The Running Back position will doom us or not thread...

Genghis Khan said:
And now, I don't think we will be on the verge of a conference championship game this year without a running back.
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It's a little disengenuous to say "no RB". Unless you believe McFadden/Randle are worse than Hambrick/Cason any RB who's worthy of a roster spot should at least be somewhat effective behind this offensive line.
 
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Hambrick and Caison are not the standard I aspire to. What is disingenuous about saying they have no running back? They have two former draft busts, a never was, and a UDFA. Based on empirical data, we essentially have nothing at RB.
 
Genghis Khan said:
Our biggest issue last year was pass rush, because we had Murray last year. We don't get to Green bay in the second round without Murray, but we got there without a pass rush. Therefore once we let Murray go, RB became by far our biggest issue.

Regardless, we addressed pass rush. We mostly ignored RB. I don't think we wanted to ignore it. But we did.

And now, I don't think we will be on the verge of a conference championship game this year without a running back.
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I disagree. If we couldn't get past GB because of the pass rush not being able to get to a hobbled Rogers, it doesn't matter that we lost Murray. With an equivalent RB option, the pass rush issue remains should you get back to the same situation. The pass rush had to be upgraded.

Dallas was 2nd in rushing last year and 28th in sacks. The SB winner was 18th in rushing and tied for 13th in sacks. I think there can be more success by upping the sacks significantly and taking 20% hit rushing production.
 
I never said we didn't need to upgrade the pass rush. Of course we did. I said, in fact, it was our biggest problem last year.

But we created a huge hole by Murray walking and we haven't filled it. And that hole just happened to be one of the areas we leaned on heavily to get as far as we did last year.

And despite not having a pass rush, we had a good chance of beating GB last year on their field. In large part because of the dominant run game.

Great that we upgraded the pass rush. Not so great that we downgraded the running game.
 
Giants are the team I'm scared of, not the Eagles. If Eli doesn't play like a retard, they are going to have an extremely dangerous offense.
 
shane said:
Giants are the team I'm scared of, not the Eagles. If Eli doesn't play like a retard, they are going to have an extremely dangerous offense.
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Their offense always seems pretty good. The problem is their defense sucks donkey nuts and they haven't done anything to make me believe their defense will turn the corner.
 
townsend said:
isn't going to cut what? Cut it in the division? I sincerely doubt A+ passing and C+ rushing isn't enough to overtake the bag of ass that is Wash, NYG, and Philly.
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The passing will not be A+ without a running game to feed off of. Romo will be banged up and interception prone again if we can't keep balance on offense.
 
Clay_Allison said:
The passing will not be A+ without a running game to feed off of. Romo will be banged up and interception prone again if we can't keep balance on offense.
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true of any passing offense. But I didn't say no running game. I said C+. Or average. As in the type of rushing attack Romo never had in 2013 or 2014.

Also there's a big difference between a committed running game and a productive running game. Check the stats for 2008 I promise you we had a very productive running game.
 
townsend said:
true of any passing offense. But I didn't say no running game. I said C+. Or average. As in the type of rushing attack Romo never had in 2013 or 2014.

Also there's a big difference between a committed running game and a productive running game. Check the stats for 2008 I promise you we had a very productive running game.
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If we go 500 carries (comitted) and under 2000 yards (productive) with this offensive line I'll challenge any two navy men of your choice to a drinking contest.
 
Clay_Allison said:
If we go 500 carries (comitted) and under 2000 yards (productive) with this offensive line I'll challenge any two navy men of your choice to a drinking contest.
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My point exactly, drinking contest not withstanding. The key to winning has more to do with commitment to the run than YPC. Assuming that the move to run first was Linehan's influence, we should probably see at least 450 attempts. Since last year Linehan's role has expanded to OC, and the edict from the GM is "run damnit".

Even if these guys are schlubs, I can't see them averaging less than 4 YPC behind this line.
 
Genghis Khan said:
Great that we upgraded the pass rush. Not so great that we downgraded the running game.
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My point being even by giving up something in the running game, if the gain in pass rush is enough, it can overcome the loss.

For instance, we drop for 2nd in the league in rushing but rise from 4th worst in sacks to 14th; that can be enough to overcome the fall back in rushing.
 
Clay_Allison said:
If we go 500 carries (comitted) and under 2000 yards (productive) with this offensive line I'll challenge any two navy men of your choice to a drinking contest.
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I have a really hard time imaging this team averaging less then 4 ypc behind this offensive line.
 
townsend said:
We have 3 all-pros on the line. With a consensus top pick joining them. If you know of a defensive front that loaded, then yes, we will likely struggle against them.
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IMO it's about being able to threaten run almost regardless of the situation. Murray could run against an 8-man front because he consistently beat at least one defender.

You could have the Justice League on the offensive line but if your RB can't consistently beat that one defender the other team can contain your running game. You get Randle-syndrome, taking exactly what's blocked for you.

Then the down and distance charts will be screaming at the OC to pass the football. And Romo will succeed at it... until he doesn't. We've seen this before when the man feels like he has to do everything which is of course impossible.

Garrett has proven he doesn't have the coaching chops nor is the team built to run a pass-heavy, pass-first offense. Our supporting receivers have improved, but I don't know how much I trust them.
 
shane said:
Giants are the team I'm scared of, not the Eagles. If Eli doesn't play like a retard, they are going to have an extremely dangerous offense.
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They have a truly great WR and are solid at RB. They always seem to play physical defense, regardless of the talent.

Washington should also surprise. Terrance Knighton, Stephen Paea and Ricky Jean-Francois completely transform that DL to the point where the whole defense is better. All it takes is one great lineman offensively to make the entire OL better too, and they got the best lineman in college.

So I'd also add if RG3 doesn't play like a retard they also are going to be vastly improved.

With no proven WR or QB the one team most likely to plummet is actually Philly.
 
Genghis Khan said:
Lamar Miller is now my pet cat trade target. I think he'd be a superstar here. Hopefully he's available for a 4th or less. I might even go 3rd for him.
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So we wouldn't spend a 4th on the guy who made him expendable, but we'll give a 3rd for him...? :picard
 
ravidubey said:
IMO it's about being able to threaten run almost regardless of the situation. Murray could run against an 8-man front because he consistently beat at least one defender.

You could have the Justice League on the offensive line but if your RB can't consistently beat that one defender the other team can contain your running game. You get Randle-syndrome, taking exactly what's blocked for you.

Then the down and distance charts will be screaming at the OC to pass the football. And Romo will succeed at it... until he doesn't. We've seen this before when the man feels like he has to do everything which is of course impossible.

Garrett has proven he doesn't have the coaching chops nor is the team built to run a pass-heavy, pass-first offense. Our supporting receivers have improved, but I don't know how much I trust them.
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You keep saying Randle can't make any body miss when the evidence has been posted multiple times showing him make people miss, so that narrative is unequivically false.

let's also examine the fact that Randle showed a ability to take it to house something Murray could not do last year.

Should that also be factored into the analysis of the running game.?
 
ravidubey said:
IMO it's about being able to threaten run almost regardless of the situation. Murray could run against an 8-man front because he consistently beat at least one defender.

You could have the Justice League on the offensive line but if your RB can't consistently beat that one defender the other team can contain your running game. You get Randle-syndrome, taking exactly what's blocked for you.

Then the down and distance charts will be screaming at the OC to pass the football. And Romo will succeed at it... until he doesn't. We've seen this before when the man feels like he has to do everything which is of course impossible.

Garrett has proven he doesn't have the coaching chops nor is the team built to run a pass-heavy, pass-first offense. Our supporting receivers have improved, but I don't know how much I trust them.
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I feel that Garrett wants to be a run first guy, but his instincts combined with Romo's mentality can give him tunnel vision. Linehan is a much more disciplined playcaller, who can have a feel for the game. It's not like it took Garrtett getting stumped to force him to abandone the run. He did it with top backs who were tearing up the other team with 7 YPC.

With his hand off the button, I think Garrett is happy with us running the ball.

The way I see it. Randle can break tackles. We have plenty of video evidence of this. If they can't stop him without putting 8 in the box, our line has given Romo the advantage. That's the difference between worst rushing offense and a mediocre rushing offense.
 
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