Official Manziel To Dallas? Griffin To Dallas? Thread

[Cotton]

 

[boozeman]

This isn't Hardy blackout drunk situation anymore. This is Joseph Randle, batshit crazy area Manziel has wondered into. I seriously hope he gets the mental help he needs. This clearly isn't just a kid who likes to party too much.

What is funny is both Randle and Manziel had the same agent.

 

[ravidubey]

Johnny's addicted to his college personality. It's truly f'ed up.

But I was never, ever sold on his physical skills translating into the NFL. I think he flat out sucks and frankly don't get the f'ing hype.

Sure, if he ever got his head straight he might attain limited success in a Doug Flutie kind of way, but people forget how awful Flutie was much of the time. People focused on his limited success because they really liked the guy.

From a draft perspective, I was stunned Manziel went in the first round. I thought at a stretch he might be a late 3rd rounder because of the hype, but I would have evaluated him as a 5th or 6th round guy. And personally I wouldn't want Dallas drafting a QB later than the 3rd round-- so I wouldn't have drafted him at all.

 

[BipolarFuk]

I think he could be a good QB if he magically developed a Peyton Manning work ethic.

Probably still not good enough to carry a team, however.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Clear drug addiction problems and potentially mental health issues as well. Good thing Stephen Jones talked us out of that pick cause I would have taken him that draft (of course, I didn't have access to background checks either).

It sure seems like some serious mental health issues to me unless he is just on some really crazy drugs. This isn't weed, alcohol and cocaine though and I would be really surprised if he doesn't have some type of mental disorder of at least bipolar.

It's too bad because I really do like some of his physical talent. He is mobile, has a great arm, and is capable of making those special highlight plays. He even made some in the NFL in his limited playing time. But being mentally right is probably more important at the QB position then any other position on the field. Manziel needs to take care of that without even thinking about football at this point.

 

[Simpleton]

Manziel seems unwilling to even acknowledge that he has a problem or accept help, if this isn't rock bottom where you become willing to admit your faults and get help then what is?

I don't think it's just a matter of the guy being addicted to some sort of substance, there are plenty of NFL players who drink, smoke weed, probably even do coke and so forth and they are completely fine on the field and generally together. It's the fact that this guy has legitimate mental issues combined with whatever the hell he's doing on the side.

 

[Jiggyfly]

 

[VA Cowboy]

I never thought his game would translate to the NFL. Too much playground improvised flukiness that ended up working at A&M but wasn't likely to work in the NFL. That's they main reason I didn't want him in the first round. Now with all the out of control sideshow business, it's a no-brainer.

 

[VA Cowboy]

IRVING, Texas -- At a personnel meeting after the 2015 season ended, the Dallas Cowboys all but closed the door on the possibility of adding Johnny Manziel in 2016, multiple sources told ESPN.

According to sources, Manziel's name was one of several that came up in the internal meeting, and it was met with the same reaction it got during the NFL draft in 2014, when the Cowboys passed on the troubled quarterback in the first round.

Those meetings occurred before Manziel allegedly struck his ex-girlfriend several times during an incident last weekend at a downtown Dallas hotel. Despite the allegations, Manziel wasn't charged by the Fort Worth or Dallas police departments, which said Thursday that they consider their investigations closed.

Johnny Manziel's father says his son has refused to enter rehab facilities twice in the past week and that he is concerned the QB "won't live to see his 24th birthday."

Agent drops Manziel in wake of latest incident
Johnny Manziel's agent released a statement Friday saying he is cutting ties with the Browns quarterback after his latest incident.


Johnny Manziel called claims that he struck his ex-girlfriend several times Saturday false. Police say their investigation into the quarterback, who was never charged, is closed.
A source told ESPN earlier this week that the Cleveland Browns will cut ties with Manziel in March.

The Cowboys have frequently been linked to Manziel because of owner Jerry Jones' affinity for the former Heisman Trophy winner, which was evident both before and after the 2014 draft.

As Manziel slipped in the first round of the draft, Jones mentioned the possibility of selecting him with the 16th overall pick, but received no backing from the rest of the draft room. Instead, the Cowboys selected Zack Martin in the first round, and the guard has gone to the Pro Bowl in each of his first two seasons.

That did not stop Jones from lamenting the decision publicly on a number of occasions, although he has steered clear of any potential tampering issues, since Manziel remains under contract with the Browns.

The Cowboys need some quarterback help behind Tony Romo. They own the fourth pick in the draft and could look to find Romo's backup and potential successor there.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...016-season?ex_cid=sportscenterTW&sf20443376=1





Now if we can just get RGIII to punch someone.

 

[L.T. Fan]

I have said this before but I have friends that now the Manziel family and the primary reason he is like he is (somewhat nutzo) is because that's the environment he was raised in. Some of his family members are thugs and his parents gave him everything he wanted. He doesn't know how to be normal. How he is acting is normal for him. Chances are he will spend time in prison sooner or later or meet his demise.

 

[Clay_Allison]

I have said this before but I have friends that now the Manziel family and the primary reason he is like he is (somewhat nutzo) is because that's the environment he was raised in. Some of his family members are thugs and his parents gave him everything he wanted. He doesn't know how to be normal. How he is acting is normal for him. Chances are he will spend time in prison sooner or later or meet his demise.

He's the kind of guy that might actually benefit from doing some time.

 

[Simpleton]

Here's the thing, ever since we chose Martin over Manziel this organization has made very logical, thought out moves.

Letting Murray go was the right decision, we should have done more to address the RB position but there was a clear logic behind what we did (even with the disastrous over the top faith in Randle) but despite all of that, McFadden still finished top 5 in the league in rushing without Romo and Dez for the most part. The front office was right in their assumption that they could have a good running game without giving Murray 7-8 a year based off the strength of the OL, the threat of the passing game with Romo/Dez, etc., they just went too cheap in terms of not investing any picks or just banking on Randle/McFadden.

We played hard ball with Dez but eventually signed him, it wasn't handled well but at the end of the day he was signed, which was the right decision.

Our main fault in 2014 was a lack of pass rush, so what do we do? Take a calculated risk on a top DE in Hardy and a top prospect in Gregory. Risky? Sure, but the logic behind it is clear. We had a dominant offense in 2014, we assumed that would nearly be the case again in 2015 where the defense would be playing with leads, the difference now would be that we'd have a much improved pass rush.

My point here is that you can say that the front office hasn't evaluated certain positions well (Randle at RB being the clear example) but you can't really say that the organization has just been flailing around chasing shiny objects, they've made logical, calculated decisions as best as they could.

When you consider what we've done at the backup QB position since Garrett has been around there is no logical explanation for going after a guy like Manziel who is a complete mess off the field and not a fit on it. Griffin is in the same boat, obviously to a lesser extent because he doesn't have the off the field stuff, but I still seriously doubt we sign him because of the attention he brings and the fact that he doesn't fit what we've historically done at the backup spot under Garrett, as well as the type of offense that we run.

The only argument people have for us signing Griffin is basically that Jones is going to go off the deep end and chase shiny objects, which isn't impossible, but I don't think it's logical when looking at the organization's recent past.

 

[Cotton]

 

[Carp]

I am commenting on you having a problem with us not taking a QB at 4 because he was not ranked that high.

If Goff goes to Cleve at 2 it's not crazy to say the other QB's would be ranked lower than some other people at 4, Wentz is being projected all over the place at this time.

The mocks comment was concerning both QB's are not consensus top 4 picks so why is crazy to think Dallas might not feel the same?

I could give two shits if another position was rated slightly higher than the QB we are locked in on. QB is far and away the most important position on the field, so that takes priority.

For instance...if on our board Wentz/Goff/Lynch were rated 8 or 9, I would "reach" for a QB before I'd take a CB, S, LB, or DE at 4. The one caveat would would be Bosa. We don't seem to go by our board anyways, if we did then Floyd would be on the team.

3 of the 4 QBs in the AFC/NFC championship games were not only first round picks, but first player taken overall.

3 of 6 QBs in the AFC were first rounders, while 4 of 6 were first rounders in the NFC.

Since Aikman retired we have not taken a QB in the first round...no Super Bowl wins either. I'm not counting Steve Walsh either.

Bottom line is this team tries to get cute when addressing the QB position. Finding Romo was beyond lucky and former baseball players just aren't panning out either...so maybe it is time to invest in a QB early.

 

[Simpleton]

I could give two shits if another position was rated slightly higher than the QB we are locked in on. QB is far and away the most important position on the field, so that takes priority.

For instance...if on our board Wentz/Goff/Lynch were rated 8 or 9, I would "reach" for a QB before I'd take a CB, S, LB, or DE at 4. The one caveat would would be Bosa. We don't seem to go by our board anyways, if we did then Floyd would be on the team.

3 of the 4 QBs in the AFC/NFC championship games were not only first round picks, but first player taken overall.

3 of 6 QBs in the AFC were first rounders, while 4 of 6 were first rounders in the NFC.

Since Aikman retired we have not taken a QB in the first round...no Super Bowl wins either. I'm not counting Steve Walsh either.

Bottom line is this team tries to get cute when addressing the QB position. Finding Romo was beyond lucky and former baseball players just aren't panning out either...so maybe it is time to invest in a QB early.

This.

 

[dallen]

I could give two shits if another position was rated slightly higher than the QB we are locked in on. QB is far and away the most important position on the field, so that takes priority.

For instance...if on our board Wentz/Goff/Lynch were rated 8 or 9, I would "reach" for a QB before I'd take a CB, S, LB, or DE at 4. The one caveat would would be Bosa. We don't seem to go by our board anyways, if we did then Floyd would be on the team.

3 of the 4 QBs in the AFC/NFC championship games were not only first round picks, but first player taken overall.

3 of 6 QBs in the AFC were first rounders, while 4 of 6 were first rounders in the NFC.

Since Aikman retired we have not taken a QB in the first round...no Super Bowl wins either. I'm not counting Steve Walsh either.

Bottom line is this team tries to get cute when addressing the QB position. Finding Romo was beyond lucky and former baseball players just aren't panning out either...so maybe it is time to invest in a QB early.

QB is the most important position in team sports. If you need one and there is one available you take him period.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I don't think it's just a matter of the guy being addicted to some sort of substance, there are plenty of NFL players who drink, smoke weed, probably even do coke and so forth and they are completely fine on the field and generally together. It's the fact that this guy has legitimate mental issues combined with whatever the hell he's doing on the side.

I think people with mental illness really struggle with admitting or even knowing they have it. Unfortunately as an attorney I deal with my fair share of crazy people. And some of them with a medical diagnosis still refuse to accept that they have any mental illness.

 

[VA Cowboy]

Since Aikman retired we have not taken a QB in the first round...no Super Bowl wins either. I'm not counting Steve Walsh either.

Bottom line is this team tries to get cute when addressing the QB position. Finding Romo was beyond lucky and former baseball players just aren't panning out either...so maybe it is time to invest in a QB early.

And what's worse is, since Aikman retired we've only drafted two QB's total, QC in the late 2nd and Stephen McGee in the 4th. The much used excuse was taking a QB early is risky and it takes them time to develop so we end up drafting a more immediate starter at another position. But those excuses are bogus because it's even riskier to have the franchise rely on projects, former baseball players, undrafted FA's. And the same excuse about taking time to develop was used for over a decade as a reason not to take a WR in the 1st. But then when we finally took Dez he contributed immediately.

Now there are a lot of first round QBs who busted or didn't fully pan out. But there's also players at other positions, like Claiborne who didn't pan out and we used a 1st and 2nd to move up for him. So worrying about a bust is irrelevant since it can happen at any position.

3 of the 4 QBs in the AFC/NFC championship games were not only first round picks, but first player taken overall.

3 of 6 QBs in the AFC were first rounders, while 4 of 6 were first rounders in the NFC.

To me these are the defining numbers. The vast majority of teams going to the SB and deep in the playoffs year in and year out have QB's taken in the first round. Brady is one of the few exceptions. And most of the other successful QB's were either 2nd/3rd round picks, but only once in the last 25 years have we even drafted a QB in the top 3 rounds.
And in the last dozen years, the AFC has only had 4 QB's go to the SB: Brady, Manning, Roethlisberger and Flacco. 3 of the 4 were first round picks.

The NFC has had first round QB's in 5 of the last 12 SB's and first-third rounders in 9 of 12 :
First round: Cam, Eli (2) , Rodgers, Mcnabb
2nd round: Brees, Kaepernick
Third Round: Russell Wilson (2)
The 3 exceptions were Kurt Warner, Hasselbeck and Grossman.

I'd much rather take my chances on a first round QB than hope to get lucky later in the draft. Guys like Brady and Warner are a major rarity. Other than those two, Russell Wilson is the only non-1st rounder to go to more than 1 SB. Others like Hasselbeck and Grossman had one year runs and much of that was attributed to having great defenses.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

The NFC has had first round QB's in 5 of the last 12 SB's and first-third rounders in 9 of 12 :
First round: Cam, Eli (2) , Rodgers, Mcnabb
2nd round: Brees, Kaepernick
Third Round: Russell Wilson (2)
The 3 exceptions were Kurt Warner, Hasselbeck and Grossman.

I'd much rather take my chances on a first round QB than hope to get lucky later in the draft. Guys like Brady and Warner are a major rarity. Other than those two, Russell Wilson is the only non-1st rounder to go to more than 1 SB. Others like Hasselbeck and Grossman had one year runs and much of that was attributed to having great defenses.

I know this will seem like a shocker but Grossman was a first round QB...

 

[VA Cowboy]

I think people with mental illness really struggle with admitting or even knowing they have it. Unfortunately as an attorney I deal with my fair share of crazy people. And some of them with a medical diagnosis still refuse to accept that they have any mental illness.

It is sad.