Washington Redtails? LMAO

[2233boys]

FWIW:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Redskins_mascot_controversy

In 1992, Susan Shown Harjo, President of the Morning Star Institute, joined forces with other prominent Native Americans as well as Dorsey & Whitney law firm of Minneapolis and petitioned the U.S. Patent and Trademark office. They based their lawsuit on the idea that Federal Trademark law states that certain trademarks are not legal if they are "disparaging, scandalous contemptuous, or disreputable." The legal battle went on for seven years and in 1999 the judges canceled the federal trademarks of the Redskin name "on the grounds that the subject marks may disparage Native Americans and may bring them into contempt or disrepute."

Upon the news that the Redskins had been sold, the owners appealed the decision to a district court in the District of Columbia in Pro-Football, Inc. vs. Harjo. The court reversed the decision on the grounds of insufficient evidence of disparagement.

Pwned.

Hasn't that case been taken to the Supreme Court?

 

[Cotton]

Swastikas are prevalent in ancient Asian architecture...I'd argue that people are wrong if they demanded that the swastikas be removed.

It was a very early symbol in the Hindu culture, no doubt.

 

[Smitty]

Hasn't that case been taken to the Supreme Court?

It was appealed to the Supreme Court... who turned it down, indicating they weren't going to overturn it.

 

[2233boys]

Just to be clear where did you get the 9% of offended Native Americans from ?

I asked this question because the only place I could find that number in relation to this question was from an anonymous poll done that had people self identify as Native American. Just saying the whole 9% claim being thrown around here could be complete horseshit. In one thing I read discussing this poll it said the question asked of the self identified Native Americans was as follows. "The professional football team in Washington calls itself the Washington Redskins. As a Native American, do you find that name offensive or doesn't?t it bother you?" It went on to suggest that it was reasonable to assume that the people polled focused on the positive reasons someone would name their team after your group rather than how they would feel if it was used in a disrespectful context.

As an aside, I don't think they should be compelled by the government to change their name.

 

[EZ22]

Schmitty thinks we need to grow up and stop being offended by racists names and undertones.

But he would be pissed at his sister is she married a black guy.

And you niggers damn well better not be offended by that!

 

[Cotton]

I asked this question because the only place I could find that number in relation to this question was from an anonymous poll done that had people self identify as Native American. Just saying the whole 9% claim being thrown around here could be complete horseshit. In one thing I read discussing this poll it said the question asked of the self identified Native Americans was as follows. "The professional football team in Washington calls itself the Washington Redskins. As a Native American, do you find that name offensive or doesn't?t it bother you?" It went on to suggest that it was reasonable to assume that the people polled focused on the positive reasons someone would name their team after your group rather than how they would feel if it was used in a disrespectful context.

As an aside, I don't think they should be compelled by the government to change their name.

Thanks for the research. What % of them answered negatively?

 

[2233boys]

It was appealed to the Supreme Court... who turned it down, indicating they weren't going to overturn it.

I should have looked it up. A quick google search gave me that answer thanks.

 

[BipolarFuk]

Funny how people like to hit you over the head with poll numbers (from one poll) when they support their agenda.

But when the numbers go against them, let's use the broader background checks that a poll suggested 90% of the people supported as an example.

The NRA and other extreme gun nuts didn't like those numbers very well, so they start yelling, "Oh yeah, where did you conduct that poll? New York City, California? Fucking liberal BIAS POLLS!!"

 

[Cotton]

Funny how people like to hit you over the head with poll numbers (from one poll) when they support their agenda.

But when the numbers go against them, let's use the broader background checks that a poll suggested 90% of the people supported as an example.

The NRA and other extreme gun nuts didn't like those numbers very well, so they start yelling, "Oh yeah, where did you conduct that poll? New York City, California? Fucking liberal BIAS POLLS!!"

This post is almost equal to the best I have ever seen from you.

 

[BipolarFuk]

WHO DID YOU POLL?

INDIAN CASINO OWNERS?

Hai, guys.

91% of Indian casino owners don't give a fuck about Redskin.

 

[Cotton]

WHO DID YOU POLL?

INDIAN CASINO OWNERS?

Hai, guys.

91% of Indian casino owners don't give a fuck about Redskin.

Thank you for contributing to the thread.

I hope to hear more from you in the future.

 

[2233boys]

Thanks for the research. What % of them answered negatively?

It said 9%, but that the poll was also anonymous relaying on the respondents to self identify themselves as Native American. My wife's Great Great Great Grandmother was a Cherokee and none of her family even has any ties to that culture. She could technically claim to be of Native American decent and would have answered this same poll like 91% of the 786 respondents. I guess my point is that if the poll doesn't have as much credibility as one done more selectively and with more criteria.

Sports Illustrated did one in 2002 that asked Native Americans on reservations and 62% didn't find it offensive. I'd trust that number a little more.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Schmitty thinks we need to grow up and stop being offended by racists names and undertones.

But he would be pissed at his sister is she married a black guy.

And you niggers damn well better not be offended by that!

Question. Regarding the "N" word, I see and hear black people use the word often and black comedians as well. There doesn't seem to be any offense taken in that setting so is it the word that is offensive or who is saying the word?

 

[Kbrown]

It said 9%, but that the poll was also anonymous relaying on the respondents to self identify themselves as Native American. My wife's Great Great Great Grandmother was a Cherokee and none of her family even has any ties to that culture. She could technically claim to be of Native American decent and would have answered this same poll like 91% of the 786 respondents. I guess my point is that if the poll doesn't have as much credibility as one done more selectively and with more criteria.

Sports Illustrated did one in 2002 that asked Native Americans on reservations and 62% didn't find it offensive. I'd trust that number a little more.

Is this a long way of saying CNNSI is the only reputable source?

 

[2233boys]

Is this a long way of saying CNNSI is the only reputable source?

guess it is...

 

[Cujo]

[h=1]Native Americans Speaking Out In Support Of Redskins[/h]The Washington Redskins have been under tremendous scrutiny over the last couple of months in regard to what some consider an “offensive” and “racist” name. While the group of complainants only make up 9% of the Native American population (according to the latest poll), many have wondered why the other 91% have been left unspoken.


It’s easy to assume the silence means indifference to the name, but you have to consider the repercussions of speaking out against the popular opinion of the Native American Media. Such punishments can range from the removal from the tribe, as well as professions ruined.

With the possible backlash from the powers that be it’s easy to understand why most Native American’s do not speak out, as they are in fear of their reputation, jobs, or even their life. On reservations it is their law, not the law the general public is used to.


Kevin, whose last name we cannot use wrote us a lengthy email on exactly this after seeing Ray’s appearance on “Outside the Lines” defending the Redskins name. He explains why those who support the Washington Redskins, as well as other teams with Native American connections are kept in silence.


“We quietly support you for the following main reasons, which are briefly included below -

• The obsession with protesting mascots and names like Redskins is an obsession of white Indians. They protest mascots, children dressing up on Halloween and other silly things because it makes them feel Indian. It lets them scream racism. They know no other way of feeling Indian. They are totally disconnected from the real issues that affect mainstream Indians on reservations. They are fully Americanized. They have lost their language, culture, religion and even their skin color.

• Unfortunately the white Indians have the loudest voices. If we go against them, they hurt us in our careers and lives because they [white Indians] control our media, academia, government jobs, medical clinics, finances, who gets denied federal recognition, even our tribes – everything. They have the money and the power. We have the Indian-ness.

• Brown Indians on reservations have more important issues to worry about. Like diabetes, how we get our next meal, crime on reservations, lack of electricity, lack of toilets, lack of running water, no heat when there’s snow outside, getting a relative to a dialysis clinic when there is no transport, finding a job when there’s near 100% unemployment, near 100% consideration of suicide among our youth, alcoholism, drug abuse, elder abuse, spouse abuse, land loss, culture loss, language loss, etc. Mascots are a NON-ISSUE to us.

• The media should be screaming about the real issues. Instead their main focus is on mascots. The focus on mascots and meaningless debates about redskins detract attention from the REAL issues facing brown Indians.

• When these white Indians offend sports fans or insult a little child who loves Indians and puts on feathers, they alienate the rest of America against brown Indians. Note that the white Indians blend in beautifully into the white society. No one even realizes they are Indian. But when an angered sports fan who is upset about losing his mascot screams “**** you sand ******” or throws a beer can at us from a passing car screaming “MOTHER******, GO BACK TO YOUR ****ING RESERVATION!!” they scream such obscenities at my father, my cousin, my brother and my family members who look Indian.

• Indians should do an A-B-C analysis and focus on the A-items. Mascots and names like redskin, or debates about whether the right word is Native American and not Indian, are not even C items. They are Z items. Unfortunately the white Indians obsess over these Z-items because that is the ONLY way they know how to feel Indian. If we twist America’s arm and get America to concede on the trivial items, the country will lose patience with us when we negotiate important A-items.

• We are offending our fan base. That little child who insists on dressing up in a costume and putting on some feathers loves Indians, but when white Indians insult his mom and dad by calling them racists, he grows up to resent those of us who look Indian. Indians were unflappable. Now even a silly word like “costume” that I used above instead of “regalia” raises hackles? Don’t forget, it’s the white Indians who come down and tell the rest of us to be offended. We had someone who made cartoons about this issue and some of them are attached to this email.
• The vocalizations of these white Indians seem to unite Indian opposition – they find forums and avenues to kindle hatred against Indians and rehash and reiterate negative stereotypes about Indians. They find a common ground under which those who resent and oppose Indians can unify together and gather in strength.
• White Indians who oppose mascots point to the Halloween “blackface” and ask, “Don’t you find that offensive???” And the answer is yes, some Halloween costumes are expressly intended to mock and degrade. Sometimes it is Mother Mary dressed up voluptuously in revealing breasts, sometimes stupid people dress up as a rabbi with a hooked nose eating a bagel and counting money. Sometimes people put on a black face that portrays African Americans with exaggerated noses and large pink lips. Yes, these are no doubt offensive. But mascots usually portray teams that their fans are proud of. The Washington Redskins are proud of their mascots and will surely never run down their mascot this way.”

In a follow-up, he [Kevin] went on to tell me:


“The American sports lovers are our brothers and sisters. We love them and respect them and also understand they mean us no disrespect for the most part. Please don’t let these clueless, identity-less white Indians drive a wedge between the mainstream Indians and sports loving fans.”


This opens a whole new side to the argument on why those who are Natives and support the Redskins do not speak publicly about it. After all 91% of Native Americans DO support mascots with Native American connections according to the last National Annenberg Election Survey. The Seminoles who support Florida State University, and the Utah Indians who support The University of Utah are prime examples of this.

So you're supporting argument is from one guy, identified only as 'Kevin'. Alrighty then. That's kind of weak, don't you think? Personally, if no Native Americans are offended, or even if they are, that should be up to them, collectively, to decide. Not anybody else. I just doubt that, uh, 'Kevin', speaks for the entire Native American population.

 

[Cujo]

For the record, as a white man, I would like to say that Schmitty does NOT speak for me.

He clearly has a superiority complex.

Me either.

 

[Cotton]

So you're supporting argument is from one guy, identified only as 'Kevin'. Alrighty then. That's kind of weak, don't you think? Personally, if no Native Americans are offended, or even if they are, that should be up to them, collectively, to decide. Not anybody else. I just doubt that, uh, 'Kevin', speaks for the entire Native American population.

We should probably get them all together for a round table.

 

[mcnuttz]

Good point, LT...maybe only Native Americans should be able to call them Redskins.

 

[Smitty]

So you're supporting argument is from one guy, identified only as 'Kevin'. Alrighty then. That's kind of weak, don't you think? Personally, if no Native Americans are offended, or even if they are, that should be up to them, collectively, to decide. Not anybody else. I just doubt that, uh, 'Kevin', speaks for the entire Native American population.

I don't think the minority of professional victims and activists who are making up crap about the term Washington Redskins being offensive speak for Native American populations either. In any case, that article wasn't to prove definitely that Kevin speaks for the majority of Native Americans (no, the poll numbers do that instead), but rather to point out the logical arguments against repealing the name Washington Redskins. Namely in his last paragraph, where it states how the Redskins mascot is not depcited in a derogatory manner but rather a respectful one. This seriously undermines the argument that Native Americans can actually be offended by this term.