**2023 Cowboys Pre-Draft Thread**

[boozeman]

Yea Hooker would be the most likely, maybe one of the CB's or Branch.

I don't think the CBs are part of the equation. Branch although he would be bad ass is about right.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Yea Hooker would be the most likely, maybe one of the CB's or Branch.

Yeah its hard to say. I love trading down. I want more picks. My problem is I don't want to trade out of the first round unless it's for some serious picks. I do think there is significant value in a fifth year option. So for me to give that up I need to be getting more than a third round pick in return. No one in the first round behind us is moving up for Hooker.

Who knows what position someone would move up for though. A team like the Chiefs always seem willing to go up. Maybe if the right DE is there or even a WR. Could be OT. It's kind of hard to say but they are a team that if they like a guy they aren't afraid to go up for him.

I mean was anybody thinking they would trade up for Trent Motherfucking McDuffie last year?

 

[Simpleton]

I don't think the CBs are part of the equation. Branch although he would be bad ass is about right.

If there's a run on CB's in the teens/early 20's where the top 4 are off the board I could see someone getting trigger happy for someone like Forbes.

It's a bit of a stretch but I think it's the most likely scenario outside of Hooker.

 

[ravidubey]

Athletically he seems to be a notch above Witten. Maybe it was the way he was used in the Irish offense. I have to defer to @Tony D on this one.

As someone pointed out earlier TE might be one of the toughest positions to grade, especially based on athletics.

That ability to run great routes and create separation naturally from NFL linebackers based on stride and technique combined with the ability to dominant safeties physically— really hard to gauge.

At least with Kyle Pitts you knew you had this ridiculous catch radius to trump a lot of that, but most other TE’s seem to be a crapshoot. It scares me taking that position so early

 

[Cowboysrock55]

If there's a run on CB's in the teens/early 20's where the top 4 are off the board I could see someone getting trigger happy for someone like Forbes.

It's a bit of a stretch but I think it's the most likely scenario outside of Hooker.

I could see someone fall in love with Banks. If Murphy for some reason falls it wouldn't shock me for someone to be eager for him. It just all depends who falls. Of course it has to be someone Dallas isn't as high on.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

That ability to run great routes and create separation naturally from NFL linebackers based on stride and technique combined with the ability to dominant safeties physically— really hard to gauge.

This my concern with Mayer. He was great in college. But he wasn't separating. He was just out muscling guys. I just wonder in the NFL against bigger, faster and stronger if those windows won't get closed out.

But at least he did it all in college. He wasn't just a big WR out there doing WR things while being called a TE. The problem with a lot of guys are that they aren't ready to block in the NFL. And so it takes TEs a year or two to do much in the NFL.

 

[boozeman]

As someone pointed out earlier TE might be one of the toughest positions to grade, especially based on athletics.

That ability to run great routes and create separation naturally from NFL linebackers based on stride and technique combined with the ability to dominant safeties physically— really hard to gauge.

At least with Kyle Pitts you knew you had this ridiculous catch radius to trump a lot of that, but most other TE’s seem to be a crapshoot. It scares me taking that position so early

I don't necessarily want it in the first at all.

I think Ferguson can be good. Hendershot is an eh maybe. I recognize the "need" there.

But do we really need to invest again at the position?

We just shed Schultz's salary, which was basically Witten's before that. We also dumped money into Jarwin.

There are plenty of TEs that can be had in the 2nd and 3rd that will do.

If the whole idea is the next Kelce or a freak like Washington, I am fine.

Fixating on a guy like Kincaid is foolish. Meyer is good enough, but he better be BPA.

 

[Simpleton]

I could see someone fall in love with Banks. If Murphy for some reason falls it wouldn't shock me for someone to be eager for him. It just all depends who falls. Of course it has to be someone Dallas isn't as high on.

Yea but I don't see Banks even making it to our pick, that's the scenario where maybe someone gets desperate for a Forbes or some such.

As far as Murphy, I'd be pissed if we didn't just take him ourselves, but I also read that most of the league looks at 20 to Seattle as his floor, which makes sense given that he has ideal size, ran a 4.51 and produced at a high level.

 

[boozeman]

This my concern with Mayer. He was great in college. But he wasn't separating. He was just out muscling guys. I just wonder in the NFL against bigger, faster and stronger if those windows won't get closed out.

But at least he did it all in college. He wasn't just a big WR out there doing WR things while being called a TE. The problem with a lot of guys are that they aren't ready to block in the NFL. And so it takes TEs a year or two to do much in the NFL.

He is the most well rounded TE in the class, I don't see that as debatable.

 

[boozeman]

Yea but I don't see Banks even making it to our pick, that's the scenario where maybe someone gets desperate for a Forbes or some such.

As far as Murphy, I'd be pissed if we didn't just take him ourselves, but I also read that most of the league looks at 20 to Seattle as his floor, which makes sense given that he has ideal size, ran a 4.51 and produced at a high level.

I have read things about Banks going higher. I can see how he is better than others like Forbes.

The corner class gets interesting in the 2nd. You will see some reaches.

To me, Murphy is just that guy. That big college pass rusher that everyone latches onto.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

As far as Murphy, I'd be pissed if we didn't just take him ourselves, but I also read that most of the league looks at 20 to Seattle as his floor, which makes sense given that he has ideal size, ran a 4.51 and produced at a high level.

I could see us preferring McDonald to Murphy. But that would be the only reason why. But that's why I said, it would have to be a guy we aren't high on just because I think Dallas in general is open to a lot of positions.

I mention Banks because I don't think he will make it to us. My guess is a guy other teams want to trade up for is going to be a guy who falls. My assumption is the top 4 corners (including Banks) is gone by our pick. I actually kind of hope it so we aren't tempted.

 

[boozeman]

I could see us preferring McDonald to Murphy. But that would be the only reason why. But that's why I said, it would have to be a guy we aren't high on just because I think Dallas in general is open to a lot of positions.

McDonald gives me Lawrence vibes.

Murphy, not so much.

 

[Simpleton]

As someone pointed out earlier TE might be one of the toughest positions to grade, especially based on athletics.

That ability to run great routes and create separation naturally from NFL linebackers based on stride and technique combined with the ability to dominant safeties physically— really hard to gauge.

At least with Kyle Pitts you knew you had this ridiculous catch radius to trump a lot of that, but most other TE’s seem to be a crapshoot. It scares me taking that position so early

I think that was me, it's really difficult because those things that you mention are what make TE's great receivers at the NFL level, along with the ability to process coverages and feel where to sit down in coverage holes. The elite TE's rarely ever just physically dominate guys on 30-yard go routes, they're mostly working within about 8-15 yards of the LOS between the numbers where it's congested. Pitts is a different story because he's basically just a gargantuan WR who lines up at TE sometimes.

So on one hand I think the physical freaks who are pseudo-WR's like Evan Engram and Njoku come into the league with great athleticism but without that advanced processing/feel to work the intermediate parts of the field in congested areas, but on the other do you really want to spend a 1st on a guy who is only a solid athlete?

Throw in the fact that guys like that can rarely ever block and it's very difficult to evaluate.

It's a catch-22, the long and short of it is that I don't think you can heavily weight evaluations on pure athletic ability at TE as much as you can at the other skill positions.

For what it's worth, I think Mayer and even Kincaid have those subtle traits in spades.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

McDonald gives me Lawrence vibes.

Murphy, not so much.

It might just be past failures with Clemson DEs but while Murphys testing is outstanding it just doesn't feel like his play matches it. McDonald was poorly used at Iowa State and still produced at a high level. I think it has made him a better player though as a result.

 

[Simpleton]

McDonald gives me Lawrence vibes.

Murphy, not so much.

I'd be surprised if McDonald could hold up against the run like Lawrence unless he puts on 20 lbs, which is plausible, but then you wonder how that would impact his burst which is his best trait.

I think Murphy gets a bad rap and I'm not really sure why, I don't think he's much worse of a prospect than someone like Tyree Wilson, and I sure as shit would take him over Van Ness.

He impressed me every time I watched Clemson, he has ideal size and ran a 4.51.

I love McDonald though, he ripped up Wright at the Senior Bowl.

 

[Simpleton]

This my concern with Mayer. He was great in college. But he wasn't separating. He was just out muscling guys. I just wonder in the NFL against bigger, faster and stronger if those windows won't get closed out.

But at least he did it all in college. He wasn't just a big WR out there doing WR things while being called a TE. The problem with a lot of guys are that they aren't ready to block in the NFL. And so it takes TEs a year or two to do much in the NFL.

The thing with Mayer is he was great in contested situations and has arguably the best hands/ball tracking of any pass catcher in the draft. He's still going to be 6-4, 250 when he gets to the NFL and the guys he'll be going up against aren't going to be significantly bigger than who he went up against in college. They'll be faster and stronger but he's not going to be matching up against 6-3, 230 lb. safeties every week or anything, those guys are still going to be about 6-1, 210, so he's still going to have a significant size advantage.

From watching some of his college stuff recently it seems he's mastered the subtle art of hand-fighting at the break point of routes and manipulating leverage that Witten used so masterfully for so long to get open even when he isn't moving that fast.

On one hand you could argue that he may not have significant room for improvement, but on the other I'd say that it's hard to imagine someone with that technical ability, along with his size/hands, not being able to play the position at a high level.

 

[Tony D]

Athletically he seems to be a notch above Witten. Maybe it was the way he was used in the Irish offense. I have to defer to @Tony D on this one.

I'll be honest, I think his college numbers are inflated some. ND hasn't had the greatest WR's the past few seasons(that's about to change) nor the QB's to get them the ball. He was the main focus for all defenses to stop and he still produced at a high level so maybe there's something to be said for that vs his numbers being inflated.

Mayer has been the #1, #2 and #3 option as a receiver the past few seasons. Is that a reason why you never saw him wide open at ND? Security blanket for Pyne last season. That being said he's a stud who will have a long NFL career as a starting TE from day 1.

I've said before in this thread that I thought this might be a bit high for him, but seeing all the other TE's projected it may not be high for him at all.

Again, if you want a quality NFL starting TE for the next 10 seasons at #26 this is your guy. He's going to be a very good all-around TE for you. I think he's athletic enough. He definitely has the hands. Anything in his radius he will come down with. He can block. He has the intangibles, he'll be a team leader in no time. He's tough as shit, too. He'll take on and carry defenders in the NFL just like he did at ND.

If you knew he would put up Mark Andrews type numbers would you take him at 26? Not sure Andrews is that much bigger or more athletic, but I could be wrong. Might be a good comp.

 

[Simpleton]

I'll be honest, I think his college numbers are inflated some. ND hasn't had the greatest WR's the past few seasons(that's about to change) nor the QB's to get them the ball. He was the main focus for all defenses to stop and he still produced at a high level so maybe there's something to be said for that vs his numbers being inflated.

Mayer has been the #1, #2 and #3 option as a receiver the past few seasons. Is that a reason why you never saw him wide open at ND? Security blanket for Pyne last season. That being said he's a stud who will have a long NFL career as a starting TE from day 1.

I've said before in this thread that I thought this might be a bit high for him, but seeing all the other TE's projected it may not be high for him at all.

Again, if you want a quality NFL starting TE for the next 10 seasons at #26 this is your guy. He's going to be a very good all-around TE for you. I think he's athletic enough. He definitely has the hands. Anything in his radius he will come down with. He can block. He has the intangibles, he'll be a team leader in no time. He's tough as shit, too. He'll take on and carry defenders in the NFL just like he did at ND.

If you knew he would put up Mark Andrews type numbers would you take him at 26? Not sure Andrews is that much bigger or more athletic, but I could be wrong. Might be a good comp.

Agreed all around, I think Andrews is a bit more athletic but was nowhere near as good a blocker coming out, although I think a Mark Andrews career (top 3-4 TE in the league for several years, several Pro Bowls but not a future HOF'er) is a reasonable expectation.

 

[p1_]

I'll be honest, I think his college numbers are inflated some. ND hasn't had the greatest WR's the past few seasons(that's about to change) nor the QB's to get them the ball. He was the main focus for all defenses to stop and he still produced at a high level so maybe there's something to be said for that vs his numbers being inflated.

Mayer has been the #1, #2 and #3 option as a receiver the past few seasons. Is that a reason why you never saw him wide open at ND? Security blanket for Pyne last season. That being said he's a stud who will have a long NFL career as a starting TE from day 1.

I've said before in this thread that I thought this might be a bit high for him, but seeing all the other TE's projected it may not be high for him at all.

Again, if you want a quality NFL starting TE for the next 10 seasons at #26 this is your guy. He's going to be a very good all-around TE for you. I think he's athletic enough. He definitely has the hands. Anything in his radius he will come down with. He can block. He has the intangibles, he'll be a team leader in no time. He's tough as shit, too. He'll take on and carry defenders in the NFL just like he did at ND.

If you knew he would put up Mark Andrews type numbers would you take him at 26? Not sure Andrews is that much bigger or more athletic, but I could be wrong. Might be a good comp.

How has NDs ground game been ? Does he excel there as well?

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Agreed all around, I think Andrews is a bit more athletic but was nowhere near as good a blocker coming out, although I think a Mark Andrews career (top 3-4 TE in the league for several years, several Pro Bowls but not a future HOF'er) is a reasonable expectation.

Andrew's looks more athletic. But I think their SPARQ or whatever is similar.

On the other hand guys like Kittle, Kelce and even Hockenson blow them away. But I guess that depends on what you think of the whole SPARQ thing.