2021 Cowboys Draft Chatter Thread...

[Cotton]

Neither are so much better than the next tier of CBs that they are worth taking 10th overall.

That's simply not true.

 

[data]

Pretty sure it was Ivie.

Certainly worth getting excited over...

Doesnt conclusively prove Ivie, but definitely wasn’t Trysten Hill

 

[data]

Joey Ivie might have a Super Bowl ring for his brief stint with the Chiefs.

 

[Cotton]

Doesnt conclusively prove Ivie, but definitely wasn’t Trysten Hill

Good find. I could have sworn it was Hill. I was obviously wrong.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

That's simply not true.

I agree. And if there was a Kinlaw in this draft available at 10 I'd do it in a second. Give me a great Dline and solid secondary any day. But if I can't get the great Dlineman than at least give me the great secondary.

And for all the INT people who think that's how they rate a college corner, Ramsey had a grand total of 3 INTs in his college career. Surtain had 4 in his college career. INTs don't really tell that much of the story of a great corner. Surtain covers his man and does it at a high level.

 

[1bigfan13]

Doesnt conclusively prove Ivie, but definitely wasn’t Trysten Hill

Shy looks like a complete dullard. He even looks like he still eats play-doh.

 

[ravidubey]

I agree. And if there was a Kinlaw in this draft available at 10 I'd do it in a second. Give me a great Dline and solid secondary any day. But if I can't get the great Dlineman than at least give me the great secondary.

You forgot LB. Ours are f’ing terrible.

I think Tampa showed the rest of the league how to build a defense. Draft your corners in the 2nd round and save the first round for Devin White and Vita Vea. Sign your real FAs up front.

You want the QB on his back as quickly as possible. LBs impact both coverage and pass rush.

Versus the run, you’re getting pennies on the dollar by putting big capital into your CBs.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

You forgot LB. Ours are f’ing terrible.

I think Tampa showed the rest of the league how to build a defense. Draft your corners in the 2nd round and save the first round for Devin White and Vita Vea. Sign your real FAs up front.

You want the QB on his back as quickly as possible. LBs impact both coverage and pass rush.

Versus the run, you’re getting pennies on the dollar by putting big capital into your CBs.

Eh LBers are like RBs to me. Easy to find through out the draft and lots of good ones. Especially 4-3 LBers. Much like a RB, put a great line in front of them and fill in with guys who can run and cover. Put shit in front of them and they look like shit. Hell we have a first and second round pick at LBer and it has gotten us nowhere. The Rams had the best defense in the NFL last year. Secondary and Dline. They just filled in at LBer.

I didn't forget about LBer. I just don't prioritize it.

 

[ravidubey]

I actually agree on LBs, unless there’s a special talent to be had

 

[ravidubey]

Also, I really really like Surtain. I think he’s going to have a great career

We need to build front to back though, IMO.

BTW, how the fuck do we stop the Eagles from getting Devonta Smith? He is unreal.

 

[Plan9Misfit]

Also, I really really like Surtain. I think he’s going to have a great career

We need to build front to back though, IMO.

BTW, how the fuck do we stop the Eagles from getting Devonta Smith? He is unreal.

They don’t have a QB, so a stud WR is meaningless.

 

[NoDak]

Also, I really really like Surtain. I think he’s going to have a great career

We need to build front to back though, IMO.

I agree. Front to back. But there is no “front” worthy of our pick. And there is a “back” that is.

Either way, our defense is in desperate need of some help. All the way through.

 

[Simpleton]

The crux of the matter is that the front 7 talent at the top of this draft is amazingly uncertain for a variety of reasons.

You can go back through every draft over the last 10 years and there are clear cut, no brainer front 7 players who went top 10.

Gerald McCoy, Ndamukong Suh, Rolando McClain, Von Miller, Marcell Dareus, Luke Kuechly, Dion Jordan, Ezekiel Ansah, Khalil Mack, Anthony Barr, Dante Fowler, Leonard Williams, Vic Beasley, Joey Bosa, DeForest Buckner, Solomon Thomas, Bradley Chubb, Roquan Smith, Nick Bosa, Quinnen Williams, Devin White, Josh Allen, Chase Young, Derrick Brown.

There are a few busts in there but there is not a single front 7 player in this draft on the level of any of those guys, every single one of them have red flags/issues to varying degrees.

Jaelan Phillips literally retired like 2 years ago, Rousseau sat out 2020 and is a better interior pass-rusher than edge rusher, Parsons sat out 2020, has off-field/maturity issues and has only played off-ball LB for 2 years (while basically sitting out the last 1.5+ years), Owusu-Koramoah is halfway to being a SS who is probably best suited to be a LB/SS hybrid like Keanu Neal, Kwity Paye has basically no meaningful production, barely played in 2020 and lacks ideal size/length, Ojulari is probably the cleanest of the front 7 prospects but has one year of production and seems more suited to go in the late teens/early 20's, same with Christian Barmore.

Besides Surtain, Moehrig and Horn there are pretty much no defensive prospects projected to be top 20-25 picks who have put up 2-3 years of high-level production while playing in 2020, unless you want to include Owusu-Koramoah who is halfway to being a DB in the first place.

It sucks that we're in this position but it is what it is. One could easily argue that gambling on the upside of a Parsons, Phillips, Barmore or Rousseau is a better value than taking a CB like Surtain or Horn, but I totally get the flip side of the argument as well.

 

[ravidubey]

I think the draft is about projections which inherently carry risk.

By only picking players who played last year, you are cutting out a good portion of talent because you are unwilling to accept the risk of a player’s being rusty or only have a couple of years to go on.

Just because Surtain is the safest defensive pick in the 1st round doesn’t mean he’s the best.

IMO that is Micah Parsons, who compares favorably to Devin White in terms of RAS and ability. Today’s NFL requires LBs who can cover a wide area of the field to help counter TEs, pass-catching RBs, and slot WRs who’ve taken the place of fullbacks while also being able to stop the run and rush the passer in a pinch.

Those guys are rarer than CBs, and elite versions of them are even more rare.

I can tell you Jaylon Smith ain’t it. And frankly LVE is also tilting towards busting thanks to injury concerns.

 

[Simpleton]

I think the draft is about projections which inherently carry risk.

By only picking players who played last year, you are cutting out a good portion of talent because you are unwilling to accept the risk of a player’s being rusty or only have a couple of years to go on.

Just because Surtain is the safest defensive pick in the 1st round doesn’t mean he’s the best.

IMO that is Micah Parsons, who compares favorably to Devin White in terms of RAS and ability. Today’s NFL requires LBs who can cover a wide area of the field to help counter TEs, pass-catching RBs, and slot WRs who’ve taken the place of fullbacks while also being able to stop the run and rush the passer in a pinch.

Those guys are rarer than CBs, and elite versions of them are even more rare.

I can tell you Jaylon Smith ain’t it. And frankly LVE is also tilting towards busting thanks to injury concerns.

I'm not saying don't take any players who didn't play last year, I'm saying the lack of clear top end talent who are no brainer top 10 types aren't there as in almost every other year.

And it's not just that they didn't play last year, it's that they're relatively raw to begin with. Rousseau is kind of just a ball of clay in general while Parsons has only played the position for 2 years, when they play their first regular season pro game they'll be almost 2 years removed from their last real game. I'm definitely not saying don't take them, I'd be more than happy to trade down and take Rousseau in the teens/early 20's, but there is a good amount of inherent risk there.

I definitely don't mind the risk on Parsons at 10 in general but for our specific situation I don't love the idea of a guy with maturity issues/a lack of experience at the position/average processing coming in to be mentored by made man chucklefuck Smith and LVE who is probably not especially interested in bringing along a top 10 rookie when his contract is up in the air.

 

[Couchcoach]

Saw a comment from an insider that said this is the worst DT class he's ever seen. I agree we need to boost our front seven. IMO that's where you lay the foundation of your defense. But man, the pickings are mighty slim. I think there's good value in the third round and later at DT though.
To me the best way to go would be Sertain, Slater, Sewell, or Parsons. To me Pitts would be pissing away a shot at a position of need. Even though that's not the ideal way to approach it.

 

[shoop]

I agree with DTs in the mid rounds Togiai, Williams, McNeill. Just like most trade down in the first would be my preference and I think a realistic one as long as the team doesn’t seem desperate to trade down. Barring a trade down I highly prefer Surtain at 10. I worry about the team being able to develop parsons, the team won’t start Sewell over Collins or Smith, someone is taking Pitts before 10. His measurables and results are too good,

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Saw a comment from an insider that said this is the worst DT class he's ever seen. I agree we need to boost our front seven. IMO that's where you lay the foundation of your defense. But man, the pickings are mighty slim. I think there's good value in the third round and later at DT though.
To me the best way to go would be Sertain, Slater, Sewell, or Parsons. To me Pitts would be pissing away a shot at a position of need. Even though that's not the ideal way to approach it.

When is the last draft that a DT didn't go in the first round? Because that is totally possible in this draft.

Now I think Barmore will go in the first but outside of him no one else deserves it at all.

 

[shoop]

When is the last draft that a DT didn't go in the first round? Because that is totally possible in this draft.

Now I think Barmore will go in the first but outside of him no one else deserves it at all.

1998.

 

[ravidubey]

When is the last draft that a DT didn't go in the first round? Because that is totally possible in this draft.

Now I think Barmore will go in the first but outside of him no one else deserves it at all.

Barmore is what we need, though he carries some bust potential. Trade down and take him.