Training camp thread...

[mcnuttz]

Play Costa at guard then. Screw that. I'd rather have one excellent starter then two below average starters. I think Frederick at center and Arkin at guard is a better "overall" combo then Costa at center and Federick at guard. Getting the 5 best on the field assumse that these guys can basically play any position equally which just isn't true. Frederick is not that same at guard as he is at center. You are reducing his impact significantly in order to just get Costa on the field.

Exactly, moving your 1st round C to G just because of injuries is bad business.

Leave him there in the middle and let him help out your crappy G's as much as he can...but don't take him out from in front of your QB, where he's running the line.

From what little bit I've seen of him at G, I wasn't impressed anyway. He's a frikkin C, leave him there.

 

[Texas Ace]

I will say it right now.

His ceiling is Newman level.

And that is not worth what we gave up for him.

I said this a few months ago - the guy hasn't shown a semblance of elite ability in the short time he's been here.

Even if your play doesn't stand out, when you're truly an elite player, you show flashes of it. Look at Dez......his first season had a bunch of flashes. Even his 2nd and 3rd seasons when he struggled, he'd do something that reminded you why you were waiting on him to bust out.

Claiborne was just there.

I don't know what his ceiling is, but it won't be what it should be for the 6th pick in the draft.

 

[Deuce]

Claiborne showed better awareness and an ability to play the ball in the air than Newman ever did. Disappointing first season just based on expectations, but he's hardly average.

 

[mcnuttz]

Claiborne showed better awareness and an ability to play the ball in the air than Newman ever did. Disappointing first season just based on expectations, but he's hardly average.

He's hardly elite, which is what you'd hope they were getting when they decided to sacrifice that draft for a CB.

 

[Texas Ace]

Claiborne showed better awareness and an ability to play the ball in the air than Newman ever did. Disappointing first season just based on expectations, but he's hardly average.

He did? When was this? Because I never once saw him jump a route or anything like that.

Even if it would've been a dropped pick I'd feel better about him because I would've liked to have at least had him show some type of the ball awareness he was known for in college, but it never happened.

So when did these plays he made while tracking the ball in mid air happen?

 

[Deuce]

He's hardly elite, which is what you'd hope they were getting when they decided to sacrifice that draft for a CB.

He was hardly elite his rookie season, doesn't mean he won't be at some point.

 

[Deuce]

He did? When was this? Because I never once saw him jump a route or anything like that.

Even if it would've been a dropped pick, I would've liked to have at least had him show some type of the ball awareness he was known for in college, but it never happened.

So when did these plays he made while tracking the ball in mid air happen?

Do you want specific games and time stamps? Sorry, the archives are gone.

 

[Texas Ace]

Do you want specific games and time stamps? Sorry, the archives are gone.

Seriously, if you remember a particular play that stood out to you on pass defense, tell me what it was.

I'm not trying to be funny, I honestly don't remember him making any type of play that I would deem as "impressive" in the passing game.

 

[boozeman]

Cowboys practice report: Day 18

August, 15, 2013


By Calvin Watkins | ESPNDallas.com



OXNARD, Calif. -- A marine mist swung through the practice fields here on the last open practice for the Dallas Cowboys.

*Cowboys worked mostly on preparing for their opponent on Saturday afternoon, the Arizona Cardinals.

•Dwayne Harris had a solid day on offense with two leaping catches and a touchdown grab. It was one of Harris' better days of training camp.


*Jason Witten dropped a wide-open pass as he neared the sidelines. Witten was trying to get his feet down and catch the ball, something he does with ease but didn't this time. On the next play, James Hanna made an over-the-shoulder grab on a pass from Tony Romo.


•Joseph Randle had a strong run off the right tackle with the third-team offense. Randle has deceptive speed and has great vision. The Cowboys will get him plenty of snaps in the preseason.


•Lance Dunbar has been fantastic this entire camp. Dunbar shows speed, vision and is not afraid of contact. The only negative is pass protection. He's 5-foot-8, and that puts him at a disadvantage against bigger defenders. Dunbar has the solid base to prepare for blocks, but running backs coach Gary Brown said he needs to use his punch to hold defenders off.


•Dez Bryant made a nice leaping catch and saw the ball before Brandon Carr could react on it.


•With the defensive coaches preaching turnovers, Danny McCray should have snagged one from Danny Coale on a reception down field. Coale pulled the pass into his chest just seconds before McCray had a chance to get there. But McCray should have kept tugging on Coale's arms during the reception.


•Jason Hatcher's emergence as a leader took shape during the scout team run. With Jabari Fletcher not on the field to take a snap with the scout team defense, Ben Bloom, the defensive quality control/linebackers coach elected to take the snap. Hatcher took over and sent Bloom off the field. After the play was run, Fletcher ran back onto the field. Hatcher is showing he's willing to do anything to help the team.


•Expect Nick Hayden and Hatcher to start at defensive tackle with the first-team and George Selvie as the defensive end. DeMarcus Ware is the other end. Carr and Orlando Scandrick are the first-team corners with Morris Claiborne out. B.W. Webb is getting time as the slot corner with the second-team and Brandon Magee was the second-team middle linebacker. David Arkin is the first-team left guard and Dennis Godfrey is the backup.

 

[VA Cowboy]

I will say it right now.

His ceiling is Newman level.

And that is not worth what we gave up for him.

2nd best player in teh draft...boom!

 

[boozeman]

He will be better than Newman I think. I think he'll be at least as good as Carr is.

Carr also didn't cost a first and a second to draft.

If that's as good as he gets, it is a bad pick. For what we spent, we should have a top five CB. He should be a Bailey, Revis, etc.

 

[mcnuttz]

He was hardly elite his rookie season, doesn't mean he won't be at some point.

If you're wasting your draft on a player that year, it should have been Luck.

No way trading it all away for a CB is ever a good idea for a team so lacking in depth.

But if, as an owner, you think that "hoping" the lines work themselves out is a strategy, then I guess sending it all for the best CB prospect since Deion is sound business planning.

 

[ravidubey]

Claiborne played well from the start and is still learning and adjusting.

Being targeted only 7.6% of your snaps is low for a CB, but his problem is not being able to track the football and stop a play when he is targeted. He only has the one pick, which I guess is the source of all the hate.

Cowboys corners mostly had to play conservatively as the first and last line of defense last year, and defenses aren't meant to work that way. I think major improvement will come if the front seven can get untracked under Kiffen and Marinelli and with better safety play.

My only concern is whether Claiborne has the speed to react once his mind fully adjusts to the pro game.

What I love about Claiborne is his sense of accountability. He had a terrible game against the Eagles with 5 penalties and apologized to his teammates afterwards. But then he allowed only 11 yards the next two games and didn't have another penalty the rest of the year.

As for the best defensive players in the draft last year, it's not like there was an Aldon Smith-type guy available in 2012-- Luke Kuechly won DROY (yawn).

 

[L.T. Fan]

It's a little soon to be making peak analysis about him. Barring injury I am of the opinion that you will see a player's peak potential in their 4th year.

 

[Deuce]

Seriously, if you remember a particular play that stood out to you on pass defense, tell me what it was.

I'm not trying to be funny, I honestly don't remember him making any type of play that I would deem as "impressive" in the passing game.

I remember making posts in various Gameday Chatter threads after he made a good play. Mostly in the first few games since that was when it was most noticable. Having CBs who couldn't play the ball in the air have been around for so long, seeing it happen was almost like a revelation to me.

 

[Deuce]

Let's also not forget, this scheme turns average CBs with a specific skill set into borderline elite players. Rhonde Barber was never the best CB in the league and he damn sure would have never been in the conversation had he not played in the Tampa 2, but he did and he performed well. I think Claiborne will be able to be more physical and a ball hawk when he gets the reads down.

It's another reason why I was sad to see Jenkins go. He excelled in this scheme in college and once we switch to it, he's gone.

 

[Smitty]

Let's also not forget, this scheme turns average CBs with a specific skill set into borderline elite players. Rhonde Barber was never the best CB in the league and he damn sure would have never been in the conversation had he not played in the Tampa 2, but he did and he performed well. I think Claiborne will be able to be more physical and a ball hawk when he gets the reads down.

It's another reason why I was sad to see Jenkins go. He excelled in this scheme in college and once we switch to it, he's gone.

I think they had a problem with Jenkins beyond whether he could actually play (and looking at him, I'm not shocked). Whether it was his pussing out of tackles or his reoccurring injuries, or whether they just didn't like him as a person, I think they more or less soured on him.

Which is too bad because if they would have massaged his ego and committed to him I think he'd be a fine corner, especially if he's only your #2 corner, and as you said, especially in this scheme. And he could have been had cheaply, given the interest around him. Coulda locked him up to a very reasonable deal, probably less than Scandrick got, and then proceeded to go get EITHER Carr or Claiborne, at the very least, and could have used some of those assets on the OL or DL.

But we constantly prioritize our CBs, to the detriment of everything else on this team, so I'm not shocked.

 

[Bob Roberts]

You guys were all down on Dez too, just sayin'.

I was the voice of reason

 

[Texas Ace]

You guys were all down on Dez too, just sayin'.

I was the voice of reason

I was never down on Dez - but even still, the difference is that Dez always flashed. Claiborne didn't flash anything close to elite ability last year.

 

[Clay_Allison]

I think they had a problem with Jenkins beyond whether he could actually play (and looking at him, I'm not shocked). Whether it was his pussing out of tackles or his reoccurring injuries, or whether they just didn't like him as a person, I think they more or less soured on him.

Which is too bad because if they would have massaged his ego and committed to him I think he'd be a fine corner, especially if he's only your #2 corner, and as you said, especially in this scheme. And he could have been had cheaply, given the interest around him. Coulda locked him up to a very reasonable deal, probably less than Scandrick got, and then proceeded to go get EITHER Carr or Claiborne, at the very least, and could have used some of those assets on the OL or DL.

But we constantly prioritize our CBs, to the detriment of everything else on this team, so I'm not shocked.

You have to tackle to play corner in this scheme. Corners support the run a lot in the Tampa 2