Archer: Like Pats, Cowboys have to do more with less

Clay_Allison · Jan 13, 2014

mschmidt64 said:
I have said many times that there are definitely good coaches out there and it is Jones' job to find them. Perhaps McCoy is one, though I certainly did not predict it.

However, I have zero faith in Jones taking coordinators and turning them into good head coaches given his proven track record of failure in that regard. There are ones worth pursuing -- but they generally come with a label of "can't miss" attached to them, like Rex Ryan did. In fact, I would say the same applies to potential head coaches from any venue, for us, ie, Jim Harbaugh was another "can't miss" head coaching prospect, though he came from college not from an NFL coordinator spot.

Those are the guys who will have the pedigree (and the pull) to prevent themselves from being complete flops here. I would also point out that just because McCoy succeeded in San Diego doesn't mean he'd succeed with the circus in Dallas. McCoy was not that type of HC prospect and there just aren't any of those types available this year, unlike last year when an Andy Reid was available (frankly, Garrett was once actually a hot name, though not a can't miss one.... our failure in that regard developing Garrett here when Baltimore, a team who continues to churn out quality staff again and again, wanted him.... kinda indicates that the environment is at least partially at fault).

I'm not willing to pull the trigger on a complete unknown here. I either want someone who comes with a quality guarantee or I want an established guy who I know can get us over the hump. I don't believe that the difference between Garrett's mediocrity and some other coach's slightly better mediocrity (or slightly worse, though everyone's anger right now doesn't allow them to acknowledge that possibility) is enough to justify the coaching change as I do actually think having the stability in place is good for the team.

And last but very much not least, I especially do not want to lock myself into the next Chan Gailey, when convention and Jerry Jones' personality will mandate that he MUST BE GIVEN TWO OR THREE SEASONS, and then miss out when Rex Ryan gets fired next year or Sean Payton decides that he wants to move home to Dallas or the next big name from the college scene indicates his willingness to come to the pros, because hey.... we have to give our Jay Gruden clone a chance to succeed.

Nope. Sorry. For all of those reasons, it's not a good idea to fire Garrett right now. And the fact that Jay Gruden, Mike Munchak, and Mike Zimmer are the names on everyone's short list right now should make you guys stop and think.

All the options right now are likely not good enough to turn a Jerry Jones owned team into a Super Bowl contender. When I find someone who is likely good enough to do that, then I'll make the move. Obvious names like that come along every season or two, it's not rare.

I will be more than willing to fire Garrett when I hear a name I like. The difference between our positions is frankly not as wide as it seems and most of the arguing is due to obvious hyperbole on the part of the anti-Garrett crowd and my inability to let it go uncontested.

You say you liked Jim Harbaugh, but Roman and Shaw apparently suck in your opinion despite being part of the same success and being able to draw from the same pool of coaches.

Smitty · Jan 13, 2014

Clay_Allison said:
You say you liked Jim Harbaugh, but Roman and Shaw apparently suck in your opinion despite being part of the same success and being able to draw from the same pool of coaches.

I've never said they suck. I don't really know enough about Shaw. Roman would be probably too unknown for me to pull the trigger at this point.

NoDak · Jan 13, 2014

mschmidt64 said:
However, I have zero faith in Jones taking coordinators and turning them into good head coaches given his proven track record of failure in that regard.

How about taking so-so position coaches with very little experience and making them a coordinator, then into a HC? You seem to have an affinity for those types.

Cotton · Jan 13, 2014

I was wondering how this thread got 22 responses already and then I saw Smitty's first post and was like, Oh...

Deuce · Jan 13, 2014

mschmidt64 said:
I've never said they suck. I don't really know enough about Shaw. Roman would be probably too unknown for me to pull the trigger at this point.

Considering Gruden and Cowher have had more than one opportunity to return and don't look interested, I don't know who you're holding out for. Certainly nobody currently in the league is at risk of losing their job next offseason that id want.

So then options are college coaches like Shaw or a coordinator.

boozeman · Jan 13, 2014

mschmidt64 said:
I'm not offended, I was just mocking your dumb joke.

And I'll stop "sucking his dick" just as soon as there are legit options to replace him not named Jay Gruden and Mike Zimmer.

There are very few candidates you would ever approve of who Jones would also feel comfortable bringing in.

Smitty · Jan 14, 2014

boozeman said:
There are very few candidates you would ever approve of who Jones would also feel comfortable bringing in.

That is true, and therefore it's also most likely true that our next hire isn't going to be a guy who can get us over the hump. Probably another guy we'll be running off in 3 years.

For me personally, until I see a guy that I suspect that will not be the case, I'm not in favor of making the move. I don't want musical head coaches anymore.

As I said to Deuce, there are certainly guys who I don't recognize are good that might end up being good, like McCoy, but the chances are far greater that we get a flop.

Rev · Jan 14, 2014

Deuce said:
Last offseason Mike McCoy "wasn't a real option" for you and he managed to turn that team around in year one and win a playoff game. Hell, his halftime adjustments yesterday put them in position to possibly upset the #1 seed.

Maybe you shouldn't be knocking the unknown candidates in favor of a proven failure.

Well played, sir.

NoDak · Jan 14, 2014

Yeah, let's not take a chance of catching lightning in a bottle. Because we don't know for 100% SURE if a guy will be a good coach.

Let's just stay spinning our wheels with a guy who has proven to us over years that he isn't good enough.

Smitty · Jan 14, 2014

NoDak said:
Yeah, let's not take a chance of catching lightning in a bottle. Because we don't know for 100% SURE if a guy will be a good coach.

Let's just stay spinning our wheels with a guy who has proven to us over years that he isn't good enough.

Maybe you missed the part where I'm also keeping it open for making a move when the next franchise head coach like a Harbaugh does become available.

I'm not saying stick with Garrett forever, just that these options aren't right for us.

Approaching it that way is much smarter than hoping Jerry catches lightning in a bottle, which we already know he won't. Our only hope is the obvious move, the Parcells.

And those types come around ever 2-3 seasons. If there's not one this offseason, there will be next offseason, like there was last offseason.

But no... let's just let Jerry role the dice again and hope this time he turns a Mike McCoy into a franchise head coach, despite the fact that he tried and whiffed with Chan Gailey, Dave Campo, Wade Phillips, and Jason Garrett, thanks in no small part to the dysfunctional environment he places them in.

0 for 4, but maybe this time it will work out.

Smitty · Jan 14, 2014

Deuce said:
Considering Gruden and Cowher have had more than one opportunity to return and don't look interested, I don't know who you're holding out for. Certainly nobody currently in the league is at risk of losing their job next offseason that id want.

So then options are college coaches like Shaw or a coordinator.

I'd take Rex Ryan here in a heartbeat. He could be gone next year.

Or, we could miss out on him while we let the Mike Zimmer trainwreck unfold for another 2 seasons.

EZ22 · Jan 14, 2014

mschmidt64 said:
HA HA HA

NoDak · Jan 14, 2014

mschmidt64 said:
Maybe you missed the part where I'm also keeping it open for making a move when the next franchise head coach like a Harbaugh does become available.

I'm not saying stick with Garrett forever, just that these options aren't right for us.

Approaching it that way is much smarter than hoping Jerry catches lightning in a bottle, which we already know he won't. Our only hope is the obvious move, the Parcells.

And those types come around ever 2-3 seasons. If there's not one this offseason, there will be next offseason, like there was last offseason.

But no... let's just let Jerry role the dice again and hope this time he turns a Mike McCoy into a franchise head coach, despite the fact that he tried and whiffed with Chan Gailey, Dave Campo, Wade Phillips, and Jason Garrett, thanks in no small part to the dysfunctional environment he places them in.

0 for 4, but maybe this time it will work out.

Bullshit. You can't sit on a proven loser coach for fear of a good one coming free later. You don't know if and when that will be. Your insistence on waiting for the proven coach is a weak mask for not wanting to let go of the red headed disgrace.

Btw, did you know Harbaugh was a franchise coach when he was available? Honestly? What about Pete Carroll? If I remember correctly, people were laughing at the Seahawks for hiring him...

Garrett has proven he can't get it done. That is not debatable, no matter how hard you try. To hang on to him ON THE CHANCE this super coach might shake free somewhere down the line is retarded.

boozeman · Jan 14, 2014

mschmidt64 said:
I'd take Rex Ryan here in a heartbeat. He could be gone next year.

Or, we could miss out on him while we let the Mike Zimmer trainwreck unfold for another 2 seasons.

Hopefully the Vikings space us from Zimmer.

And that is not a knock on him. He could actually surprise everyone and turn out okay.

We just do not need anyone that has worked for Jerry in the past. That is what a big problem Garrett is.

Jerry is comfortable with him and Garrett is content being called out as a trainee head coach.

boozeman · Jan 14, 2014

mschmidt64 said:
I'd take Rex Ryan here in a heartbeat. He could be gone next year.

Or, we could miss out on him while we let the Mike Zimmer trainwreck unfold for another 2 seasons.

Hopefully the Vikings save us from Zimmer.

And that is not a knock on him. He could actually surprise everyone and turn out okay.

We just do not need anyone that has worked for Jerry in the past. That is what a big problem Garrett is.

Jerry is comfortable with him and Garrett is content being called out as a trainee head coach.

Rev · Jan 14, 2014

You can say that again.

Deuce · Jan 14, 2014

mschmidt64 said:
Approaching it that way is much smarter than hoping Jerry catches lightning in a bottle, which we already know he won't. Our only hope is the obvious move, the Parcells.

I would say Jones already hit lightning in a bottle once with Johnson. Who says he can't get lucky again?

L.T. Fan · Jan 14, 2014

Rev said:
You can say that again.

Deuce · Jan 14, 2014

Jerry Jones has hired, what? 7 HC's since taking over the team? I would say at least 2 of those are considered successful tenures (cutting FJ slack cause he retooled the roster and set them up for success.)

Unless your name is the Pittsburgh Steelers, I would say that's a decent percentage as far as finding a decent coach. At least average if not better.

Smitty · Jan 14, 2014

NoDak said:
Bullshit. You can't sit on a proven loser coach for fear of a good one coming free later. You don't know if and when that will be.

Sure you can. It's as easy as not firing a coach for one who isn't likely to be better, as in.... any of the guys getting play right now.

Your insistence on waiting for the proven coach is a weak mask for not wanting to let go of the red headed disgrace.

It is not. I would have fired Garrett for Reid last year and I'll state the same as soon as a coach I like is available. The fact that the only thing you've got is to resort to questioning my motives is what is disgraceful.

Btw, did you know Harbaugh was a franchise coach when he was available? Honestly?

Yes. Everyone had a huge boner for Harbaugh.

What about Pete Carroll? If I remember correctly, people were laughing at the Seahawks for hiring him...

No, I did not think Carroll would be good after his previous NFL experience. I admit that by passing on guys I'm not sure about, I will miss some good coaches, but given Jerry's track record, I'm more likely to be passing on bad coaches.

Garrett has proven he can't get it done. That is not debatable, no matter how hard you try.

I am ready to move on from Garrett for someone who I believe can get it done.

I do not believe Jay Gruden or Mike Zimmer can get it done here. I frankly think their odds are not as good as Garrett's are, even, given that it would mean changing schemes on one or both sides of the ball again with aging personnel.

So I won't make that trade off.

If I was gonna completely blow up the entire team.... trade Romo, Ware, and Witten, cut a bunch of other dead weight.... then I might take a shot on a complete unknown.... but it still wouldn't be Gruden, Zimmer, or Munchak.

It might be Greg Roman.

To hang on to him ON THE CHANCE this super coach might shake free somewhere down the line is retarded.

It's not. A franchise HC is our only hope for resuscitating this franchise. It would be like deliberately bottoming out for a chance at a franchise player in basketball.

Sometimes that's the best play.

That is the case here.

Archer: Like Pats, Cowboys have to do more with less

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