2025 NFL Draft Chatter

[Cowboysrock55]

Looks like Jeanty did nothing at pro day either.

He is probably a 4.5-4.6 speed guy. Wasn't going to help him.

 

[Cotton]

(I think Warren is better than you give him credit for.)

Will never get old.

 

[Simpleton]

Kittle can block

Yea and Warren is a really good blocker compared to the vast majority of TE's who come out.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Yea and Warren is a really good blocker compared to the vast majority of TE's who come out.

I get the Gronk comps.

 

[Cujo]

I'd be ok with Warren, honestly. I think he will be elite.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I'd be ok with Warren, honestly. I think he will be elite.

I love Warren but we need someone to spread the defense out in the worst way. If we had a good speedy number 2 WR I would have a different opinion.

 

[Simpleton]

Egbuka apparently ran a 4.45 with a 38 inch vert and 4.12 20-yard shuttle at his Pro Day.

4.45 is a very solid number for him, Smith-Njigba ran a 4.52 at his Pro Day, although obviously it's not quite as impressive as the types of times guys like Olave and Wilson ran.

Doesn't change much for me either way though, he's not a consideration for me at 12 because I think he's clearly the 3rd best WR in the class, but if we trade down he'd be strongly in the mix.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Egbuka apparently ran a 4.45 with a 38 inch vert and 4.12 20-yard shuttle at his Pro Day.

4.45 is a very solid number for him, Smith-Njigba ran a 4.52 at his Pro Day, although obviously it's not quite as impressive as the types of times guys like Olave and Wilson ran.

Doesn't change much for me either way though, he's not a consideration for me at 12 because I think he's clearly the 3rd best WR in the class, but if we trade down he'd be strongly in the mix.

That time certainly doesn't hurt him. To me it's pretty consistent with what he is as a player. Basically good at everything but maybe not special at anything. He doesn't have sort of that one freaky trait about him like Golden or McMillan. But I also don't think the guy really has any weakness or concern for me. He is also a really good run blocker.

Basically I'd feel very confident that he could step in from day one and be Robin to Batman (Lamb). And be very good at it. I'd love him. But there certainly feels like more upside to taking the other two guys. I'd feel a hell of a lot better about it than say Mykel Williams. And frankly better than Tyler Warren. This draft is 3 WRs and then a big gap. I'd be thrilled with any of those three. If not I'd rather take my gamble later.

 

[Simpleton]

That time certainly doesn't hurt him. To me it's pretty consistent with what he is as a player. Basically good at everything but maybe not special at anything. He doesn't have sort of that one freaky trait about him like Golden or McMillan. But I also don't think the guy really has any weakness or concern for me. He is also a really good run blocker.

Basically I'd feel very confident that he could step in from day one and be Robin to Batman (Lamb). And be very good at it. I'd love him. But there certainly feels like more upside to taking the other two guys. I'd feel a hell of a lot better about it than say Mykel Williams. And frankly better than Tyler Warren. This draft is 3 WRs and then a big gap. I'd be thrilled with any of those three. If not I'd rather take my gamble later.

I'd take him over Williams but not Warren, I think Warren could easily be a 4-5 Pro Bowler and maybe even a HOF'er one day. His jump ball ability is "freaky" in my opinion, like Gronk.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I'd take him over Williams but not Warren, I think Warren could easily be a 4-5 Pro Bowler and maybe even a HOF'er one day. His jump ball ability is "freaky" in my opinion, like Gronk.

Yeah I don't want to pick on Warren because the truth is I really like him. I know his blocking gets knocked but I have to think that can be coached up. He is such a physical and violent dude as a runner, I have a hard time not thinking he couldn't figure out how to block at a high level.

This is my problem with Warren and the Cowboys taking him. He isn't overly athletic. He has great length and jump ball ability but this team really struggles with spreading a defense out. And maybe that doesn't matter next year. Maybe we will be just a smash you in the mouth offense and we don't care if the safeties are playing 10 yards off the ball or if the defense ever plays nickel. But that's my concern, Warren feels and looks like a better version of Ferguson. Who I love. But with the 12th pick I don't think it makes the team much better.

Egbuka on the outside I think would feast opposite Lamb. He has enough speed to make the big plays. It just feels like you'd spread the defense out more and create more opportunities for the run game as well. But I really like both players. I'd take either on the roster. I just don't think Warren makes sense for this team and the way it's constructed. And maybe I'm considering need into it too much because everything could change a year from now with the roster. It's the nature of the NFL.

I also think I can get a TE later in the draft that is closer in talent to Warren than I can get a WR who is closer in talent to Egbuka. There is just such a drop from the top 3 receivers in this draft in my opinion. But Golden's speed for all of the reasons I just mentioned might be the best fit for the Cowboys.

 

[Simpleton]

Yeah I don't want to pick on Warren because the truth is I really like him. I know his blocking gets knocked but I have to think that can be coached up. He is such a physical and violent dude as a runner, I have a hard time not thinking he couldn't figure out how to block at a high level.

This is my problem with Warren and the Cowboys taking him. He isn't overly athletic. He has great length and jump ball ability but this team really struggles with spreading a defense out. And maybe that doesn't matter next year. Maybe we will be just a smash you in the mouth offense and we don't care if the safeties are playing 10 yards off the ball or if the defense ever plays nickel. But that's my concern, Warren feels and looks like a better version of Ferguson. Who I love. But with the 12th pick I don't think it makes the team much better.

Egbuka on the outside I think would feast opposite Lamb. He has enough speed to make the big plays. It just feels like you'd spread the defense out more and create more opportunities for the run game as well. But I really like both players. I'd take either on the roster. I just don't think Warren makes sense for this team and the way it's constructed. And maybe I'm considering need into it too much because everything could change a year from now with the roster. It's the nature of the NFL.

I also think I can get a TE later in the draft that is closer in talent to Warren than I can get a WR who is closer in talent to Egbuka. There is just such a drop from the top 3 receivers in this draft in my opinion. But Golden's speed for all of the reasons I just mentioned might be the best fit for the Cowboys.

I struggle with Warren because if you asked me to list in order the players who I think are most likely to make the HOF it'd be: Carter, Hunter, Jeanty, Graham and then probably Warren.

His blocking is at least average, this isn't Kyle Pitts, he's not quite Hockenson coming out either but his blocking is better than most of the 1st round TE's, who are usually drafted primarily for their receiving ability.

On the flip side I agree with everything you're saying about needing a more explosive element offensively, and while I think Warren provides that to an extent, we also have two TE's who I'd feel comfortable with starting. Ferguson was a Pro Bowler two years ago and despite people hating on Schoonmaker, I'd feel perfectly fine starting him for a month or two if something happened to Ferguson as long as we added some explosiveness at WR or RB.

So while I think Warren is a better prospect than someone like Golden, I think it's close enough that I'd lean towards the better fit/least duplication with what we currently have. I'm not quite there with Egbuka though, which is why it's more of a toss up for me.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I think there's also the element that it seems like (I haven't looked at the actual numbers) so many of these very high TE picks are busts or at least big disappointments, like Pitts and Hockenson. And the best TEs like Kittle and Kelce and Gronk weren't super high picks. For some reason it seems like a tricky position to judge.

Not sure why that is but it's even in my head when I think about Warren for us. Simp or anyone, any idea why that is? Or is it even true and the bust rate is no higher than any other position?

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Not sure why that is but it's even in my head when I think about Warren for us. Simp or anyone, any idea why that is? Or is it even true and the bust rate is no higher than any other position?

Bust rate is hard. Because disappointment isn't the same as bust. Pitts for example isn't really a bust but he isn't what you'd expect from a high pick. Brock Bowers gives TE a recency bias bump. Hockenson isn't a bust but he wasn't worth as high as he went. And was replaced by a second round pick who is out performing him now.

I think the NFL is filled with decent TEs. I can go through the fourth round of this draft with TEs I could see being very good. But finding the rare elite TE feels like a roll of the dice.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

But finding the rare elite TE feels like a roll of the dice.

That's all I'm saying. Why is that?

Maybe it's as simple as it being such a complicated position with a lot of different responsibilities, I don't know.

 

[Simpleton]

Bust rate is hard. Because disappointment isn't the same as bust. Pitts for example isn't really a bust but he isn't what you'd expect from a high pick. Brock Bowers gives TE a recency bias bump. Hockenson isn't a bust but he wasn't worth as high as he went. And was replaced by a second round pick who is out performing him now.

I think the NFL is filled with decent TEs. I can go through the fourth round of this draft with TEs I could see being very good. But finding the rare elite TE feels like a roll of the dice.

Yea Hockenson has made two Pro Bowls and is probably the 4th or 5th best TE in the league at the moment, is that worth a top 10 pick?

Maybe, maybe not.

I just think the perception is based on the fact that many of the best TE's of the last 10-15 years came in the mid-rounds, but there's a randomness to that as well. Guys like LaPorta and Gronk weren't first rounders but they went within the first 5-10 picks of the second, how does that square exactly?

Brock Bowers will probably be the best TE in the league over the next 5 or so years, how does that square?

Does the fact that a bunch of the top edge rushers over the last 10 years came from outside of the first mean we should ignore Mike Green at 12?

I think TE is hard because most of the guys who are legitimate downfield threats aren't blockers, which limits their utility, and most of the guys who end up being really good well-rounded TE's are masters of working the middle of the field within about 10-15 yards, which is a skill that doesn't readily pop on tape in college and can be influenced by scheme that may not exist in college.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Does the fact that a bunch of the top edge rushers over the last 10 years came from outside of the first mean we should ignore Mike Green at 12?

I mean the current best pass rushers like Garrett and Parsons were top half first round guys. TJ Watt went in the first round.

Of course Hendrickson wasn't. But if you ask me the elite NFL pass rushers I'd say a good percent were first round picks. But not as many TEs go first round, so second round TE might be the equivalent to 12 pick first round pass rusher. Pass rushers just hold a higher value. Like WRs hold a higher value. RBs are a lower value.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Yea Hockenson has made two Pro Bowls and is probably the 4th or 5th best TE in the league at the moment, is that worth a top 10 pick?

Maybe, maybe not.

And that's kind of the hard thing with the value of the position of TE. Hockenson is not a bust. He is a very good TE. But even a top 5 TE like that doesn't feel worth a first round pick. Anyone trading a first round pick for Trey McBride right now? I doubt it even though he is a terrific 25 year old TE. The bar for success for the 12th overall pick at TE feels like it needs to be Gronk, Kittle or Kelce good or it's not really worth it.
And I like Bowers but even he is sort of a wait and see. Kyle Pitts had 1000 yards as a rookie and now he is sort of a middling TE. Averaging 10 yards a catch just isn't impactful the way a WR can be.

 

[bbgun]

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I take school workout numbers accuracy with a grain of salt.

But at least he ran unlike some other chicken shits.

 

[Bipo]