The Running Back position will doom us or not thread...

[L.T. Fan]

Of course the running game for Dallas will not be as good. A simple observation of the OL being essentially the same and the holder of the rushing title being gone is a simple equation. The RB position isn't as good as last season. It's only reasonable that the running game will be less effective.

 

[ravidubey]

Also if we can't win in the playoffs without a feature back, the Romo "window" is meaningless. Because he's only a bus driver if he can't win with the line and weapons that he's surrounded with.

We wouldn't have won last year without that feature back or outstanding play from Romo. It's amazing what they accomplished with the unbelievably shitty quality of defense we fielded during the playoffs.

You must admit, the run game in 2015 is not likely to actually improve from last year, right?

So for us to lose that feature back and actually improve as a contender, we need to improve dramatically elsewhere.

I believe the defense did improve, but we won't really get a feel by how much until late August.

We had several things go perfectly right defensively last year after Lee's injury and I doubt that kind of luck holds again this season. So we need Lee, Jones, Carr, Claiborne, Gregory, Lawrence, Crawford, and the McClains to play to their potential and remain healthy. We need Wilcox and Hitchens to keep improving.

Most of all we need Greg Hardy rust-free, healthy, strong, and playing the way we hoped he would for 10, not 6 games.

I like our chances, but man with a mere 4th round pick those chances would have improved dramatically.

 

[NoDak]

Jennings> McFadden | Vereen >=Randle | Andre Williams >>>>> Ryan Williams+Lance Dunbar. That's just reality.

Both Vereen and Jennings are solid veteran backs. Not great, not terrible. Joseph Randle looks about the same thus far.

In less than 2 hours, it went from Jennings and Vereen being "greater than", to 'Randle looks about the same' as those solid veteran backs.



This is embarrassing.

 

[ravidubey]

You're citing the best case scenario for every Giants back and worst case for every Dallas back. If you have to be that biased to make a point, you probably don't have one.

Man, pile on Clay.

What have I said that's implausible?

That NY will have have an average OL instead of a terrible one?

That a strong rookie prospect in a strong class with greater pedigree than any Cowboy RB has more potential than anyone Dallas has?

That Vereen and Jennings will be average?

That the worst three backs of all the above look to be McFadden, Dunbar, and Ryan Williams?

I think it really comes down to Randle. People seem to believe he's this 1200+ yard back.

Unfortunately they *have* to believe that.

In less than 2 hours, it went from Jennings and Vereen being "greater than", to 'Randle looks about the same' as those solid veteran backs.

FYI, ">=" translated means about the same or better.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

You must admit, the run game in 2015 is not likely to actually improve from last year, right?

So for us to lose that feature back and actually improve as a contender, we need to improve dramatically elsewhere.

Two things. The first is that you are assuming that our run game gets dramatically worse. Or at least you seem to be making that assumption when you say we have to get dramatically better somewhere else. I don't think our running game will be dramatically worse. Do I think it will be worse? Sure. No one is as good this year as Murray was last year. However our run blocking will be even better this year. Our offensive line got better. Our RBs should all be much fresher when they run the ball. So I don't see a dramatic drop off. Could we drop to 4.5 YPC as a team? Of course we could.

The second thing I'd say is that we did get dramatically better on defense. We got better on the D-line, we got better at LBer and we got better in the secondary. If our defense isn't significantly better next year I'll be very disappointed.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Of course the running game for Dallas will not be as good. A simple observation of the OL being essentially the same and the holder of the rushing title being gone is a simple equation. The RB position isn't as good as last season. It's only reasonable that the running game will be less effective.

We added a top 10-15 talent on the O-line. Not sure you can really say it's the same. Plus we added depth through the draft.

 

[townsend]

We wouldn't have won last year without that feature back or outstanding play from Romo. It's amazing what they accomplished with the unbelievably shitty quality of defense we fielded during the playoffs.

You must admit, the run game in 2015 is not likely to actually improve from last year, right?

So for us to lose that feature back and actually improve as a contender, we need to improve dramatically elsewhere.

I believe the defense did improve, but we won't really get a feel by how much until late August.

We had several things go perfectly right defensively last year after Lee's injury and I doubt that kind of luck holds again this season. So we need Lee, Jones, Carr, Claiborne, Gregory, Lawrence, Crawford, and the McClains to play to their potential and remain healthy. We need Wilcox and Hitchens to keep improving.

Most of all we need Greg Hardy rust-free, healthy, strong, and playing the way we hoped he would for 10, not 6 games.

I like our chances, but man with a mere 4th round pick those chances would have improved dramatically.

I agree with 90% of this. Admittedly if we had known Collins was coming to this team, passing on Chaz would have made more sense.
Championship teams aren't perfect. They do have to do certain things really well. Last year we ran the ball, passed the ball, controlled the clock, and created defensive turnovers.

This year I do expect the running game to take a step back, but an improvement on an already stellar Oline should at least be a step forward after two steps back. Defensive turnovers should skyrocket. Lee returning and addition of Jones, Hardy, Gregory should put us at the top of the league.
Finally we should be passing well, we have a more talented O line than last year with more depth, which would have been nice last year. Tony is a great QB and he's coming off his best season to date (obviously Murray contributed to that, but shit, there's a lot of good QBs who could never go on a run like that, even with a top RB.)

 

[boozeman]

Also if we can't win in the playoffs without a feature back, the Romo "window" is meaningless. Because he's only a bus driver if he can't win with the line and weapons that he's surrounded with.

Romo with a run game is top shelf, not a bus driver. It is not a coincidence he had fewer back breaking turnovers. He didn't feel the pressure to win games by himself. He seemed much more in control and efficient.

And it wasn't because the pass protection was that much better, he was not sacked less than par.

 

[Genghis Khan]

Why's Ajayi an upgrade over Randle? They're both 5th round RBs. Unlike Randle though Ajayi's never taken a snap in the NFL, and would certainly be much less ready to play day one than a guy who's been in this offense for 2 years. It would have been nice to grab another guy. But I'm skeptical of him as the solution to anyone's RB dilemma.

Also if we can't win in the playoffs without a feature back, the Romo "window" is meaningless. Because he's only a bus driver if he can't win with the line and weapons that he's surrounded with.

you can't just go by that. That they are for both 5th rounders is irrelevant.that's like saying why would we think Collins is better than Leary since they were both UDFAs. you have to evaluate the players based on their talent, not where they were or weren't drafted.

you also have to remember that running back is one of the easiest transitions from college to pro in football.usually, if you are a Pro running back, you are good just about immediately. So I don't buy the argument that Randall is automatically better just by virtue of having been a pro for 2 years.

I'm just going by what I see. I've said this before, but I liked Randall coming out of the draft. But two years as a pro has changed my mind. He has had flashes, but so far the more load he has been given, the less effective he has been. I think the stat is, the small handful of games where he has had more than 10 carries, he has averaged under three yards per carry. That is dreadful. And does not speak to a guy who will be able to be effective if given 200 plus carries a season. and that includes the Colts game last year, behind our vaunted offensive line.

this is not about Ajayi per se, but he has kind of become the focus because everybody loved the Gregory 2nd round pick. So after the second round, this was the running back left with the highest upside. But personally, I would have been happy to see any running back with lead back potential brought in.

as for Romo, the very fact that he is not a bus driver is why this is so vital. We have seen Adrian Peterson be squandered in Minnesota precisely because they do not have and have not had a quarterback that could share the load with the running game. Romo can. Which makes the team particularly dangerous. and a Super Bowl contender with the right elements complimenting him.

 

[L.T. Fan]

We added a top 10-15 talent on the O-line. Not sure you can really say it's the same. Plus we added depth through the draft.

I said essentially the same. The top ten talent won't hit the field at top speed.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I said essentially the same. The top ten talent won't hit the field at top speed.

I'd never say adding an elite level talent to any unit is essentially the same.

 

[ravidubey]

Two things. The first is that you are assuming that our run game gets dramatically worse. Or at least you seem to be making that assumption when you say we have to get dramatically better somewhere else. I don't think our running game will be dramatically worse. Do I think it will be worse? Sure. No one is as good this year as Murray was last year. However our run blocking will be even better this year. Our offensive line got better. Our RBs should all be much fresher when they run the ball. So I don't see a dramatic drop off. Could we drop to 4.5 YPC as a team? Of course we could.

YPC isn't as concerning to me as the number of rush attempts.

Dropping from 2104's 31.8 carries per game to a Packers/Patriots/Steelers-like 27.5-ish (dead middle) would be bad for us.

- Belichick's 5th WR is going to be as ready to play as his top guy.
- McCarthy's team drafts WR's every year. Their third stringer has as much potential to break a big play as their top guy.
- Big Ben used his big arm to throw to speed WRs behind the defense.

None of the above describes our team. Dallas eats up yardage in steady chunks and uses balance to keep teams guessing. So without that boost from the running game the extra pressure to generate offense falls primarily on Romo. It's too much of a burden.

Bottom line the OC has to keep feeding the backs no matter what happens. I doubt Linehan will remain disciplined enough to call runs without strong production.

The second thing I'd say is that we did get dramatically better on defense. We got better on the D-line, we got better at LBer and we got better in the secondary. If our defense isn't significantly better next year I'll be very disappointed.

I agree. They will almost have to be better. On a given Sunday when shit isn't working, they need to be able to carry the team like Murray could in 2014.

 

[L.T. Fan]

I'd never say adding an elite level talent to any unit is essentially the same.

Collins is a rookie and will not play up to his potential initially. Rookies are rookies. Even the one he will replace has some pro experience. They tend to offset for a little while.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Collins is a rookie and will not play up to his potential initially. Rookies are rookies. Even the one he will replace has some pro experience. They tend to offset for a little while.

Martin didn't play like a rookie. Guard is also a position that usually has a pretty quick and easy transition.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

YPC isn't as concerning to me as the number of rush attempts.

Dropping from 2104's 31.8 carries per game to a Packers/Patriots/Steelers-like 27.5-ish (dead middle) would be bad for us.

That's on the coaches and there is no reason to believe they will regress with regards to this.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Martin didn't play like a rookie. Guard is also a position that usually has a pretty quick and easy transition.

Martin is Martin. Collins hasn't played yet.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Martin is Martin. Collins hasn't played yet.

Wait and see I guess...

 

[townsend]

Martin is Martin. Collins hasn't played yet.

Smith and Frederick were both great rookies, too.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Smith and Frederick were both great rookies, too.

It's just LT having his regular Demarco Murray cry. No reason to engage in a discussion.

 

[Jiggyfly]

Smith and Frederick were both great rookies, too.

Good rookies not great Poe ate Fredericks lunch and Smith had his struggles as well.