Russia Invades Ukraine

Chocolate Lab said:
Well yeah, that's obviously absurd on its face. We clearly don't need Ukraine for anything.
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I mean if you want to get Trump to give you more, getting down on your knees and calling him a god amongst children is probably your best bet. You have to feed into Trump's ego. Trying to take him down a peg will end in disaster. Which is what happened. Just talking from the perspective of Ukraine in all of this.
 
Cotton said:
Sorry, brother, we normally agree on everything. But that was fucking awesome to watch.
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No apology needed. :art I don't disagree with what Trump said, I'd just say it in private. I guess I've always liked how Trump was really tough in private, but let the other guy save face in public. Maybe VZ was being an ass in private and Trump wanted to show him up, I don't know.
 
Chocolate Lab said:
I mean, I don't blame Zelenskyyyyyy for trying to get what he can. That's kind of his job. And he is in a tough spot. Nobody would like part of their country taken by a foreign power.

But that doesn't mean we just give him everything he wants with barely a check on it. We can't fight every war in the world. Even if it sounds good in principle, it isn't feasible. We simply can't be the world's policemen in every matter.

And to be honest, I think an exchange like that should happen behind closed doors. I think that guy is pretty crooked but I'm not sure it's necessary to humiliate him in public like that.
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Supposedly he wanted US ground troops. If that's true they went light on him.

 
Genghis Khan said:
Supposedly he wanted US ground troops. If that's true they went light on him.

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Yeah, don't get me wrong, that's total bullshit. You don't even ask for our young men and women to die on those bloodlands over there. That's insane.

I guess part of what I said earlier is I don't want him to become more of a sympathetic figure. I do think he's in a tough spot, but I also have no doubt he's gotten filthy rich on this whole fiasco.
 
Chocolate Lab said:
Yeah, don't get me wrong, that's total bullshit. You don't even ask for our young men and women to die on those bloodlands over there. That's insane.

I guess part of what I said earlier is I don't want him to become more of a sympathetic figure. I do think he's in a tough spot, but I also have no doubt he's gotten filthy rich on this whole fiasco.
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He is definitely in a tough spot, but he put himself squarely in that spot. His only recourse at this point is a public apology, or resignation from my perspective. Honestly, I think resignation would be best for the entire planet.
 
roughneck266 said:
He is definitely in a tough spot, but he put himself squarely in that spot. His only recourse at this point is a public apology, or resignation from my perspective. Honestly, I think resignation would be best for the entire planet.
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I think this will be over soon and he'll go live the rest of his life in France or something.
 
Chocolate Lab said:
but I also have no doubt he's gotten filthy rich on this whole fiasco.
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Yep. And therefore no sympathy.

But regardless he's been operating all along like he has any sort of leverage whatsoever. And Trump and Vance rightly pointed out that he does not. I guess he still feels empowered after dealing with the pushovers in the Biden administration.

Part of the reason why I think it was good to do this publicly is because if he doesn't want to ceasefire or negotiate peace maybe he can be shamed publicly into it.

Because it needs to be clear to him that a peace deal is the only thing we'll accept. And if he won't do it we're willing to walk away entirely. Having that public sends a strong message.
 
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Genghis Khan said:
Yep. And therefore no sympathy.

But regardless he's been operating all along like he has any sort of leverage whatsoever. And Trump and Vance rightly pointed out that he does not. I guess he still feels empowered after dealing with the pushovers in the Biden administration.

Part of the reason why I think it was good to do this publicly is because of he doesn't want to ceasefire or negotiate peace maybe he can be shamed publicly into it.

Because it needs to be clear to him that a peace deal is the only thing we'll accept. And if he won't do it we're willing to walk away entirely. Having that public sends a strong message.
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I am fairly certain that was our intention all along. I could be wrong, but it certainly made Trump's point that Zelinsky isn't really a good guy glaringly obvious to me.
 
This very well could be their only hope. They can distance themselves from him, get a new leader hopefully, and get out of this war. I hope so for their sakes.
 
Chocolate Lab said:
I mean, I don't blame Zelenskyyyyyy for trying to get what he can. That's kind of his job. And he is in a tough spot. Nobody would like part of their country taken by a foreign power.

But that doesn't mean we just give him everything he wants with barely a check on it. We can't fight every war in the world. Even if it sounds good in principle, it isn't feasible. We simply can't be the world's policemen in every matter.

And to be honest, I think an exchange like that should happen behind closed doors. I think that guy is pretty crooked but I'm not sure it's necessary to humiliate him in public like that.
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Yeah I thought it was a bit unbecoming.
 
Smitty said:
Yeah I thought it was a bit unbecoming.
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Zelenskyyyyyyyyy didn't even wear a suit which shows zero respect for the process and was trying to push back as if he has any leverage whatsoever to escalate a war we don't want to be a part of in the first place.. Not sure he's earned "becoming".

The only thing he's earned is public excoriation which is what he got.
 
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