Sullivan: Garrett’s 3-Year Plan Among Random Thoughts

[L.T. Fan]

Just curious who is going to get credit if this team has playoff success in the next few years. I'm not even talking Super Bowl, but a few years of getting into the playoffs and winning some games. I realized this is dealing in hypotheticals and I don't know that it's going to happen, but what if it does? I know for damn sure no one is going to give Jerry Jones credit. He'll get the "in spite of himself" treatment (which will probably be mostly accurate). Seems pretty clear that no one is going to give credit to Jason Garrett either, even if he is the head coach that gets them there.

So who then? Just the plain ole dumb luck, blind squirrel/nut explanation?

Why would it be earth shattering if Jones did in fact receive some credit? It's almost a majority opinion that Garrett is a borderline coach. That leaves the drafting successes for the past few years and there is a dispute as to who did what. So far this season the difference makers seem to be the new Coordinators and the players that have been added to the defense. Who did that? It seems apparent to me that Jones almost has to have some involvement in the dynamics that are in play currently. The bugaboo is that it sticks in some craws to even think they have to conceed that possibility.

 

[superpunk]

Only at the DCC could we start 5-1 and look better on both sides of the ball than we have in 20 years and be arguing about who gets credit. Do any of us truly give a shit?

I told you the scenario I give Garrett credit. If he can do it with different coordinators, he gets credit. Because he has already proven without a doubt he can't do it with him calling the plays and being the OC.

Or the players drafted. Garrett is getting way too much credit for our OL draft selections. I distinctly remember watching him sulk on the war room cam when we passed of Floyd. Grand design my ass. He got lucky to be taken out of his own damn way by dumb luck, especially on the Martin pick.

all over the place

 

[NoDak]

What I mean is, yeah, 2009 DC Wade is better as an Xs and Os coordinator than say, 2013 OC Jason Garrett.

Another loophole.

Ayuh. And while he is correct about 2009 DC Wade being better than 2013 OC Garrett, he's still bobbing and weaving like Ali in his prime, trying his damnedest to not admit that DC Wade is better than OC Garrett in every other God damn year, too.

 

[NoDak]

I'm just curious who else will be ready to admit that and who is so jaded that they'll go out of their way to give everyone but those guys the credit.

 

[Smitty]

Ayuh. And while he is correct about 2009 DC Wade being better than 2013 OC Garrett, he's still bobbing and weaving like Ali in his prime, trying his damnedest to not admit that DC Wade is better than OC Garrett in every other God damn year, too.

If your question is "was every single one of Wade's coordinator performances better than every single one of Garrett's coordinator performances" I don't think I could say unquivocably yes. Frankly, I thought Garrett was pretty good in 2007 and I'm sure I could find a year where Wade turned in what I'd consider an inferior performance (say.... 2010).

In general, yes, Wade is better as an X's and O's guy. I'm not sure how much clearer that can be, or why that is somehow dodging the issue.

However... I'd also never want Wade on my team, even as a coordinator.

 

[boozeman]

or you can just ascribe it to absolutely nothing other than dumb luck because you have an ax to grind against everyone who actually deserves credit and you're too stubborn to admit when you're wrong

Sounds like a better comment to make when we have actually done it. "Credit" right now does not mean a lot.

 

[superpunk]

then maybe people should say lets wait rather than arguing vehemently about how jerry and garrett don't deserve credit for anything that happens here

 

[boozeman]

I'd give credit to both Jerry and Garrett. Along with both offensive and defensive staffs. It's not like these players just magically appeared and coached themselves. Somebody had to have a say in acquiring them. And the coaches thus far, Garrett included, have done a good job putting them in position to succeed.

There have been some changes in the college and pro personnel departments as well that can have an effect.

All in all, it never is an either or. It wasn't all Jerry or all Jimmy that won us Super Bowls. There was a little of both, then some luck.

There are different degrees, obviously.

 

[NoDak]

If your question is "was every single one of Wade's coordinator performances better than every single one of Garrett's coordinator performances" I don't think I could say unquivocably yes. Frankly, I thought Garrett was pretty good in 2007 and I'm sure I could find a year where Wade turned in what I'd consider an inferior performance (say.... 2010).

In general, yes, Wade is better as an X's and O's guy. I'm not sure how much clearer that can be, or why that is somehow dodging the issue.

However... I'd also never want Wade on my team, even as a coordinator.

Spin, spin, spin. Nobody said to break down each and every game performance. That's your stupid attempt at deflection. You are the one adding in all the other subjective crap. You are the one attaching the 'probably' and 'basically'. And now your new one... 'In general...'

The question was simple. Has Wade been a better defensive coordinator than Garrett has been an offensive coordinator. One word answer. Yes or no. You are incapable of doing that without some sort of dissertation involved.

 

[Smitty]

Spin, spin, spin. Nobody said to break down each and every game performance. That's your stupid attempt at deflection. You are the one adding in all the other subjective crap. You are the one attaching the 'probably' and 'basically'. And now your new one... 'In general...'

The question was simple. Has Wade been a better defensive coordinator than Garrett has been an offensive coordinator. One word answer. Yes or no. You are incapable of doing that without some sort of dissertation involved.

When have I ever been someone to give one word answers?

It's not spin, it's just a nuanced response. It requires more analysis than just saying "Wade is a better coordinator." Yeah, if you could strip from him his inevitable collapses because he's a pushover, and in a world where Garrett never has a good offensive line like the past 3-4 seasons. Unfortunately, that's fantasy world.

In that respect, no one who ever turns their team into abject losers within a couple seasons could ever be considered a "good coordinator." The entire exercise is one that is purely conjecture, and thus, requires a response that is a bit more detailed.

 

[NoDak]

No, it's not a 'nuanced' response. It's a copout. You could easily say yes or no. Then spin off into your novellas that nobody cares enough about to read. But if you did that, you wouldn't have your out. Your loophole. Your excuse to wiggle out later on.

And worst of all, how would you be able to face your Jason Garrett doll if you were to besmirch his fine name by admitting he wasn't as good a coordinator as Fat Wade. Oh, the horrors.

 

[Smitty]

Well, again, name someone who doesn't lead his team into collapse in 4 seasons or less every time and maybe I could say it more definitively.

But even as a coordinator.... Wade..... 2013 Houston Texans.

~fart~

 

[NoDak]

Why would I have to name somebody else? We're not comparing Wade and Garrett to Dick LeBeau and Bill Walsh. We are comparing them to EACH OTHER.

Not sure why that is so hard to understand. Or if this is just another of your deflection tactics. I'm leaning heavily towards the latter.



Was the fart thing supposed to be some kind of humor, or about what your argument is worth? Again, I'll go with the latter...

 

[Smitty]

Why would I have to name somebody else? We're not comparing Wade and Garrett to Dick LeBeau and Bill Walsh. We are comparing them to EACH OTHER.

Not sure why that is so hard to understand. Or if this is just another of your deflection tactics. I'm leaning heavily towards the latter.



Was the fart thing supposed to be some kind of humor, or about what your argument is worth? Again, I'll go with the latter...

It was representative of the kind of job Wade inevitably does, coordinator or otherwise.

Which is why it's not a yes or no answer.

 

[NoDak]

You bore me, Schmitty. Your arguments all devolve into the same spin job with you. You either can't or won't admit when you're wrong, so you throw mass amounts of mundane crap out, in the hopes of burying people in boredom.

You were successful. I'm out.

 

[Smitty]

Speaking of being irrational, only an irrational hater could have someone tell them "Yes, you are right for the most part" and then spend the next ten pages demanding that they receive 100% compliance OR ELSE! GRRR

It's why the Nodaks and Iamtdgs of the world have no more credibility on this matter than they accuse me of having.

SAY GARRETT SUCKS OR ELSE!! SAY IT!!!!

Yeah, for the most part, Wade is more skilled as an X's and O's tactician. However, when his goofball persona leads a team to tune him out, he's utterly ineffective and he sucks as a coordinator. Given that this happens every 3-4 years or so with him, you have to factor that into your evaluation. Additionally, it's not as if Garrett is completely unskilled as a tactician despite what you'd hear on this board. He'd win a few in a head-to-head against Wade in that contest.

Sorry that the complicated facts come off as "spin" to those who have no tolerance for divergence from their tired old song and dance about Garrett being a dummy.

 

[superpunk]

Speaking of being irrational, only an irrational hater could have someone tell them "Yes, you are right for the most part" and then spend the next ten pages demanding that they receive 100% compliance OR ELSE! GRRR

It's why the Nodaks and Iamtdgs of the world have no more credibility on this matter than they accuse me of having.

SAY GARRETT SUCKS OR ELSE!! SAY IT!!!!

Yeah, for the most part, Wade is more skilled as an X's and O's tactician. However, when his goofball persona leads a team to tune him out, he's utterly ineffective and he sucks as a coordinator. Given that this happens every 3-4 years or so with him, you have to factor that into your evaluation. Additionally, it's not as if Garrett is completely unskilled as a tactician despite what you'd hear on this board. He'd win a few in a head-to-head against Wade in that contest.

Sorry that the complicated facts come off as "spin" to those who have no tolerance for divergence from their tired old song and dance about Garrett being a dummy.

omg stay down

just stay down

 

[L.T. Fan]

Spin, spin, spin. Nobody said to break down each and every game performance. That's your stupid attempt at deflection. You are the one adding in all the other subjective crap. You are the one attaching the 'probably' and 'basically'. And now your new one... 'In general...'

The question was simple. Has Wade been a better defensive coordinator than Garrett has been an offensive coordinator. One word answer. Yes or no. You are incapable of doing that without some sort of dissertation involved.

Yes.

 

[boozeman]

When have I ever been someone to give one word answers?

Sorry, this was fucking funny as shit.

 

[NoDak]

If you can point out where I have said GARRETT SUCKS, I'll admit you are right. In fact, I've done quite the opposite in this thread. I've said I do give him credit, and would give him more if we were to go on to playoff success.

If not, it's just another of your longwinded, filled with bullshit say nothing posts.

Par for the course.