's on the coaching to think outside the box to create deception and mismatches for their players. This staff seems completely incapable of doing that.

We should be stealing stuff that teams like the Lions, Chiefs, and Dolphins are running and incorporating it into our playbooks. Why thay's not happening is beyond me.
 

Genghis Khan

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And things will stay this way until the Joneses let go of their antiquated philosophy regarding coach hires. The Cowboys will continue to be a step or two behind when it comes to innovation because Jerry values "experienced" coaches over young creative thinking.

A few weeks ago a bunch of people on this board would have hired the Kubiak kid because he looked like a "young creative thinking" coach.

How's that look now?

The large majority of these young creative thinking coaches that get hired fail.

Hiring a HC with a proven track record isn't antiquated, it's smart.

Look at the super bowl winning coaches from the past decade.

The only one that fits the young creative thinking criteria is McVay (and by the way he's looking pretty pedestrian himself the past few years).

The rest are filled with Reid, Belichick, Arians, the elder Kubiak, and Carroll.

I would have fired McCarthy after the GB playoff game because that was an inexcusable performance. And I would fire him at the end of this season also, because it doesn't seem to be turning around.

But that doesn't erase the fact that he did a good job here and it was a good hire despite being a dreaded "experienced" (gasp) coach.

McCarthy took over a team that was cratering and not only returned them to relevance, but also accomplished something that hasn't been done around here in a long ass time, which is go to 3 straight playoffs with 12+ wins each of those seasons.

If the front office had been willing to spend money on the team even a little bit in that time, we might have gotten over the hump.
 
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Chocolate Lab

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Yea, I guess what I'm looking for moreso than youth, are coaches that will bring innovative schemes to Dallas. It feels like we're running stuff that is a generation behind. We've been able to get away with it before because we had a decent amount of talent to make average schemes work.
People can disagree, but I think it's because we're doing what Dak wants and is comfortable with. There's a reason Mike had to keep Kellen. There's a reason when Kellen was finally gone we had to slowly implement this "Texas Coast" crap instead of just going full WCO. I think Jerry wants "Dak Friendly" and that means the marquee QB has a huge say in what we do on offense.

And to be fair, we were one of the best offenses last year. But I think Dak is the reason we don't see wholesale changes. That's why I wonder if a Kubiak or someone would even be given full rein to implement his full offense anyway. Mike certainly wasn't.
 

1bigfan13

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I’m almost in support of drafting Arch Manning in a few years and willing to sell current and future picks to get him.
I'd LMAO if the Manning family refused to allow Arch play for the Cowboys.

Very very small chance of that happening, but I'd laugh if it did.
 

Texas Ace

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I'd complain about a Belichick hire. I get it, his resume is GOAT material but all I saw after Brady left was an old coach who looked out of touch with today's NFL.

Obviously one can counter with the problem in NE was the lack of roster talent. One could also point out that Belichick wouldn't be picking the players here in Dallas like he was in NE. Even acknowledging that, I'd still prefer to see them skew younger, especially if the coach has an offensive background.
Those are fair points and maybe the game has passed him by, but I'm willing to take the chance.

Here's the thing, when I think of acquiring a head coach as a Cowboys fan, I don't look at a list of what I believe are legitimately the best overall candidates because of the way things are done in Dallas.

We don't operate like a normal organization, so you have to keep that in mind when you start thinking about who you want or think we should bring in.

So taking that into account while I'm looking at options, I have to go with what I believe is our best chance for success while still operating under the unique conditions that the Cowboys as an organization present.

If I could pick anyone at all? I wouldn't pick Belichick. But I believe that given our unique and flawed hierarchical structure, Belichick stands the best chance to succeed and that's why I want him.

Lastly, the only way I think the Belichick hire would be effective here in Dallas is if the Joneses stayed the hell out of his way and allowed him to create the culture in his own eyes. We've all read enough articles and watched enough interviews to understand that the Joneses prefer not to operate in that manner.
Another fair point, but I think that he would have more control here than anybody has had since Bill Parcells because like Parcells, this is the type of coach that Jerry knows not to even go after unless he's willing to secede some control as he did when Parcells was here.

Those guys are very strong-minded, hard-nosed individuals that aren't going to be passive and just follow orders. If you go after them, you know what you're getting.

And just as he did with Parcells, I think Jerry would be willing to take take a couple steps back and let Belichick largely do what he wants and needs to do, and that's what would allow the desperately needed culture change to take effect..... Even if only temporarily.

Now if you think there is another realistic hire out there that could actually be given the autonomy, tools, and resources to succeed in Dallas under that unique environment, I'd love to know who that is.
 

Simpleton

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I'd complain about a Belichick hire. I get it, his resume is GOAT material but all I saw after Brady left was an old coach who looked out of touch with today's NFL.

Obviously one can counter with the problem in NE was the lack of roster talent. One could also point out that Belichick wouldn't be picking the players here in Dallas like he was in NE. Even acknowledging that, I'd still prefer to see them skew younger, especially if the coach has an offensive background.

Lastly, the only way I think the Belichick hire would be effective here in Dallas is if the Joneses stayed the hell out of his way and allowed him to create the culture in his own eyes. We've all read enough articles and watched enough interviews to understand that the Joneses prefer not to operate in that manner.
This is all valid but his defenses were actually still quite good after Brady left, aside from his very last season when he had one foot out the door anyway.

He couldn't find a QB and put together an elite offense, sure, but he still made the playoffs with Mac Jones and won a decent amount of games with average to shitty QB's. Dak isn't Mahomes but he's worlds better than someone like Mac Jones and enough to win at a high level if you're getting something near the Belichick of old.

I get preferring to go elsewhere but I don't get being completely opposed to Belichick. Like what exactly do we think is going to happen here?

Jerry hires Ben Johnson and rides off into the sunset and allows the organization to operate completely normally?

Obviously not, so I'm just as fine hoping Belichick still has some juice left.
 

Genghis Khan

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We should be stealing stuff that teams like the Lions, Chiefs, and Dolphins are running and incorporating it into our playbooks. Why thay's not happening is beyond me.

That has been happening, at least while Moore was here. And it didn't seem to make much difference when they needed it most.
 

Texas Ace

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Jerry hires Ben Johnson and rides off into the sunset and allows the organization to operate completely normally?
Exactly my point.

So don't go naming names that have zero chance of coming here.

You need to only consider coaches that have a realistic shot to come to Dallas and accept working under the conditions this environment presents, and one who can be successful in said environment.

Because what good is it to hire some young innovative mind if he isn't going to have the autonomy to do what he wants to do?

I think Belichick is the most realistic, good coaching option out there and I'm basing those realistic odds on the fact that I've seen Jerry hire a coach like that before.

I don't think he's as desperate now as he was back then, but I know he loves the allure of making that guy the next Cowboys coach because of everything that guy has won coupled with the fact that he knows it would make the Cowboys the talk of the NFL which is exactly what he wants.

And only a coach with that many skins on the wall is capable of getting Jerry to loosen up a bit.

To me, there really is no other option out there but this one.
 

1bigfan13

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A few weeks ago a bunch of people on this board would have hired the Kubiak kid because he looked like a "young creative thinking" coach.

How's that look now?

The large majority of these young creative thinking coaches that get hired fail.

Hiring a HC with a proven track record isn't antiquated, it's smart.

Look at the super bowl winning coaches from the past decade.

The only one that fits the young creative thinking criteria is McVay (and by the way he's looking pretty pedestrian himself the past few years).

The rest are filled with Reid, Belichick, Arians, the elder Kubiak, and Carroll.

I would have fired McCarthy after the GB playoff game because that was an inexcusable performance. And I would fire him at the end of this season also, because it doesn't seem to be turning around.

But that doesn't erase the fact that he did a good job here and it was a good hire despite being a dreaded "experienced" (gasp) coach.

McCarthy took over a team that was cratering and not only returned them to relevance, but also accomplished something that hasn't been done around here in a long ass time, which is go to 3 straight playoffs with 12+ wins each of those seasons.

If the front office had been willing to spend money on the team even a little bit in that time, we might have gotten over the hump.
I never said McCarthy was a bad coach. In fact I've always said he's mostly done a good job in Dallas but there is a cap to his success. The Cowboys get their asses handed to them in almost every big game of consequence because of the coaching predictability.

Mike McDaniels kicked their ass. Matt Lefluer kicked their ass repeatedly. Shanahan kicks their ass repeatedly. Campbell and Ben Johnson kicked their ass.

Sure there are other young coaches who don't work out but I'm tried of getting nothing but retreads in Dallas. For once I'd like to take a chance on something fresh and new.
 

Genghis Khan

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People can disagree, but I think it's because we're doing what Dak wants and is comfortable with. There's a reason Mike had to keep Kellen. There's a reason when Kellen was finally gone we had to slowly implement this "Texas Coast" crap instead of just going full WCO. I think Jerry wants "Dak Friendly" and that means the marquee QB has a huge say in what we do on offense.

And to be fair, we were one of the best offenses last year. But I think Dak is the reason we don't see wholesale changes. That's why I wonder if a Kubiak or someone would even be given full rein to implement his full offense anyway. Mike certainly wasn't.

I think if we had a more experienced o-line and a RB worth a shit the offense would look much better. I think the problems with the offense this year are way more personnel than anything else.

The scheme didn't suddenly suck one year after being one of the best offenses in the league.

We have a RT that can't block my grandmother, a disappointing rookie LT, a rapidly aging RG, and a stable of RBs that might as well be my grandmother.

This is what the front office wrought. It's very hard to make that consistently work.
 

dpf1123

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This is one of the things I didn't expect (not Martin fading) but how atrocious the offensive line was yesterday. This was with sitting Guyton and playing Smith at tackle. Steele was god awful. There was no time at all to pass and the run blocking was worse. We can't field an even average offense at this point.
 

Texas Ace

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Sure there are other young coaches who don't work out but I'm tried of getting nothing but retreads in Dallas. For once I'd like to take a chance on something fresh and new.
I'd be fine with that if that fresh and new coach was allowed to do his thing but we know that's not going to happen.

What will happen is we'll have a young and largely inexperienced HC trying to lead the most popular organization in all of sports with his balls clipped and one hand behind his back.

How is a guy like that supposed to succeed in those conditions? It'll be a mess and we'll be right back where we are right now.
 

Chocolate Lab

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To me, those are all different situations.

McDaniels... has incredible talent at the skill positions.
Lafleur... has he really kicked them repeatedly? He did in one playoff game.
Shanahan... he's a better coach than almost anyone, no doubt. But also has pretty great talent.

I'm not against a young guy at all, but just know that he could be Arthur Smith or Brandon Staley.
 

Texas Ace

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But you know what most of them are doing? They're making it further along in the playoffs than the Cowboys have been in 30 years.
They're also doing so under optimal operating conditions -- something they would not have here.

Imagine us hiring Sean McVay 5 years ago or whenever it was that he got his first gig with the Rams.

Do you think that guy today pushes back on Jerry when he tells him he wants to bring in Zeke?

Not a chance.
 
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