2017 Cowboys Draft Chatter Thread...

[ravidubey]

Maybe not. Although his height/weight could knock him down. He just doesn't have the big and long frame teams want in a pass rusher.

He fits the Steeler mold perfectly, though. Harris too.

 

[VA Cowboy]

Funny part is he could be the guy who actually goes to Dallas.

Takkarist is one of the guys there's no real consensus on. I've seen multiple projections having him anywhere from 14-30. We may have a chance at him but I think he goes before 28. I think our best bet for a pass rusher is someone like Taco Charlton or Charles Davis. There are some outlier projections for both but for the most part Taco is in the 20's range and Harris is projected by most as late first/early 2nd.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Takkarist is one of the guys there's no real consensus on. I've seen multiple projections having him anywhere from 14-30. We may have a chance at him but I think he goes before 28. I think our best bet for a pass rusher is someone like Taco Charlton or Charles Davis. There are some outlier projections for both but for the most part Taco is in the 20's range and Harris is projected by most as late first/early 2nd.

He is all over the place. I've seen one projection with him as a second rounder and I've seen some that have him long gone by our pick. I've seen Taco kind of all over the board in the first as well. Harris is probably the safest bet at 28. He is consistently projected in that range. Of course much shifting is left to do with the combine still ahead.

My hope is that somehow Derek Barnett ends up the odd man out and left at 28. But I've seen him as high as the 10-15 range.

 

[Rev]

He is all over the place. I've seen one projection with him as a second rounder and I've seen some that have him long gone by our pick. I've seen Taco kind of all over the board in the first as well. Harris is probably the safest bet at 28. He is consistently projected in that range. Of course much shifting is left to do with the combine still ahead.

My hope is that somehow Derek Barnett ends up the odd man out and left at 28. But I've seen him as high as the 10-15 range.

The only correct answer to our pass rush is Taco.

 

[BipolarFuk]

The only correct answer to our pass rush is Taco.

Maybe not the answer to the pass rush, but you can't argue with the answer to lunch and dinner.

 

[Rev]

Maybe not the answer to the pass rush, but you can't argue with the answer to lunch and dinner.

If he is successful then awesome but if he busts we get to call him Soft Taco....

 

[Jiggyfly]

He is all over the place. I've seen one projection with him as a second rounder and I've seen some that have him long gone by our pick. I've seen Taco kind of all over the board in the first as well. Harris is probably the safest bet at 28. He is consistently projected in that range. Of course much shifting is left to do with the combine still ahead.

My hope is that somehow Derek Barnett ends up the odd man out and left at 28. But I've seen him as high as the 10-15 range.

I want new DE as much as anybody but I do not want to reach for a need.

This is starting to feel like the panic when we were trying to replace Halley if a guy is still there at 28 he has some issues.

Are they real difference makers or are they Ekuban and Carver all over again?

 

[Simpleton]

I want new DE as much as anybody but I do not want to reach for a need.

This is starting to feel like the panic when we were trying to replace Halley if a guy is still there at 28 he has some issues.

Are they real difference makers or are they Ekuban and Carver all over again?

It's almost a certainty that value at DE will align with where we're picking. At the very least a guy like Charles Harris is worthy of that pick, and then if someone like Barnett, Charlton or McKinley fall, then clearly they are as well.

The real question will be if someone like an OJ Howard or Corey Davis are there, guys who are better prospects for the most part but aren't positions that we need as badly.

I don't think you have to worry about the team reaching on a DE at 28 who should be going 50.

 

[Jiggyfly]

It's almost a certainty that value at DE will align with where we're picking. At the very least a guy like Charles Harris is worthy of that pick, and then if someone like Barnett, Charlton or McKinley fall, then clearly they are as well.

The real question will be if someone like an OJ Howard or Corey Davis are there, guys who are better prospects for the most part but aren't positions that we need as badly.

I don't think you have to worry about the team reaching on a DE at 28 who should be going 50.

I di not mean reaching for a guy at 28 who should be at 50, Ekuban and Carver were picked in the correct range they just were not very good.

Not many DE's picked at the bottom of the 1st turn out to be difference makers, I guess my point is that there seems to be better value at other positions like LB Oline Safety and DT.

I need to go back and look but 28 seems to have a lot more Nick Perry's, Datone Jones, Larry English and Patrick Kerney's.

After Garret and Allen, only Barnett seems like a consistent double digit sack guy.

 

[Simpleton]

I di not mean reaching for a guy at 28 who should be at 50, Ekuban and Carver were picked in the correct range they just were not very good.

Not many DE's picked at the bottom of the 1st turn out to be difference makers, I guess my point is that there seems to be better value at other positions like LB Oline Safety and DT.

I need to go back and look but 28 seems to have a lot more Nick Perry's, Datone Jones, Larry English and Patrick Kerney's.

After Garret and Allen, only Barnett seems like a consistent double digit sack guy.

Maybe although this is a deeper class than most at DE, I wouldn't just look at past drafts and use that as a comparison. Guys like McKinley, Harris, Charlton and potentially even Lawson if he stays healthy could all be double digit guys.

This class is very weak at OT and DT at the top, so what prospects are you seeing the value at in those spots at 28?

Same with safety and LB to a lesser extent. After Hooker/Adams I don't see many, if any, first round safeties (Peppers is a hybrid and not a pure safety), and LB isn't overflowing with top prospects either. I really like Reddick because of his unique ability to pass-rush/blitz but I wouldn't be a huge fan of Jarrad Davis or McMillan at 28.

CB is the strongest position aside from DE in the first and if we don't go DE I think it's either because there is a CB we rank higher or it'll be a BPA type of situation with a TE or WR (Howard, Njoku, Davis, etc.).

 

[Jiggyfly]

Maybe although this is a deeper class than most at DE, I wouldn't just look at past drafts and use that as a comparison. Guys like McKinley, Harris, Charlton and potentially even Lawson if he stays healthy could all be double digit guys.

This class is very weak at OT and DT at the top, so what prospects are you seeing the value at in those spots at 28?

Same with safety and LB to a lesser extent. After Hooker/Adams I don't see many, if any, first round safeties (Peppers is a hybrid and not a pure safety), and LB isn't overflowing with top prospects either. I really like Reddick because of his unique ability to pass-rush/blitz but I wouldn't be a huge fan of Jarrad Davis or McMillan at 28.

CB is the strongest position aside from DE in the first and if we don't go DE I think it's either because there is a CB we rank higher or it'll be a BPA type of situation with a TE or WR (Howard, Njoku, Davis, etc.).

Like I said before I have not really studied the draft.

But from what I have read so far it does not seem to be especially deep at any spot so it seems DE's that are legit double digit guys would be long gone before 28.

Add in the past performance of DE's in that area and it makes me wary.

I guess my question is who is going to push these guys down, a run on WR oline or DT's, from what I can tell so far it seems all of these guys should be gone especially with the lack of QB's and DT's.

And the end of the day I just want to acquire the best talent instead of chasing a DE once again.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I want new DE as much as anybody but I do not want to reach for a need.

This is starting to feel like the panic when we were trying to replace Halley if a guy is still there at 28 he has some issues.

Are they real difference makers or are they Ekuban and Carver all over again?

This is a very strong DE class. The guys I'm listing are talented guys who could easily go much higher in this draft or other drafts.

This isn't panic, it's is need matching the talent of this draft. And I don't think just because we aren't getting a pass rusher in the top 5 of the draft that we should just throw our hands up and say "well can't get an elite guy now." This is a god awful draft for O-lineman for example. It's way below average for DT's. It is really deep at safety though. And it seems like an average to below average LBer class.

 

[Jiggyfly]

This is a very strong DE class. The guys I'm listing are talented guys who could easily go much higher in this draft or other drafts.

This isn't panic, it's is need matching the talent of this draft. And I don't think just because we aren't getting a pass rusher in the top 5 of the draft that we should just throw our hands up and say "well can't get an elite guy now." This is a god awful draft for O-lineman for example. It's way below average for DT's. It is really deep at safety though. And it seems like an average to below average LBer class.

If this draft is so awful at Oline and DT then all of these guys should be gone by 28, DE's are some of the most valuable guys every year.

 

[Simpleton]

Like I said before I have not really studied the draft.

But from what I have read so far it does not seem to be especially deep at any spot so it seems DE's that are legit double digit guys would be long gone before 28.

Add in the past performance of DE's in that area and it makes me wary.

I guess my question is who is going to push these guys down, a run on WR oline or DT's, from what I can tell so far it seems all of these guys should be gone especially with the lack of QB's and DT's.

And the end of the day I just want to acquire the best talent instead of chasing a DE once again.

Well there are at least 2, maybe 3 QB's, 2 RB's and 2 WR's who are all more or less locks to go before we pick, along with likely 2 TE's, which is a bit out of the ordinary. That's already 8, then there should be 2-3 OL who go before we pick, but several of those guys (Bolles and Lamp) are the "LT who project inside" types that aren't really possibilities for us. Ramczyk is probably the best pure LT, Cam Robinson is more of a RT, maybe even a OG.

So that puts us at about 11-12 players on the offensive side of the ball who should be gone before 28.

Defensively, Hooker and Adams will be gone, perhaps Peppers as well but I wouldn't be thrilled about taking a LB/S hybrid who is only like 205. At LB Foster is a top 15 lock, and I think Reddick could easily be gone before our pick, and if he isn't he should be in the consideration. Cunningham may also go before we pick, although I'm not a fan of his.

That puts us at about 16-18 players before we get into DE/CB, the two deepest positions in the 1st round.

Starting at CB you have Lattimore and Jones who are 1st round locks, and probably both Humphrey and Tabor as well. That puts you at 20-22.

Now let's go to the DL where you have Garrett, Allen and Thomas who all look like top 10-15 locks, now you're at 23-25 players.

We pick at 28 and I haven't even gotten into Barnett, Charlton, Harris, McKinley or Tim Williams (who I'd avoid). Then you also have guys like John Ross, Budda Baker and Christian McCaffrey who I didn't factor in to these numbers who could easily go before we pick.

Our pick will likely come down to a DE like Harris/McKinley vs. a CB like Humphrey vs. a LB like Reddick/Cunningham vs. a WR/TE/potential RT.

 

[Jiggyfly]

Well there are at least 2, maybe 3 QB's, 2 RB's and 2 WR's who are all more or less locks to go before we pick, along with likely 2 TE's, which is a bit out of the ordinary. That's already 8, then there should be 2-3 OL who go before we pick, but several of those guys (Bolles and Lamp) are the "LT who project inside" types that aren't really possibilities for us. Ramczyk is probably the best pure LT, Cam Robinson is more of a RT, maybe even a OG.

So that puts us at about 11-12 players on the offensive side of the ball who should be gone before 28.

Defensively, Hooker and Adams will be gone, perhaps Peppers as well but I wouldn't be thrilled about taking a LB/S hybrid who is only like 205. At LB Foster is a top 15 lock, and I think Reddick could easily be gone before our pick, and if he isn't he should be in the consideration. Cunningham may also go before we pick, although I'm not a fan of his.

That puts us at about 16-18 players before we get into DE/CB, the two deepest positions in the 1st round.

Starting at CB you have Lattimore and Jones who are 1st round locks, and probably both Humphrey and Tabor as well. That puts you at 20-22.

Now let's go to the DL where you have Garrett, Allen and Thomas who all look like top 10-15 locks, now you're at 23-25 players.

We pick at 28 and I haven't even gotten into Barnett, Charlton, Harris, McKinley or Tim Williams (who I'd avoid). Then you also have guys like John Ross, Budda Baker and Christian McCaffrey who I didn't factor in to these numbers who could easily go before we pick.

Our pick will likely come down to a DE like Harris/McKinley vs. a CB like Humphrey vs. a LB like Reddick/Cunningham vs. a WR/TE/potential RT.

All but one of those olineman should be behind double digit sack guys only 1 TE should go before a double digit sack guy.

Only 2 CB shoud go before a double digit sack guy a couple of safties should be in the discussion.

So either you believe a lot of teams will be going for need over better talent or these guys should not be considered great prospects.

I am not saying any of these guys are reaches at 28 but if they make it to 28 the expectations should be tempered, great sack guys go in the top 20 especially in a draft like this without a lot of top end talent.

Just the little bit I have read on these guys make them seem more like 6 to 8 sack guys than true difference makers.

Just something to think about.

 

[Simpleton]

All but one of those olineman should be behind double digit sack guys only 1 TE should go before a double digit sack guy.

Only 2 CB shoud go before a double digit sack guy a couple of safties should be in the discussion.

So either you believe a lot of teams will be going for need over better talent or these guys should not be considered great prospects.

I am not saying any of these guys are reaches at 28 but if they make it to 28 the expectations should be tempered, great sack guys go in the top 20 especially in a draft like this without a lot of top end talent.

Just the little bit I have read on these guys make them seem more like 6 to 8 sack guys than true difference makers.

Just something to think about.

If a DE was a lock 10-12 sack guy they wouldn't be available at 28, does that mean you never draft a DE at 28?

Obviously not.

It's about judging the talent available at one position vs. the talent at another.

As I said it's likely going to come down to a guy like McKinley/Harris vs. Humphrey/Tabor vs. Reddick/Cunningham with maybe a guy like Cam Robinson mixed in to the conversation, at which point I'd take McKinley/Harris. Perhaps you have guys like Baker or Peppers mixed in too but I'd still go with the DE over them.

And yes, I do believe teams will go for need over better talent, it happens every year and it will continue to happen every year.

Of course a DE that drops to 28 won't be a lock 10-12 sack guy, I agree with that, but that doesn't mean you don't take them. The decision comes down to what else is available, that's why I'd take someone like Corey Davis for instance, but those DE's are still good prospects who have double digit potential.

 

[Jiggyfly]

If a DE was a lock 10-12 sack guy they wouldn't be available at 28, does that mean you never draft a DE at 28?

Obviously not.

It's about judging the talent available at one position vs. the talent at another.

As I said it's likely going to come down to a guy like McKinley/Harris vs. Humphrey/Tabor vs. Reddick/Cunningham with maybe a guy like Cam Robinson mixed in to the conversation, at which point I'd take McKinley/Harris. Perhaps you have guys like Baker or Peppers mixed in too but I'd still go with the DE over them.

And yes, I do believe teams will go for need over better talent, it happens every year and it will continue to happen every year.

Of course a DE that drops to 28 won't be a lock 10-12 sack guy, I agree with that, but that doesn't mean you don't take them. The decision comes down to what else is available, that's why I'd take someone like Corey Davis for instance, but those DE's are still good prospects who have double digit potential.

We are mostly on the same page, I was more pushing back on the narrative that pick 28 was going to be the answer to our pass rush woes.

And if it was me I would probably lean against ever taking a DE at 28 because that is usually where you find above average talent at lesser positions like RT, LB and guard.

I am not one of these every 1st rounder has to be a all pro, which seems to be a knock against Jones but I would much rather get a Jones than a Perry, Ekuban or Spears for that matter.

 

[Simpleton]

We are mostly on the same page, I was more pushing back on the narrative that pick 28 was going to be the answer to our pass rush woes.

And if it was me I would probably lean against ever taking a DE at 28 because that is usually where you find above average talent at lesser positions like RT, LB and guard.

I am not one of these every 1st rounder has to be a HR which seems to be a knock against Jones but I would much rather get a Jones than a Perry, Ekuban or Spears for that matter.

Yea I mean I don't think just the draft is going to transform our 2017 pass rush either, that's why I'd take a long look at a guy like Melvin Ingram if we want to take advantage of this window where Prescott is on a rookie deal.

To me it's more about consistently accumulating talent and eventually you'll look up in 2019 or 2020 and we'll have a legitimate pass rush to go along with a 25-26 year old QB, elite 24 year old RB and several elite OL who are still in their prime at about 29-30. You have to start somewhere and even a few good but not elite, 8 sack types like Bruce Irvin or Everson Griffen could be the difference between a Super Bowl appearance or not in the next 3-5 years.

I know what you're saying about what is more or less a market inefficiency where certain positions are over drafted and you can find better talent at more overlooked positions late in the 1st, but that's on a case by case basis. The strength of this year's DE class at the top makes it a bit different because I think a guy like Harris could be a top 20 or so talent, but he could easily be pushed down to the end of the 1st/early 2nd.

 

[VA Cowboy]

He is all over the place. I've seen one projection with him as a second rounder and I've seen some that have him long gone by our pick. I've seen Taco kind of all over the board in the first as well. Harris is probably the safest bet at 28. He is consistently projected in that range. Of course much shifting is left to do with the combine still ahead.

My hope is that somehow Derek Barnett ends up the odd man out and left at 28. But I've seen him as high as the 10-15 range.

I've seen a few have Barnett slipping towards our range in the first but the majority have him in the teens like you said. I'd like to see Barnett or Takkarist fall to us but if not I think we have a good chance of at least getting someone like Taco or Harris who would be solid picks at 28. Worst case is there's a run on all the DE's, but even then like Simpleton mentioned, that would probably knock OJ Howard or Davis to us who may not be as big of a need but would be great picks at that point in the draft.

 

[Simpleton]

I've seen a few have Barnett slipping towards our range in the first but the majority have him in the teens like you said. I'd like to see Barnett or Takkarist fall to us but if not I think we have a good chance of at least getting someone like Taco or Harris who would be solid picks at 28. Worst case is there's a run on all the DE's, but even then like Simpleton mentioned, that would probably knock OJ Howard or Davis to us who may not be as big of a need but would be great picks at that point in the draft.

If he doesn't test well at the Combine I wouldn't be surprised if he was there at 28, his lack of explosiveness, athleticism, and change of direction is evident when you watch him in college, although that wouldn't deter me from taking him.