Poll: Obama worst president since WWII

[2233boys]

I do agree that lawyers and insurance companies are the bane of this country. They are why things like prescriptions and health care is so high. The amount of insurance a doctor has to carry is stupidly ridiculous to cover them against tort law and malpractice lawsuits.

That's the first thing that could be changed or addressed to help lower costs.

 

[NoDak]

I said they didn't have the same opportunities. There is a difference between opportunities and advantages.

Semantics. So if there is such a difference, show us where he was being dishonest by suggesting everyone has the same opportunities as you said he did.

He supported the people before him, we are supporting him and our children will support us, or did you believe what he paid into social security when he was working is enough to cover him for the rest if his life?

Yeah. I understand how SS works. And I never said it would completely support him. It was you that said you don't want to support him. Something tells me that LT won't need one cent of your support, even if SS were to disappear today. Much less use any of the programs you were implying in your weak attempt at a humorous zinger.

 

[Cotton]

I said they didn't have the same opportunities. There is a difference between opportunities and advantages.

He supported the people before him, we are supporting him and our children will support us, or did you believe what he paid into social security when he was working is enough to cover him for the rest if his life?

For your reading pleasure http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/10/16/5-facts-about-social-security/

That's because Social Security is basically a loan you are giving to the gov't. It wasn't meant that way... it has evolved to that over decades of mismanagement.

 

[Cotton]

Oh, and to suggest that LT or anyone shouldn't get back the money they paid in is retarded at the very best.

 

[UncleMilti]

I am for decentralizing the government as much as we can. Obamacare is destined for failure.

That said, I think everyone can agree that the system is/has been broken based on some of the anecdotes about doctors able to bypass insurance and charging two different prices to insurance companies and patients. So why in 8 years of a Republican president was healthcare reform never tackled, aside from the rhetoric about frivolous malpractice suits?

Also, framing everything as "us workin' folk" versus the "shitstain deadbeats" makes supposedly conservative people sound like assholes. It also comes off as pretty un-Christian (not that all conservatives are or claim to be Christians). Just saying.

I have no problem coming across that way- if in fact it was directed at me.

I get it both ways- as a Small Business owner paying jacked up taxes and a tax payer that has worked every day of my life since I was 17. So yeah, I do have a me against them mentality for the most part.

It simply sends me in orbit to see seemingly healthy people, illegal immigrants, and 15 year old mothers with 5 kids stand in line for their weekly handouts. Its bullshit.

Now- I have no problem with LEGITIMATE people in need....there will always be people that need assistance. And that's what welfare and handouts were originally for. Sadly, the actual people who truly need the help are a MINORITY when it comes to gov't help.

But this fucking disaster this country has going on now with perfectly capable working people and illegals sitting idley by waiting on their handouts to arrive???

Shit.

And if you are going to throw Christianity into the mix...how about applying it to the lying shitbags who bilk the taxpayers so they can live off others for free. I think its un-christianlike to lie, isn't it?

 

[2233boys]

Semantics. So if there is such a difference, show us where he was being dishonest by suggesting everyone has the same opportunities as you said he did.

Yeah. I understand how SS works. And I never said it would completely support him. It was you that said you don't want to support him. Something tells me that LT won't need one cent of your support, even if SS were to disappear today. Much less use any of the programs you were implying in your weak attempt at a humorous zinger.

If you think everyone has the same opportunities there really isn't much of a point of carrying on this discussion with you.

Hopefully he does because if he doesn't he is using our dollars to support himself, something he is adamantly opposed to when it comes to his dollars helping others. It strikes me as hypocritical. I don't begrudge him those services I just think people with that thought process about helping others should be consistent when it comes to their own lives.

 

[2233boys]

Oh, and to suggest that LT or anyone shouldn't get back the money they paid in is retarded at the very best.

I don't begrudge him those services. He is opposed to the government helping others, I'm just asking for consistency when it comes to his own life.

 

[Cotton]

If you think everyone has the same opportunities there really isn't much of a point of carrying on this discussion with you.

Hopefully he does because if he doesn't he is using our dollars to support himself, something he is adamantly opposed to when it comes to his dollars helping others. It strikes me as hypocritical. I don't begrudge him those services I just think people with that thought process about helping others should be consistent when it comes to their own lives.

To say they don't is dishonest. Our gov't has gone above and beyond (read: affirmative action and minority scholarships) to balance shit out. The opportunities are there, but at the the same time a second choice is being given, and that's the whole we will pay for your shit instead of you busting your ass to take advantage of the opportunities provided to them instead of using their upbringing as a crutch to live the same way their parents did. It's lazy and par for the course today.

 

[2233boys]

Fair enough I disagree.

 

[NoDak]

If you think everyone has the same opportunities there really isn't much of a point of carrying on this discussion with you.

Hopefully he does because if he doesn't he is using our dollars to support himself, something he is adamantly opposed to when it comes to his dollars helping others. It strikes me as hypocritical. I don't begrudge him those services I just think people with that thought process about helping others should be consistent when it comes to their own lives.

You're struggling mightily with comprehension, here. Show me where I said, or even implied that I think everyone has the same opportunities. And while you're at it, show me where LT did. All he said was people DID NOT have the same advantages. He said nothing about opportunities. This was your invention. But you skipped over that when asked for it in the last post. I wonder why...

And if you don't begrudge him those services, why say what you did about not wanting to support him? Wouldn't be that weak attempt at humor I was talking about, would it?

 

[skidadl]

I know some here aren't but many profess to be Christians Matthew 25:35-40

You are really misusing that scripture. While I agree that we should as individual believers obey this scripture it isn't talking about governments.

 

[2233boys]

I believed he eluded to it and you defending his statements made me believe you did as well. Looking back at what he said I made a leap, that was my fault. "but everyone has the freedom to try to make something happen." This what he said that made me jump to that conclusion. My apologies LT

That was tongue and cheek but it illustrated my point. He has said he didn't want to support others through his tax dollars and if he used those services I would be in part supporting him. I have no problem helping people out in need or through my tax dollars. Whether you agree with me or not I am generally pretty consistent in my beliefs.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Not everyone does have the same opportunities to suggest otherwise is dishonest. You have a job no health care through your employer, a family of four, half your paycheck a week or more goes to your insurance. Go Mr. Create your own destiny how is that family supposed to survive. Prescriptions are jacked up to make the most profit, a physical is $50-100. The cost are outrageous and Health insurance isn't affordable for the working poor. It just isn't.

I hope you never ever collect social security or Medicare. Create your own retirement mister I don't want to support you.

You are telling me about how tough life is? I have already lived it and it's likely I could give you a few tips. No need to tell me about everyone not having the same advantages. I have already stated that. Everyone does have the same opportunity to make more of themselves however.

 

[skidadl]

[MENTION=30]2233boys[/MENTION] do you give to the poor out of your own pocket? Do you contribute to charities that provide medical services to the poor? How much? Are you just throwing around scriptures accusing folks around you without holding yourself to the same standard?

The truth is, the bible states that you should give to ANYONE in need. Do you do that? Are you willing to downgrade your lifestyle, move into a smaller house, drive really old cars, shop at the thrift store and live semi-poor in order to bring someone else to your level? If not you might wanta simmer down there, hot rod.

 

[2233boys]

You are really misusing that scripture. While I agree that we should as individual believers obey this scripture it isn't talking about governments.

No it isn't talking about governments but I believe it speaks to helping others out in need. Pretty much dismissing those in need by saying they are deadbeats and refusing to help in anyway isn't right. In that context I don't believe I misused it at all.

 

[Cotton]

I believed he eluded to it and you defending his statements made me believe you did as well. Looking back at what he said I made a leap, that was my fault. "but everyone has the freedom to try to make something happen." This what he said that made me jump to that conclusion. My apologies LT

That was tongue and cheek but it illustrated my point. He has said he didn't want to support others through his tax dollars and if he used those services I would be in part supporting him. I have no problem helping people out in need or through my tax dollars. Whether you agree with me or not I am generally pretty consistent in my beliefs.

Here is where we differ most. I do believe this statement. People may not all start at the same starting line, but the things put in place by our gov't has staggered that starting line to make it much more fair. Tipping the balance the other way in some cases.

 

[skidadl]

No it isn't talking about governments but I believe it speaks to helping others out in need. Pretty much dismissing those in need by saying they are deadbeats and refusing to help in anyway isn't right. In that context I don't believe I misused it at all.

Right but the bible says that you should help others. It doesn't say you should force other people to or to yell at everyone that doesn't.

 

[skidadl]

2233, when was the last time you took someone poor or needy into your home?

 

[Jiggyfly]

You are telling me about how tough life is? I have already lived it and it's likely I could give you a few tips. No need to tell me about everyone not having the same advantages. I have already stated that. Everyone does have the same opportunity to make more of themselves however.

LT how much experience do you have dealing with people out of your social and cultural circles because you sound like a guy that's making judgements based mostly on your life experiences.

 

[Kbrown]

I have no problem coming across that way- if in fact it was directed at me.

I get it both ways- as a Small Business owner paying jacked up taxes and a tax payer that has worked every day of my life since I was 17. So yeah, I do have a me against them mentality for the most part.

It simply sends me in orbit to see seemingly healthy people, illegal immigrants, and 15 year old mothers with 5 kids stand in line for their weekly handouts. Its bullshit.

Now- I have no problem with LEGITIMATE people in need....there will always be people that need assistance. And that's what welfare and handouts were originally for. Sadly, the actual people who truly need the help are a MINORITY when it comes to gov't help.

But this fucking disaster this country has going on now with perfectly capable working people and illegals sitting idley by waiting on their handouts to arrive???

Shit.

And if you are going to throw Christianity into the mix...how about applying it to the lying shitbags who bilk the taxpayers so they can live off others for free. I think its un-christianlike to lie, isn't it?

We mostly agree in practice. I just tend to think characterizing people as shitbags or whatever isn't productive. Not particularly "directed" at anyone, even if I did use examples from things you said.

FWIW, I think the welfare queen and all that are less common than certain demagogue politicians perpetuate to keep themselves elected.