The Moving Thread

Chocolate Lab

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Idk, it’s in Sulpher and I was just told we were going to “Little Niagara Falls”.

It was very nice for the early part of the day, then it got pretty crowded towards the later afternoon.
I looked it up, I guess Little Niagara is a place I've never been. Looks cool, though. Yet another Oklahoma spot that looks nothing like the dry, dusty plains most people think of when they think of OK.

You should hit Robbers Cave state park sometime, I don't think that's too far from you. Cool rock face cliffs. Another place you wouldn't think would be in OK.
 

Smitty

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I sold my house right before the boom and made $30k, would have made like $150k if I sold it today. Instead I'm stuck renting because prices shot up right after I sold.

It's a sad couple years for Smitty.
 

Chocolate Lab

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I sold my house right before the boom and made $30k, would have made like $150k if I sold it today. Instead I'm stuck renting because prices shot up right after I sold.

It's a sad couple years for Smitty.
I think they're about to fall hard again, so hopefully you can get back in.
 

Smitty

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I think they're about to fall hard again, so hopefully you can get back in.
They keep saying no, no, no, the housing market isn't going to crash, they haven't built enough in the past decade.

Well there are only so many California and New York transplants with $500k in cash after selling their own who can put 60% down on an $800k house.

If you don't have hundreds of thousands of dollars in liquid cash I don't know how you are buying a 2500 square foot house in non-rural North Carolina right now. If you have two kids, how much smaller can you go? Anything over 2200 square feet here is damn near half a million, or, if you want an actual nice neighborhood, probably over $600k.

It has to come down. Yeah, there are lots of IT workers here making over six figures but my salary isn't exactly small and I can't touch those properties. How are all the non-tech residents affording real estate and the escalating rents that accompany it?

I just don't buy that "it's only going to plateau."
 

Smitty

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On the other hand, while I had to take a paycut for a period of time because bankruptcies slowed, I still have hope that just about everyone is about to go broke and I should see a nice uptick in business. And my youngest is now 4 years old and in pre-K, just about time for the wife to go back to work too, Smitty could be about to see a nice change in finances. If housing comes down a bit one of them there 3000 sq foot McMansions with a home office and a finished basement and a fenced in back yard could be in the cards after all.
 

Chocolate Lab

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They keep saying no, no, no, the housing market isn't going to crash, they haven't built enough in the past decade.

Well there are only so many California and New York transplants with $500k in cash after selling their own who can put 60% down on an $800k house.
It might not crash, but it will fall. It's as simple as interest rates. They haven't gone up this much in a long time, plus there are a lot of ugly signs for the economy in the pipeline as far as layoffs, etc.

I'm sure prices won't fall as much in a popular place like where you are as they will in the states people are fleeing, but they'll fall.

And on seeing your bankruptcy post... Yeah, I think you're about to do well.
 

Cotton

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On the other hand, while I had to take a paycut for a period of time because bankruptcies slowed, I still have hope that just about everyone is about to go broke and I should see a nice uptick in business. And my youngest is now 4 years old and in pre-K, just about time for the wife to go back to work too, Smitty could be about to see a nice change in finances. If housing comes down a bit one of them there 3000 sq foot McMansions with a home office and a finished basement and a fenced in back yard could be in the cards after all.
Smitty straight up hoping people go broke. :lol
 

1bigfan13

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I thought that too. He's going broke because people in general are doing better. He needs them to go broke so he can do better.
Wasn't this kind of the mentality of oil field workers about 6-8 years ago? IIRC, wasn't there a big boom in the oil and natural gas sector that led to tons of high paying jobs in places like ND but then the price of oil and gas started dropping quickly and a lot of those great paying jobs quickly went away.

Am I remembering that correctly?
 

NoDak

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Wasn't this kind of the mentality of oil field workers about 6-8 years ago? IIRC, wasn't there a big boom in the oil and natural gas sector that led to tons of high paying jobs in places like ND but then the price of oil and gas started dropping quickly and a lot of those great paying jobs quickly went away.

Am I remembering that correctly?
Kind of. There were tons of high paying jobs that people from all over came for. Once it started slowing down, some left but there are still a bunch here working. There just isn't nearly as much job skipping for the deadbeats as there was during the height of the boom. Companies can be more selective as to who they hire.

Guess I don't see how that has anything to do with needing somebody else to fail so you can prosper, tho.
 

1bigfan13

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Guess I don't see how that has anything to do with needing somebody else to fail so you can prosper, tho.
The connection I made was when the average price of gas for US citizens was over $3.5/ gallon people working those oil and gas jobs were making a killing. But as soon as the price of gas dropped to around the $2.5/ gallon mark a lot of those great jobs went away.

Basically it felt like:
Higher prices at the pump: good for oil industry workers
Lower prices at the pump: bad for those who took up jobs during the oil boom
 

NoDak

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The connection I made was when the average price of gas for US citizens was over $3.5/ gallon people working those oil and gas jobs were making a killing. But as soon as the price of gas dropped to around the $2.5/ gallon mark a lot of those great jobs went away.

Basically it felt like:
Higher prices at the pump: good for oil industry workers
Lower prices at the pump: bad for those who took up jobs during the oil boom
Yeah, a lot of those jobs are gone now. Even though the price of oil is at a good level. You'd think things would still be rocking along. Gas prices are back up to shitty high levels but for some strange reason, there is not nearly as much drilling and production going on, providing those jobs.


Something along the way over the past couple years changed...
 

Smitty

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Smitty straight up hoping people go broke. :lol
They are gonna do it whether I hope or not, it’s fair for me to wish they would get on with it already when they are out there running up the prices on houses and cars they can’t truly afford so that I can’t afford them either.

It’s like a conservative friend asked me one time, do you feel bad helping people skimp out on paying their debts? No. I help the market correct itself. If you don’t want to be left holding the bag then don’t make stupid investments in people who aren’t likely to repay you without taking collateral. It was your own profit motive that led you to lend that money; it’s like investing in a stock and you lost your gamble as a creditor. It’s the free market at work and nothing less.

And when you have assholes signing loans with half their monthly income going to mortgages they can’t afford I do not have to feel bad about fixing their problems for a fee.
 

Smitty

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I thought that too. He's going broke because people in general are doing better. He needs them to go broke so he can do better.
Ain’t nobody doing better right now. And actually we do well in times that people do well, because it’s natural human tendency for people to overspend when they feel comfortable.

Ironically it’s just this fake time with inflationary printing money and handing it out to people and then telling landlords they can’t evict and banks they can’t foreclose, that has caused everyone to get a free pass for two years.

It needs to stop and I’m cheering for it harder than any, true.
 

Cowboysrock55

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They are gonna do it whether I hope or not, it’s fair for me to wish they would get on with it already when they are out there running up the prices on houses and cars they can’t truly afford so that I can’t afford them either.

It’s like a conservative friend asked me one time, do you feel bad helping people skimp out on paying their debts? No. I help the market correct itself. If you don’t want to be left holding the bag then don’t make stupid investments in people who aren’t likely to repay you without taking collateral. It was your own profit motive that led you to lend that money; it’s like investing in a stock and you lost your gamble as a creditor. It’s the free market at work and nothing less.

And when you have assholes signing loans with half their monthly income going to mortgages they can’t afford I do not have to feel bad about fixing their problems for a fee.
I tend to agree though, the housing market where I live a $400,000 house use to be pretty unaffordable to most of the population. The majority of people who could afford it were out of town people and most of the locals couldn't. Now just to get a decent home it costs almost $400,000. Locals all complain that there is nowhere affordable to live and are really struggling. The market is likely going to crash. But a lot of the market has also been bought up by out of town people who do have the money. They just turn around and rent a lot of that stuff out via air bnb (Lake Ozarks gets a lot of vacationers). So maybe those houses won't get foreclosed on. But you can only have so many airbnb's before companies have issues renting stuff out.

I was lucky enough though that I bought my house right before the market jumped and sold my old house after it went up. In the end I made out well although had I waited longer to sell I could have made more. But carrying a second property was kind of a pain. Two yards to mow and such. And the second house served no purpose, I only did it in that order because I wanted to clean the old one out before I tried to sell it.
 

Smitty

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I tend to agree though, the housing market where I live a $400,000 house use to be pretty unaffordable to most of the population. The majority of people who could afford it were out of town people and most of the locals couldn't. Now just to get a decent home it costs almost $400,000. Locals all complain that there is nowhere affordable to live and are really struggling. The market is likely going to crash. But a lot of the market has also been bought up by out of town people who do have the money. They just turn around and rent a lot of that stuff out via air bnb (Lake Ozarks gets a lot of vacationers). So maybe those houses won't get foreclosed on. But you can only have so many airbnb's before companies have issues renting stuff out.

I was lucky enough though that I bought my house right before the market jumped and sold my old house after it went up. In the end I made out well although had I waited longer to sell I could have made more. But carrying a second property was kind of a pain. Two yards to mow and such. And the second house served no purpose, I only did it in that order because I wanted to clean the old one out before I tried to sell it.
That's awesome, and yeah, it probably helped you make a lot more money than if you had to do it my way, which was, I had to sell my existing one first to get approved for a loan on a new one.

But yeah, I don't know if we will see a huge 2009 style crash but to think prices are going to stay where they are is delusional, and also, I'm already seeing price drops on Zillow pretty commonly.

I can tell you that when I sold mine back in 2021, I was approved for one number. Then after I was renting for a year on the same salary, no raise, no interest rate reduction, I somehow got approved for 100k more.

So that tells you about lending standards. The banks thought I was only safe paying one number a month, but then when prices went up, suddenly I was safe to pay a much higher number every month.

Which if they had given me that higher number the year earlier I would have actually been able to get something that I could now afford, ironically, because prices are now $200k-$250k above what I was looking to spend back in 2021. What I could once get for $400k is now more like $600k.
 

NoDak

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Ain’t nobody doing better right now. And actually we do well in times that people do well, because it’s natural human tendency for people to overspend when they feel comfortable.

Ironically it’s just this fake time with inflationary printing money and handing it out to people and then telling landlords they can’t evict and banks they can’t foreclose, that has caused everyone to get a free pass for two years.

It needs to stop and I’m cheering for it harder than any, true.
Don’t get me wrong. I know people aren’t doing better overall these last couple of years. Poor choice of words on my part.

And I agree with your post above 100%.
 
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