The Great Police Work Thread

fortsbest

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"Officers get into fights all the time without discharging weapons", do they? Every cop I have every spoken to was very clear that they would prefer to murder someone rather than fight. The have a disturbing trend of saying "I am going home to my family".
We do say that we want to go home to our families, but I absolutely doubt anyone of them you spoke to said they would rather commit murder than fight someone. I call bullshit!

Personally I doubt he would shoot the cop, beat badly and hospitalize, yea. People don't just kill cops for jollys, they tend to take a dim view of that and the consequences are not worth it.
True, it doesn't happen alot, on average about 50-60 times a year, but no one estimates the almost times it happens or how many times cops get shot at or wounded per year. Do a search for "how many times are police shot at per year" and the results all come back with articles about how cops all shoot black people. There are estimated averages of police killing about 600 or so people a year based on all different circumstances. Given the number of calls and things officer deal with daily, I'm truly surprised the number is that low. I've probably come close to shooting someone 4 or 5 times over 23 years, but thankfully didn't have to. Not every officer is that lucky.

I sorta agree, but I also think the problem is both sides are right. Cops are scared and too quick to shoot people and escalate situations, but everyone knows you act like brown you are just flat out going to be shot. Basically I think this is the wrong case to make this point. The 12 year old shot for not dropping a cap gun would have been a better option.
Again I call BS. Cops don't get into this work because they are scared and those that are don't usually last long. And I will tell you that yes, if you act like Brown you may well get yourself shot. That is true whether you are white, black, red, yellow or green. Cops don't look to shoot people because we want to but it does happen and when it does cops suffer and grieve for having to have done it as well. I know a few officers that have had to shoot people and it isn't an easy thing to deal with even if you were perfectly justified in doing it.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Well, since I live in Texas I would be talking about Texas.... But i figure in all states if you feel your life is in imminent danger, you have the right to defend yourself. Or in some states do you have to let someone shoot you instead of shooting first?
I'm willing to bet that's not actually the standard in Texas. It's more likely that the standard is what a reasonable person would believe and actually has nothing to do with that particular person's beliefs are at the time. But I'm not a criminal defense attorney in Texas so I'll defer on that one.
 
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Clay_Allison

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I'm willing to bet that's not actually the standard in Texas. It's more likely that the standard is what a reasonable person would believe and actually has nothing to do with that particular person's beliefs at the time. But I'm not a criminal defense attorney in Texas so I'll defer on that one.
The "reasonable person" standard is what I was taught in the concealed handgun class.
 

jeebs

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Originally Posted by jeebs
Personally I doubt he would shoot the cop, beat badly and hospitalize, yea. People don't just kill cops for jollys, they tend to take a dim view of that and the consequences are not worth it.
i think people misunderstood this post. I wasn't saying beating cops was okay, or that deadly force is not allowed against someone who try's to assault police. I was just saying I don't think brown was going to kill the officer.
 

Clay_Allison

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i think people misunderstood this post. I wasn't saying beating cops was okay, or that deadly force is not allowed against someone who try's to assault police. I was just saying I don't think brown was going to kill the officer.
You never know what someone will do. The guy that killed officer Nagle, a CO on McConnell Unit, stabbed him to death for not letting him take food out onto the rec yard. He knew he was going to get caught and the penalty was going to be death.
 

1bigfan13

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[MENTION=49]fortsbest[/MENTION] a few co-workers and I pretty much pointed out the same stuff that you mentioned. We were talking about the case where the cops shot the 12 year old kid who had the BB gun in particular.

There's video out there showing the kid flashing this BB gun which absolutely looks real, especially if you don't examine it closely. Plus when you factor in all the shootings kids his age are involved in on seemingly a daily basis, how can you not assume that the gun is real.

I also agree with your point about people who aren't on the frontlines foolishly assuming that deescalating a situation is easy and routine. It's easy to think that stuff when you're sitting comfortably on your sofa and not on the frontline having to make split second life or death situations.

I say this with experience as I've been in that situation a few times during my deployments to the middle east.

I remember after one of the Koran burning incidents in Afghanistan a few years ago, Afghans were highly pissed off and wanted American blood spilled for the incident. The General in charge of US Forces, who was safely tucked away in his fortified base camp with dozens of security personnel and equipment surrounding him, spews some nonsense about how we should continue to work, business as usual and engage the Afghans in dialog. Dialog? Pfft. Afghans weren't interested in dialog. They wanted blood. They were throwing huge rocks at Soldiers guarding the gates, hurling fire bombs, etc. But the guy who's safely tucked away not on the front line thinks a passive approach is best. Go figure. I bring this up as a prime example of how a number of people who aren't personally in the line of fire, seem to always have "great ideas" of how a situation should have played out peacefully.



And yet, the great leaders of the black movements are crying foul and talking about vengeance and tearing this country down because of Michael Brown. Holy crap dude, way for people to select martyrs and a great group of folk for a people or race to listen to as leaders.
This is a point that I made as well and it's one of my biggest issues with the thuggish violence that's going on. I have no problem with the peaceful protestors but no way in hell am I getting worked up to the point to where I want to riot and tear things up over Michael Brown. Especially when it's been established that he's a bit of a thug and probably escalated the situation by going after the officer's gun. Also, I guarantee that prior to the shooting 99% of the protestors couldn't pick Michael Brown out of 2-man police lineup.....but his death has somehow stirred up enough emotion in them to where they feel the need to burn down their own city? Okay, to each their own.

Again, I have no problem with those that disagree with the decision not to indict but how about we ratchet down the "burn the city down" rage. Save that rage for an African American who's actually worth martyring.
 

jeebs

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A deployment to the Middle East should not be treated the same as a walk through an American city. Their is something fucked up in that equivilence.
 

1bigfan13

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A deployment to the Middle East should not be treated the same as a walk through an American city. Their is something fucked up in that equivilence.
I did not say they were one and the same.

I used it as an example to show how people who aren't in the line of fire tend to think the passive approach is best.

I thought I explained that clearly.
 
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Cotton

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I'm willing to bet that's not actually the standard in Texas. It's more likely that the standard is what a reasonable person would believe and actually has nothing to do with that particular person's beliefs at the time. But I'm not a criminal defense attorney in Texas so I'll defer on that one.
Huh?
 

Cotton

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I did not say they were one in the same.

I used it as an example to show how people who aren't in the line of fire tend to think the passive approach is best.

I thought I explained that clearly.
This is absolutely correct. It's really easy for some tough guy on a msg board to say that since this guy was a cop he should have just taken a step back, re-evaluated the situation, and enacted verbal judo to stop a 300 lb man from charging at him.
 

Cotton

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There is a massive difference between what an individual actually believes and what a reasonable person would believe.
Well, I am a reasonable person, so maybe I should word it differently. If I ever feel like my life is in imminent danger I believe it to be fully within my rights to shoot someone to end that danger.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Well, I am a reasonable person, so maybe I should word it differently. If I ever feel like my life is in imminent danger I believe it to be fully within my rights to shoot someone to end that danger.
As long as you fit the legal definitely of a reasonable person you're fine. Of course that may be debatable :art
 

Clay_Allison

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The reasonable person standard means you have to justify WHY you thought your life was in danger, such as: someone just broke into my house, he said he was going to kill me and pulled a knife out of his pocket, I was outnumbered by a group of aggressive individuals.

A belief based on: Voices in your head, an offensive tee shirt, similarity in appearance to a bad guy on game of thrones, etc would not fit the reasonable person standard. If you were a crazy person, instead of a reasonable person, those things might give you a real feeling of danger, but the danger would not be real.
 

Cotton

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The reasonable person standard means you have to justify WHY you thought your life was in danger, such as: someone just broke into my house, he said he was going to kill me and pulled a knife out of his pocket, I was outnumbered by a group of aggressive individuals.

A belief based on: Voices in your head, an offensive tee shirt, similarity in appearance to a bad guy on game of thrones, etc would not fit the reasonable person standard. If you were a crazy person, instead of a reasonable person, those things might give you a real feeling of danger, but the danger would not be real.
Well, yeah, but I was more referring to a sane person. The assumption is what probably confused my statement.
 

Clay_Allison

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Well, yeah, but I was more referring to a sane person. The assumption is what probably confused my statement.
The main thing I think Jeebs and Crock were talking about is that cops get off with killing over less reasonable threats, like shooting a man for pulling out his wallet after being asked for ID. If you or I shot a man in line at Wal Mart for pulling out his wallet and gave a lame ass "I thought it was a gun" excuse, the very same cop would arrest us and we would go to prison.
 

Cowboysrock55

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The main thing I think Jeebs and Crock were talking about is that cops get off with killing over less reasonable threats, like shooting a man for pulling out his wallet after being asked for ID. If you or I shot a man in line at Wal Mart for pulling out his wallet and gave a lame ass "I thought it was a gun" excuse, the very same cop would arrest us and we would go to prison.
And this really has more to do with prosecuting attorneys then anything. In the legal system they are basically are on the same team as the officers. So when it comes to making that decision to prosecute or not it comes down to the prosecuting attorney. It's too common that officers get special treatment.
 

E_D_Guapo

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Well, I am a reasonable person, so maybe I should word it differently. If I ever feel like my life is in imminent danger I believe it to be fully within my rights to shoot someone to end that danger.
What if the person that makes you feel as though you are in imminent danger is a cop?
 

Cotton

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What if the person posing that makes you feel as though you are in imminent danger is a cop?
Then it should be within your rights to shoot them.
 
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